Fancy putting Yoti - a free digital identity app to the test? iPad to be won for feedback

[AnnMumsnet]

The team at Yoti have asked us to find 500 MNers in the UK to put their a free digital identity app to the test - it’s open to all with a smartphone.

The team at Yoti say “The current way we prove who we are is outdated. It doesn’t make sense that we have to carry paper IDs and send photocopies for identity checks. It’s not right that adults can pretend to be teenage girls online etc. Yoti is here to fix that with a free app for iPhone and Android. Yoti makes it easier and safer for people to connect and share verified personal details with businesses and other people, to prove who they are and be confident in the details other people share with them - goodbye fraudsters or fake profiles.”

We are looking for testers to try out the ‘peer to peer’ aspect of Yoti before it’s officially launched later this year. This is when someone would like to check the identity of another person - for example if you were buying / selling online, wanted to check the identity of someone on a dating website, or let a tradesman into your house.

Selected testers will need to do the following:

1 Download the Yoti app (to their smartphone - either iPhone or Android)
2 Create a Yoti account (Note: after creating an account you will be prompted to add an ID document (driving licence or passport)

We then want testers to do the following:

a) Use Yoti to swap identity details with someone else - for example another Mumsnet user that you're friends with, or family member or friend (they would also need to have Yoti in order to swap details).

b) On the feedback thread, you will be asked to tell us where else (location, business) you’d love to use Yoti to prove your identity - be that proving your age on the door of a local club or the digital checkout of your nearby supermarket, your high street bank or even the local Post Office.

*Note - when Yoti is launched later this year, it will let people aged 12 upwards have a verified identity on their phone - perfect for kids that want to prove their age at the cinema (if they look young) or on public transport (if they look mature) - meaning they can leave their passports safe at home. This is subject to business that accept Yoti but things are moving fast in that space.

More info on keeping your data safe here

If you’d like to take part in this - please add your details here.

If selected, we will email you with instructions - we’d then want you to add your feedback and thoughts on a thread on MN as well as completing a survey about how family friendly the app and Yoti themselves are.

All selected testers who share feedback will be entered into a prize draw where one MNer will win an iPad (worth £500).

Thanks
MNHQ

Standard Insight T&Cs apply

Not a chance I would use this. I don't use any social media and think some people will rue the day that they put their whole lives on it with no ultimate control. As for swapping details with another MNer, so much for anonymity.

I'm thrilled they don't want to bamboozle us wimmin with technology speak - I can almost feel the metaphorical pat on the head from here

Most people who require proof of your identity have a list of specific forms this proof can take - could you list who currently accepts Yoti as proof of ID?

And yes ,being a uterus bearer does not mean that I am unable to understand technical detail.

How do they verify our passport or driving licence is genuine and actually ours?

I don't want to bamboozle you but

"take a picture of their biometric passport, capturing via NFC the cryptographic key inside the embedded chip that verifies the issuing Government’s private key. That proves the passport is real. The user then takes a selfie with the same app and facial recognition is used to score the passport and selfie images."

www.techworld.com/security/who-are-you-how-yoti-wants-solve-digital-worlds-identity-crisis-3637542/

@RicottaPancakes

Five digit pins aren't that secure really. It can be hacked into from millions of computers all over the world. My passport, on the other hand, is secure in a secret location in my house. You would have to physically break into my house to sreal it. My passport is in ONE location. Online information can be accessed from many many locations.

Message from Yoti: "Thanks for your questions. We put data security first and completely understand your concerns. None of your ID details are stored on your phone with Yoti. All personal data is stored and shared with several layers of encryption to keep it secure.

We split each piece of personal data - first name / last name / DOB etc and store it separately - we also decrypt & transmit your details separately. If a pesky hacker targeted the transmission for your details, they would only get one piece of your profile. Unless they had your phone in hand, it would take them thousands of years of todays leading computer power to break into each server and reunite your seperated details into a full profile.

In regards to holding your passport - we only hold it temporarily to transform the details into your digital identity that you control. When creating your Yoti:

• You take a secure photo of your passport / driving licence using Yoti
• We read and transform the details on your passport / driving licence into your digital identity
• We delete the picture of your passport once details are verified
• Only you have a copy of your passport
• We split each piece of data - first name / last name / DOB etc and store it separately
• Only you have the key to unite your full profile using your Yoti app
• You chose the specific details you share with businesses - securely connecting with Yoti

This means your passport can live safely at home without need for photocopies and scans to prove your identity when getting checked to rent a house etc - do the same with your driving licence and leave it at home safe too when going on nights out.

Regarding the PIN. Our 5 digit PIN access has been designed with Brute force attacks in mind:

• You get 3 attempts at your PIN before it locks.
• You then have to wait before you can try again.
• Each attempt after multiplies the wait

For more around our approach to security check out www.yoti.com/business/security/ "

@tiba

As someone who loves the convenience of Apple Pay and anything to make my life easier I still wouldn't sign up to this. I can't see how it would make my life any easier than it already is without the trust issues

Message from Yoti: "Thanks for the feedback, We're on a mission to make the lives of people that share their details online easier & safer. If you've ever just needed to prove your age & shown your passport, you’re actually showing your address, birthplace, signature & more - which leaves you open to fraud. Yoti lets you choose exactly what bits you need to share, keeping your data safe. Proving your age is also just one of the things you can do with Yoti. Yoti is the easiest way to make sure that a person you’re speaking to online is who they say they are. Very handy for anyone that uses online dating platforms or buys/sells online".

@mermaidsandunicorns

a) Use Yoti to swap identity details with someone else - for example another Mumsnet user that you're friends with, or family member or friend (they would also need to have Yoti in order to swap details).

Could you clarify this bit? Why would I swap my details with someone else. I am not at all comfortable with this!!

Message from Yoti: "Unfortunately it's very easy to pretend to be someone else online & create a fake profile. If you use online dating, buy/sell online or you’re renting out a room, in an ideal world you’d know exactly who you're talking to before meeting in person. That's where we come in. We're just suggesting other Mumsnet people simply to try Yoti for the purposes of the test".

@Srathore

I am definitely interested in reviewing this app and participating in this study. I'm a member for my loca [email protected] police department newsletter and which campaigns. Did you know that bedford is the uk number one hotspot for cyber crime and identity theft? I was shocked to read the facts about this update. I would have guessed london, manchester, Birmingham or any bigger towns and cities to be targeted rather than Bedfordshire.

Message from Yoti: "Hi Srathore, Yeah the stats can be shocking - it’s estimated that fraud cost the UK £144bn last year with 47% of fraud identity related. One thing’s for sure, it’s definitely too easy to set up fake profile online. As we said to mermaidsandunicorns, in an ideal world you would know exactly who you're talking to before meeting in person. That's where we come in!"

@DadaAndMonkey

I understand the hesitancy to adopt new ways to provide ID verification, I'm in my forties and it's hard to teach this old dog anything new.

That said, it wasn't that long ago that we paid by card with a carbon copy machine. Then they told us to use a four digit pin (less secure than a five digit one I imagine?) and now without a moments hesitation we just tap our card or even our phone to pay for our morning coffee or weekly shop.

Digital ID is coming, the Banks want it but before something can become mainstream it has to start with the end user first, on smaller applications. Proving that someone you are buying off on Facebook or eBay is genuine would be handy, as I understand it your "Yoti" is no different to the website verification certificate attached to the webpage you are viewing right now, without giving away all your personal information, you'll be able to give a pre-qualified form of ID to a stranger.

Imagine getting into a taxi on your own and know that the person driving is who they say they are.

How the company intend to store and protect your passport ID has to be explained but I imagine it will be no different to how Amazon store your credit card and address details.

More information here: www.techworld.com/security/who-are-you-how-yoti-wants-solve-digital-worlds-identity-crisis-3637542/ (I am not affiliated with Yoti or Techworld, I just spent five minutes googling the company and thought I'd share my findings).

Message from Yoti "Hey DadaAndMonkey, Thanks for taking the time to comment - There are so many use cases & we really like your Taxi analogy!

In regards to storing data & keeping information safe, when creating your Yoti:

• You take a photo or scan of your passport/driving licence using the Yoti app
• We read & transform the details on your document into a digital identity
• We then delete the picture of your passport once verified - So only you have a copy of your passport
• We split each piece of information (first name/last name/DOB etc) encrypt & store it separately
• Only you have the key to unite the details using your Yoti app

During a share request, we never send any data without several layers of encryption. Each piece of information is decrypted & then transmitted separately to keep your details safe & secure. We always put data security first.

Thanks again for taking the time to check this out & comment. Let us know what you think if you try the app!

Most people who require proof of your identity have a list of specific forms this proof can take - could you list who currently accepts Yoti as proof of ID?

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine We’re currently working with Accenture, The Deltic Group, Reed, TeachFirst, The NSPCC & Freeads to verify ID’s. Check out www.yoti.com/about/ for more info & to find out what we stand for"

@RortyCrankle

Not a chance I would use this. I don't use any social media and think some people will rue the day that they put their whole lives on it with no ultimate control. As for swapping details with another MNer, so much for anonymity.

I'm thrilled they don't want to bamboozle us wimmin with technology speak - I can almost feel the metaphorical pat on the head from here

Message from Yoti "Appreciate that Yoti is not for everyone, however making sure someone is genuine can be very important. Especially for those buying/selling online or people using online dating platforms. In regards to security & data control, we’ve built the app in a way that only you can access & share your details. We strongly believe that when if comes to your own personal details, you’re the boss. Which is why we can’t access you’re details or track your use once the account is created. Check out www.yoti.com/about/ for more info & to find out what we stand for".

@Gazelda

Hmm, I'm a bit sceptical too. I can't think why I'd want to share my identity with others, although I see merit in tradespeople having this facility. My elderly parents would still rather see a proper photographic ID card though! If we're going to have an ID type system, then I'd (probably naively) prefer it to be government managed rather than an organisation I've never heard of or who's backers I don't know about. I'll pass on this - sorry YOTI and MN.

Message from Yoti "We have data security at front of mind so completely understand why you're sceptical. Verifying tradespeople are who they say they are is a great way to use Yoti. A few more uses would be online dating, buying/selling online or renting out a room. In an ideal world you’d know exactly who you're talking to before meeting in person. That's where we come in! To find out more & to see what we stand for check out www.yoti.com/about"

Unless they had your phone in hand, it would take them thousands of years of todays leading computer power to break into each server and reunite your seperated details into a full profile

People carry they phones on their person everyday, this makes them far more likely to be lost / stolen / mugged for their identity.

Would Yoti be willing to share their SOA from their ISO certification?

My credit cards, phone, keys can all be replaced if copied, my passport cannot.

Apart from the valid concerns above, I worry about the "we are on a mission".
Is that the only motivation for doing this? How is it paid for?
Or is it a startup intended to gain value for an IPO with the identity database up for sale?

Not keen

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Unless they had your phone in hand, it would take them thousands of years of todays leading computer power to break into each server and reunite your seperated details into a full profile

People carry they phones on their person everyday, this makes them far more likely to be lost / stolen / mugged for their identity.

Message from Yoti "Losing your phone is never good. However, if you lost a device with Yoti on, without the PIN to both the phone and the Yoti app, none of your information can be accessed. On the flipside to this, if you lost your passport or even a wallet/purse with another form of ID in, someone just needs to pick it up to see all of your personal data. We always put data security & our users interests first, this is also why we do not store the image of your Passport or Driving Licence on your device. For more info & to find out what we stand for check out Yoti.com"

@MTBMummy

Would Yoti be willing to share their SOA from their ISO certification?

My credit cards, phone, keys can all be replaced if copied, my passport cannot.

Message from Yoti "We share our SOA with businesses we work with & we’d be happy to share our ISO certificate of approval".

@GladAllOver

Apart from the valid concerns above, I worry about the "we are on a mission". Is that the only motivation for doing this? How is it paid for? Or is it a startup intended to gain value for an IPO with the identity database up for sale?

Message from Yoti "Thanks for the feedback - When we launch & individuals agree to share information with an organisation (so they can prove their identity to them), Yoti charges that organisation based on the information shared. We do not charge individuals to share verified details with each other. Sorry if this was unclear from our website but we will not & can not sell anyone's personal information. After a Yoti account is set up and fully approved, we do not have access to that person's data. We simply act as the tool to let you share your verified and encrypted details. The encryption keys to access and share personal information are only accessible by the users themselves. This means only you can access & share your personal information with Yoti, putting you in control".

Thanks for the information. I'm sorry though but I'm not convinced to join up.

I still cannot get passed bank encryption. They have never been hacked have they?

You say you use the above and 5 levels where all info is stored seperatly.
This doesn't explain what encryption and don't patronise/insult is again by saying we wouldn't understand. Anyone who enters into this should understand how their data is encrypted. By not explaining and being vague it tells me it's basic.

The 5 pin also raises more concerns. I can set manually after x attempts its locked on others apps I use. Not well try again in 5 minutes or whatever. Even my sky box has better security and all anyone could spend is £3.

This then raises how is the info stored and how are you ensuring passport/driving license details are not retained.,