Live webchat with Ann Sinnott, author of Breastfeeding Older Children, Friday 26 Mar, noon-1pm

[GeraldineMumsnet]

By popular demand we have Ann Sinnott joining us for a webchat this Friday at noon.

Ann is a former magazine and newspaper journalist, who went freelance when her daughter was born. She breastfed her daughter until she was six and a half, and spent two years researching and writing Breastfeeding Older Children.

Hope you can join us on Friday 26 March. If you can't, please post your question here as usual, and Ann will do her best to get through as many as possible.

Thanks

Hello Ann - not sure if you will see my question now (hopefully I will be here tomorrow anyway but just in case!)

My son is 17 months and is not a big eater. He breastfeeds quite a lot (about 6-7 times a day, including first thing at morning and last thing at night - and we co-sleep so I don't know whether he feeds during the night but I think not any more) and a few people (my mum, some friends, and three health visitors) have expressed concern that he is not eating because he is "filling up" on breastmilk. My health visitor wants me to restrict him to only feed morning and night. I don't know what to trust - my instinct says that he would eat this little anyway (a friend of mine is stressing as her son is similar, and he self-weaned when she got pregnant again so doesn't even have milk any more) but there is this niggling doubt that maybe I am holding him back somehow! He appears healthy and is very active, and his weight seems fine to me, but they still seem to be concerned.

PuzzleRocks my DS co-sleeps with me and sleeps through, or possibly just helps himself without me noticing (!) He tends to wake up between the time that I put him to bed and go to sleep myself but recently I have been staying up later without him and he hasn't woken in between times or even been disturbed when I have gone to bed. (So has slept through even when alone and with disturbance) So I think that it's possible formula could help but it's not impossible for a breastfed baby to sleep through either.

mawbroon For how long have you been irritated by DS' feeding - is it just since the new baby came along? Perhaps he's at the age now it may be appropiate to restrict it to just morning and night? Presumably when he starts school he wouldn't be able to fit in much more than that anyway?

DownyEmerald Congratulations on feeding this far. I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Some kids are confident and some are not - it's just the way it is. Can I ask when was the last time you fed her in public?

PuzzleRocks, Re night feeds in an breastfed child. My first child was in her own room/bed at 18 months and I offered water as overnight feeds and she stopped waking up but I felt bad for reducing her milk. But being pregnant and knackered I had to try something to reduce my night time wakings.

Interestingly her younger brother has reached the same age recently and despite being breastfeed on request and co-sleeping, he has started to sleep through and not feed at night (three nights so far) with no input from me. I wonder if sleeping through the night is a preset condition they get on their own at some point like self weaning ?

Thanks Babies.

Bertie - My youngest is 11.5 mths and not a huge eater. I think this is because she still prefers milk. And still feeds often at night. She eats a good range of foods but just not a great deal. Her sister was exactly the same until she was about 20mths.
My HV, at DD2's 8 mth check, told me to drop her night feeds and she would sleep through and eat more during the day. I am very happy to ignore her "advice". If your son is healthy and his weight isn't a cause for concern then I think your instincts serve you well.

Babies - Yes, I think so too. DD2 startd sleeping through of her own accord shortly before I had her sister. Phew.
I am assuming her sister will be the same which means I have only a year or so left of unbroken sleep.
The last time I slept through was 2006.

I would love to attend the chat, but will be out unfortunately

I haven't got a specific question, but just wanted to say thank you for your work in normalising older children being breastfed and raising awareness about it.

I have the same question re solids and nutrition as puzzle and others. My 14 mo DS still bfs all the time, at least every 3 hours, night and day, and doesn't really seem interested in solids. I like to feed on demand, but I am sure if I had a big fat mug of cocoa ten minutes before lunch, I wouldn't be that interested either... should I be trying to restrict his feeds a bit, or should I just relax about the whole thing? DS is massive, nearly 12kg, and just gorgeous, so I am sure he is getting the calories, but I worry about iron etc. I don't eat a great diet myself - should I at least be taking a vitamin pill?

sophina I can't believe your experience. That must have been horrible for you. Hope you got some good advice from the nursing org that someone posted. Don't let them get away with it! This GP needs sacking or retraining at the very least.

Nice to see extended bf-ing getting positive coverage! I'm looking forward to reading your book.

Do you feel policy makers should be doing more to promote and normalise extended breastfeeding?

In Scotland, there's limited protection for mothers feeding children under 2 in public places - but why on earth did they stop at 2 years? Why can't the legislation protect all children being fed by their mum?

NHS guidance on breastfeeding - again, why 6 months? Isn't the WHO guidelines good enough for us?

Naff GP advice - have had some of this myself this week - so why not taken more seriously as a CPD issue for healthcare workers that urgently needs to be addressed?

I am a policy maker, so understand the issues are complex, but personally feel there could be a little more leadership (in the way the smoking ban has worked in Scotland and elsewhere) from Parlimanet, DoH, NHS etc. What do you think?

Thank you for coming to chat. It is good to see people making an effort to educate about breastfeeding for longer, however I think this is a difficult thing to do when overall breastfeeding rates are so low. Pre-parenthood, I think even people who are pro-breastfeeding find the idea of feeding (say) a three year old odd, whereas when you actually have a child, you feed them one day at a time.

I too agree that NHS in general needs to be much more aware/supportive etc.

I bfed DD1 to 3.6 y/o and am currently bfing 28 m/o DD2 and 23 w/o DD3. I actually contributed to your book just the stats part though .

Do you think we can get the government to issue advice to HCP to accept that some mother/child pairs will nurse to self weaning and not project their own views on to the mother?

I have been accused of forcing my then 22 m/o DD1 to nurse because I got my jollies out of it and doing it entirely for myself rather than me following DD1's lead, also the same cons. psychiatrist thought I was martyring myself for her . BTW I did insist on nursing manners & her not 'mugging' me after she pinned me down on the bed and helped so herself so I was not completely at the mercy of her .

Hello Everyone!

Am going to post questions I've dealt with in advance, will then come back shortly.

Rubyslippers
No, I never imagined that I would bfeed for so long! For me, sustained breastfeeding was a road that only unfolded as I walked on it? By the time my DD was 3mo, I began to realise I?d probably continue beyond one year, and maybe as long as two years. I decided to join LLL for solidarity and support. My LLL group was great! Among regular members, there were five of us with children about the same age and we formed a friendship that extended beyond group meetings. As 2yrs came and went, and time continued passing, these mothers and I began to speculate about how long we would continue to breastfeed. One mother said she had heard of someone who had breastfed a child until the age of six ? we were all astonished! We voiced concerns about whether or not this was good for the child and wondered about the mother?s motivation ? the usual fears and doubts of the ignorant! When my DD was approaching 4yrs, an ex-colleague from Goa (India) told me that children there were routinely breastfed for several years and even 8yrs wasn?t that uncommon. I resolved then that, provided there was nothing in my DD?s behaviour that was a cause for concern, I would continue for as long as she wanted. Which is what happened ? she had her last feed when she was six and a half.

What did I like most about sustained bfdg? Well, the avoidance of temper-tantrums was an absolute blessing! What I really liked most, however, was my DD?s happiness and serenity, and her self-confidence and ability to empathise ? she was kind toward other children and had a marked capacity for generosity and compassion, including toward me! I suspected this was all tied up with not thwarting her need to breastfeed, but there was no way of knowing for sure. As survey questionnaires for Breastfeeding Older Children came in, I found that many, many womens? comments and observations about their children echoed my own.

essenceofSES
Am afraid ttc is really outside my area of expertise. Anything I said would simply be a repetition of things I?ve read here and there, so not of great value. You need to seek advice elsewhere ? perhaps seek out a breastfeeding group with an experienced leader, or ring the LLLGB helpline (0845 120 2918)? Sorry not to be more helpful.

Clarissimo
It is when children are aged 2/3yrs that sustained bfdg is most visible and it takes supreme confidence/a thick skin/utter conviction/ great bravery (more likely a combination of all!) to breastfeed in public. This is the age that draws the hard looks and the mutterings, and even outright criticism and insults ? including from strangers [how rude!]. As they grow (some mothers manage earlier), it becomes easier to distract or negotiate deferral.

Again, my experience with my DD was echoed by many mothers in the survey. Although at 9mths she was regularly eating handfuls of cooked mashed vegetables, it wasn?t until she was 3yrs old that her appetite for solid food was firmly established. Throughout her first three years, her need for solid food varied tremendously, whereas her need for human milk remained constant. I never offered cow?s milk to her. When she tasted it at someone else?s home she didn?t like the taste, and still doesn?t ? though recently she?s taken to having a dash in coffee!

I wonder about your rule of not allowing your DS to bfd around mealtimes ? is this because you feel that this is the best way to begin the weaning process, or is it because of family pressure? Bfdg is very important to children, and young children easily sense when there are issues of any kind. Could it perhaps be that separating mealtimes from bfdg has triggered an anxiety response in your DS?

Many mothers in the survey said that attempts to engineer their children?s bfdg patterns had the opposite effect ? it made their children want to breastfeed more. When weaning is necessary [we all live in different circumstances], it needs to be a gradual process ? remember children have an innate need to continue and weaning thwarts that primordial drive, and must therefore be done with great care and gentleness, and a little guile! If you allowed him to also have breastmilk at mealtimes, you would both become more relaxed, and he would probably not clamour for your breast so much. If you combine, your DS will come to understand that it isn?t an ?either/or? situation (in that scenario he will of course choose bmilk) and will become more relaxed about both. Many mothers in the survey, who were devastated when children of 2yrs and younger ?self-weaned?, said they later realised that they had given complementary foods in a way that had undermined bfdg, ie they had bfd after solid food, instead of before. I think there?s a tip there for you. Many mothers in the survey engineered feedings in order to get pregnant and then went on to tandem-feed. Some also allowed a weaned older child to recommence feeding when the baby was born.

DownyEmerald
Even long-termers can go through a shy phase! Children are unique individuals who unfold at their own pace, and at different rates. In the survey, several women said their initially shy children later blossomed into outgoing youngsters. Unless there any contributory explanatory factors in your home, or other location your DD spends time in away from you, don?t worry ? you?re unlikely to be doing anything wrong! Accept and value your DD for who she is and don?t compare her to others.

Yes, comments about confidence, etc are anecdotal ? there?s no other type of evidence! No psychosocial adjustment research studies have been conducted on children breastfed for longer than ONE year. The anecdotal evidence that the book represents is massive ? but it doesn?t mean that children are carbon copies of each other, or stamped from a template!

Donkeyswife
Without any offence, this is one of the questions that always makes me chuckle! While adults love to talk about food and will often describe, at length, last night?s dinner, yesterday?s lunch, children don?t talk about food in this way. Yes, they will compare and swap lunch-box ingredients and enjoy their food together, and maybe occasionally briefly mention some special treat, but they don?t tend to talk about anything as ordinary as daily food. And for long-terming children, bfdg is just a normal part of their lives and (though much loved and relished) utterly ordinary! My daughter was in school for 9mths before she self-weaned, and the topic never arose. Depending on the child, once they get to 4yrs or so they tend to only feed at home ? on waking and once or twice in the evening [as they get older, it becomes twice a day, then once, then not every day, and so on] ? the practice is therefore naturally concealed. As with most women, only my family and close friends knew. So, no, no teasing for her, and no hostility toward me, though my older brother didn?t approve, and some friends did wonder? I just always maintained a bright, cheery disposition and made it clear I didn?t hold their ignorance against them! Anyway, they had the evidence of their own eyes in my DD, who was developing beautifully, and they all quietened down soon enough!

Yes, I understand the despair about cultural attitudes ? but it?s important, especially when we?re in the thick of bfdg, that we don?t despair. Mind you, the kind of comments that followed the online version of the Daily Mail article, and especially those that followed the snidey piece in Salon.com (piggy-backed on the DM version but with nothing of its value), do push me to the limit! It?s important for us to remember that cultures always evolve and attitudes change, and sometimes rapidly ? just look how far women have come in just 40yrs! Incidentally, I (and many others) believe feminism and feminist territory needs to be redefined? ? see Ch 10 in Breastfeeding Older Children.

If you want to educate your colleagues, buy and lend them a copy of BOC! ? see Ch 8 Breastfeeding and Paid Work.

dawntigga
See response to Donkeyswife. I wrote BOC to support mothers and provide them with weapons to deal with critics! Pleasingly, many have said they find it useful. ?The Cub? ? great expression! ☺

Lorelai
You know, we all have a tendency to believe that what we do is right, and I was no exception. So, given that my daughter self-weaned at six and a half, and I knew that in other countries some continued until eight years (see answer to Rubyslippers), I accepted eight as an upper limit, and was doubtful when I first heard of older ages. The turning point came for me when I was contacted by a mother who had breastfed until she was nine and spoke lovingly of her memories of breastfeeding. Then, when I subsequently learned that human milk is in use as a cancer therapy, my prejudices finally completely crumbled. It?s seems beyond bizarre that, at one end of the age-spectrum, in childhood, we deny human milk, with all its health-giving properties, and consider continuance much beyond babyhood as somehow perverse, yet, at the other end of the age-spectrum, we accept the consumption of human milk by sick adults as nothing more than scientifically interesting. There?s a connection there that needs to be made! Children?s immune systems mature at different rates, six/seven years is an average only. It?s possible that with children in these upper ages the immune system is late maturing. It is also possible that continuing to breastfeed for nine, ten, eleven years (the oldest in the survey) is the body?s way of ridding itself of an incipient illness and establishing sound health. We do not know ? because there has been no research! I would now take each case on its own merit, but would really like to have direct knowledge before I gave an opinion. Provided there is nothing worrisome about a child?s behaviour and development, I would tend to trust the child.

mawbroon
Clarissimo and Babieseverywhere have given excellent responses to your query, and my response to Clarissimo?s query also applies in some measure to your own. Finding a way to take the ?charge? out of the situation would be beneficial for all. You have both had a lot to deal with, and being pregnant can only have worsened it for you ? and you are still impaired. The separations will have unsettled DS1 and no doubt impacted on his need to bfeed, and now he also has a potential rival! He probably senses your ambivalence and this will increase his anxiety, and increase his need to bfeed. He?s probably fearful of your breast being withdrawn. So you need to take the heat out of the situation. Perhaps you could negotiate timing and number of feeds with him, making sure to let him know you are willing to continue (try to hide your ambivalence). The contrast for you between your two sucklings will be great ? many mothers spoke of the difference. Some could not bear it and weaned the older child, but many adjusted over time. You don?t say so, but if you find DS1?s suck uncomfortable [and his anxiety may well be making it stronger], you could try explaining that to him and ask him to be gentler: a mother on Facebook reported good results with this ? children can understand far more than we often give them credit for. It?s early days, so I?d give yourself more adjustment time. It may be that you will still find yourself unable to tolerate feeding both, in which case you will wean DS1 ? as I?m sure you know, gradually, gently and kindly are the watchwords.

TheButterflyEffect
I sincerely hope that BOC will help make sustained bfdg normal ? which is simply what it is!

You don?t say which aspects you disliked so it?s difficult to respond. There was great variation in the survey. Not everyone likes tandem-feeding. Some liked it at times, and not at other times. Some love it. There are no good grounds for smugness. We all live in different circumstances and no-one is really in a position to judge anyone else. Early on in the survey, I linked up a dozen or so multiple-feeders and they went off and formed a Yahoo group. I don?t know if it still exists. It certainly helps to share feelings, especially when the feelings are uncomfortable!

It?s well-known in breastfeeding circles that the incidence of sustained breastfeeding has increased tremendously over the last decade or so. The internet has no doubt played a great part in bringing mothers together to share info, advice and support. My survey revealed a wave of well-informed first-time mothers who have already decided to bfd long-term, and many said they intended to allow their child to self-wean. That?s such a contrast from when I was breastfeeding!

As we all know, breastfeeding is a fantastic mothering tool, and word spreads? BOC has now taken the lid off and shone a light on the practice. The knowledge that thousands of women in the developed world are breastfeeding long-term will, I believe, increase the incidence. In fact, I know that women, even some who haven?t read the book, have now decided not to wean, and some who aren?t yet mothers, have decided they will bfd long-term. I?m delighted for their children and would-be children!

Babieseverywhere
Thank you! So glad you enjoyed reading mothers? comments ? many have said the same. I was so often touched by what they had to say and felt so privileged to be the recipient. My one regret (oh well, perhaps there are more?!) is that the nature of the book and word-limit prevented me from using more of their narratives. Triple-feeding, eh? ☺ Many tandems and triples in BOC. When she responded, one mother was feeding four! I didn?t dwell on multiple-feeding in the book (so many aspects had to regretfully be left out), but, as you know, details of bfd/bfdg status and child ages are at the end of comments.

I really hope BOC will trigger research. Studies on physical health have to be of long-duration, but psychosocial adjustment and attachment studies can be done quickly and easily ? children either meet the benchmarks, or they don?t. The difficulties are ?political?. Sustained bfdg is a highly contentious area, as we know, so a brave academic is needed? but I believe it?s only a matter of time; though quite how long is anybody?s guess!

MrsSawdust
For general disapproval and colleagues, see responses to Clarissimo and Donkeyswife.

Your DH would find BOC helpful ? Ch 5 Fathers. Many men find the public aspect difficult to deal with, but not all do. I was heartened by just how many not only approve of sustained bfdg but encourage and support, and even champion! Many went through a transformative process to arrive at this positive state and their accounts are often moving. Fathers have an important role to play and for that reason I included many of their comments in the book.

Re my experience of disapproval ? see response to Donkeyswife. From about the age of two and a half/three my DD stopped bfdg in public ? unless she hurt herself. When I did feed her in public, I would just ignore potential disapprovers, and certainly not engage eye contact, so I guess a lot passed me by! I remember being on a train, when my daughter was about two ? an old lady was staring hard and muttering about ?teeth? and I deliberately laughed outright ? as a defence mechanism, I guess. I trusted my daughter and was convinced that allowing her to continue to bfd was the good and right thing to do, so any disapproval I met and any discomfort I felt was small in comparison and fleeting. Being in a circle of like-minded women helped, and also that I was born wilful and feisty!

Apart from with my LLL friends and group, I never talked about it! ? unless friends and family raised the topic. Comments made in media coverage of BOC, and speculations about me, though not unexpected, do make me uncomfortable ? but, in defence of mothers and children, it?s a price worth paying!

PuzzleRocks
Thankyou! Feedback like this from mothers is so heartening.

Re my public bfdg, see response to MrsSawdust. Please don?t be ashamed! ? we are all different, and deal with disapproval in different ways. The culture has over-sexualised breasts, so of course we feel uncomfortable baring our breasts [and I do mean ?we? ? I remember how exposed I felt at first]. You may or may not be more confident this time around, but don?t beat yourself up if you?re not! You need to accept yourself, just as you accept your daughters. You?ve given/are giving your children the most wonderful start in life ? however, whenever, wherever you do it!

The law reflects the UK govt?s vagueness around duration. We need to support the lobby to get the govt to fully endorse WHO recommendation, then get the law extended.

There is no link between cessation and sleeping through! My particular circumstances (and inclination) meant it was possible for me to allow my daughter to follow her own developing patterns ? it was three years before I had an unbroken night! Children older than three (and sometimes younger) do not need to bfd during the night, so they do sleep through and continue to bfd.

There is, however, a link between formula and sleeping through ? unlike easily and almost fully digested bm, manufactured substances sit heavily in the gut and take more time to pass through the alimentary process [and the great wodge at the other end shows how much remains undigested!], so the child isn?t hungry and sleeps longer. Convenient for the parents, particularly when they work outside the home ? lack of sleep can be so debilitating, but questionable for the child ? research around the issue of sleeping through is very interesting.

babymutha
Sorry to hear you are ill and I hope you get better soon.

Well, I found motherhood itself had an impact! Some ?friends?, bored with my transition to motherdom, drifted away never to return. Others stayed around, and most of these are still good friends (though see response to Donkeyswife). Motherhood catapults us into a different world and I made new friends, some of these have also remained.

Re sustained bfdg, in dealing with the concerns of friends and family, I found it helpful to remember their motivation (concern for me and my child) and their ignorance, and that they were beset with fears. This helped me not get angry. My calm certainty had an unsettling effect on them!

Knowledge is power, and knowing that thousands of other women in the developed world are bfdg long-term is empowering. The examples and information in BOC are (I?m told!) an effective tool to deal with detractors!