Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

[JuliaMumsnet]

Hello,

We're delighted to announce a webchat on the 1st February, from 12.30 to 1.30pm with Caroline Nokes MP and Stella Creasy MP about women and mothers in politics. We know that women - and particularly mums - are underrepresented in politics, and that the makeup of those walking the corridors of power affects the decisions that are made. The webchat is part of the work we’re doing to explore the barriers for women and mums and see what can be done to encourage more of them to get involved.

Caroline Nokes is the conservative party MP for Romsey and Southampton North and the current Chair of the Women and Equalities Select Committee in Parliament, where she is leading an inquiry into menopause in the workplace. Since her election in 2010 she has served as a Minister in the Department for Work and Pensions, the Cabinet Office and was Minister of State for Immigration in Theresa May’s Cabinet.

Stella Creasy is the Labour and Co-operative MP for Walthamstow in North East London. She’s worked on legal loan sharks, legalising abortion in Northern Ireland, to tackle tax evasion and the impact of the private sector on the NHS and for stronger action on violence against women and girls. Following the birth of her first child in 2019, she became the first MP to appoint a locum while she took maternity leave.

Please join us here on Tuesday 1st February at 12.30pm. If you can’t join us on the day, please leave your question here in advance.

As always, please remember our webchat guidelines - one question per user, follow-ups only if there’s time and most questions have been answered, and please keep it civil. Also if one topic is dominating a thread, mods might request that people don't continue to post what's effectively the same question or point. (We may suspend the accounts of anyone who continues after we've posted to ask people to stop, so please take note.) Rest assured we will ALWAYS let the guest know that it's an area of concern to multiple users and will encourage them to engage with those questions.

Many thanks,
MNHQ

Follow up question please.
Thank you Caroline for your response and referring to the recommendation that prisoners convicted of sexual offences should not be imprisoned in womens prisons. How has it got to this state where this is a recommendation? It should never have happened? A lot of women imprison have been abused in the past and find men in their space harmful. Why should they have to suffer this on top of having their freedom restricted?

Politics isn't about #beingKind it should be about #doingTheRightThing and #SupportingSafeguarding for vulnerable groups including women and girls.

... be kinder?!

Blue touchpaper has been lit.

ThisMumVotes sounds like an obvious starting point, but surely we don't need to investigate too much why women don't get involved? The women here have outlined the main reasons, it's not rocket science. These barriers need radical action to address. I doubt any of the main political parties really want to be that radical, though.

As an aside, the name "ThisMumVotes" came across to me as a campaign about getting women (mums only?) out to vote in elections, rather than stand as candidates themselves.

Do you not think that science, and biology in particular, are important issues in the problems that women have in progressing in careers and life in general, and in being murdered by men? And that trans women do not have exactly the same issues?

Won't make me popular but I recognise natal women and those who identify as women - and I think we all need to be just a little bit kinder

recognise in what way? Nobody says they don't recognise transwomen but they are different to natal women and that difference is what needs to be recognised. Do you and Caroline recognise that point?

As for women in politics, that is not going to happen until the abuse targeted at women is dealt with effectively. So many women left the Commons at the last election. What do you both suggest to stop this?

Just popped in to register my great concern and disappointment at the focus and output of the ‘Women’ and Equalities Select Committee.

Women are not a subset.

Caroline - If you knew that the majority of people in this country do not agree with self-ID and many of them have legitimate concerns about it would you still push for it? And if so, why?

Do both those categories have the same political interests?

Won't make me popular but I recognise natal women and those who identify as women - and I think we all need to be just a little bit kinder

Do you at least recognise sex? Are females entitled to single-sex spaces and services where appropriate?

SC: lets' be kind
CN: I think we all need to be just a little bit kinder.

No, thank you.
I'm disappointed in you. I'm not reading any more, I've got better things to do.
(Sorry to be rude to your guests MN)

@BurlyShriggs

Can’t get into talk now - my question to both is: How in your view can women’s rights and needs best be addressed?

By making sure we have women involved in decision making at every level. I was really angry / disappointed that when PM was in hospital the "quad" taking decisions on his behalf was all male. That is how you end up with decisions around childcare being locked down, and grandparents banned from childcare, because women who needed to work but were also mothers were forgotten.

I recognise natal women and those who identify as women - and I think we all need to be just a little bit kinder.

Do those who 'identify as women' need to be kinder to 'natal women' or does this kindness just flow in one direction, i.e. the old fashioned one way sexist same old same old direction?

Asking for a rights-hoarding dinosaur?

Won't make me popular but I recognise natal women and those who identify as women - and I think we all need to be just a little bit kinder.

What does identifying as a woman mean?

What are they identifying with?

Is it being kind to young female athletes if we let male athletes compete in their categories? Is it being kind to female rape survivors if we can't guarantee them single sex victim support?

I think "be kind" the current equivalent of "know your place".

Adds nothing in terms of policy or resolution.

Perhaps you need to be kind to girls and tell them that they are fully human and not ideas in the minds of men.

@UltraVividLament

ThisMumVotes sounds like an obvious starting point, but surely we don't need to investigate too much why women don't get involved? The women here have outlined the main reasons, it's not rocket science. These barriers need radical action to address. I doubt any of the main political parties really want to be that radical, though.

As an aside, the name "ThisMumVotes" came across to me as a campaign about getting women (mums only?) out to vote in elections, rather than stand as candidates themselves.

Hi Ultra - this mum votes is explicit about getting more mums to stand for office and addressing the barriers to do that before during and after selection and election. We're at an early stage of organising so bear with us - we want to hear about the barriers that women say they face, especially with children and to challenge the political parties to tackle these issues rather than expecting mums to over come them. We're also working in a partisan way to support women within political parties to stand too so if you are a member of a political party you can get involved in that work.

How do you propose supporting gender critical women to express their expressly protected beliefs in places of education, the workplace, in public and in civic society without fear of police involvement as occurred with Marion Millar, Nicola Murray and with recent events in Newport?

@lamujerenfadada

Alot of the discussions around sex/gender in policy and law revolve around the fact the Gender Recognition Act and the Equalities Act are so badly worded, conflating the terms sex and gender throughout. It has allowed lobby groups to misinterprete the law and get policy changed throughout the country.

Is there any will in Government to rewrite these laws for clarity to help take some of the heat out of the debate?

The honest answer to the question around appetite is, in my view, no. And that is part of the problem, when terms get conflated you get confusion. But you are so right about needing to take heat out of the debate. I always point out I am not "in" Government, as a Select Committee Chair it is my duty to scrutinise and hold to account.

fwiw think there's agreement across parliament that so often women aren't in the room - or expected to be quiet when in the room, or ONLY talk about children- so that we're seen not as equal representatives but lobbyists for particular causes. Want to put on record how strong Caroline has been in calling that out and that it happens in all parties!

I think women are done with being kind

Thank you for your answer, Ms Noakes. However I'm afraid I disagree. We cannot have a proper discussion on women in parliament if we do not define what a woman is. Part of the historical and ongoing reasons that we have such poor representation is, in my view, rooted in sex based discrimination. The sort of discrimination that says to girls, basically from birth, that they are lesser than boys. Less intelligent, less capable. That what they need to focus on is being "good" and "polite" and "quiet.". This is sex based oppression and it starts from birth. It strays into "gender ideas" only insofar as it ascribes characteristics to women and girls on the basis of their sex. Nobody is saying that to little boys - however they grow up to define themselves. They have other problems arising from the patriarchy, but it is not this.

But as my follow up question, directly arising from your response - if your view is that trans women are women and we should be encouraing them to become MPs as part of encouraging all women to be MPs, then do you believe that a parliament made up of 50% male MPs and 50% trans women MPs is an equal parliament of men and women? And if not, why not, since that would be the logical conclusion from your answer?

What are the priorities the police should be following to secure women’s safety?

Aggressively policing a meeting to commemorate a woman murdered by a police colleague?

Arresting a disabled woman in her home and questioning her about stickers highlighting the importance of women only spaces?

Ensuring that men who are charged with violence and assault against their partner are detained when they fail to appear for a bail hearing so that they then don’t attack and kill their partner several weeks later?

@Akela64

I think "be kind" the current equivalent of "know your place".

Adds nothing in terms of policy or resolution.

Perhaps you need to be kind to girls and tell them that they are fully human and not ideas in the minds of men.

No - it is aimed at raising the level of debate - we get nowhere by shouting at each other - you can see that in the Commons Chamber every single day. Much of the constructive work of Parliament goes on in Westminster Hall where we have much more consensual debates, and those with different views actually get to debate as opposed to looking for the clippable soundbite.

It's always, always women who are told they must be "kinder". Where is the kindness to women? Where is the kindness to women in prison? Where is the kindness to raped women who can't access their local Rape Crisis Centre any more because it has men there? Where is the kindness to lesbians who want to state that its OK to only experience same-sex (not same-gender) attraction?

Meanwhile men send us pictures of themselves holding knives, threaten to rape and murder us, and get away with it.

Flipping Nora, how many times will women (adult human females) be told to be chuffing kind when expressing concern for their sex based rights??

No.