Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

[JuliaMumsnet]

Hello,

We're delighted to announce a webchat on the 1st February, from 12.30 to 1.30pm with Caroline Nokes MP and Stella Creasy MP about women and mothers in politics. We know that women - and particularly mums - are underrepresented in politics, and that the makeup of those walking the corridors of power affects the decisions that are made. The webchat is part of the work we’re doing to explore the barriers for women and mums and see what can be done to encourage more of them to get involved.

Caroline Nokes is the conservative party MP for Romsey and Southampton North and the current Chair of the Women and Equalities Select Committee in Parliament, where she is leading an inquiry into menopause in the workplace. Since her election in 2010 she has served as a Minister in the Department for Work and Pensions, the Cabinet Office and was Minister of State for Immigration in Theresa May’s Cabinet.

Stella Creasy is the Labour and Co-operative MP for Walthamstow in North East London. She’s worked on legal loan sharks, legalising abortion in Northern Ireland, to tackle tax evasion and the impact of the private sector on the NHS and for stronger action on violence against women and girls. Following the birth of her first child in 2019, she became the first MP to appoint a locum while she took maternity leave.

Please join us here on Tuesday 1st February at 12.30pm. If you can’t join us on the day, please leave your question here in advance.

As always, please remember our webchat guidelines - one question per user, follow-ups only if there’s time and most questions have been answered, and please keep it civil. Also if one topic is dominating a thread, mods might request that people don't continue to post what's effectively the same question or point. (We may suspend the accounts of anyone who continues after we've posted to ask people to stop, so please take note.) Rest assured we will ALWAYS let the guest know that it's an area of concern to multiple users and will encourage them to engage with those questions.

Many thanks,
MNHQ

Question for Stella - Does she agree with David Lammy's assertion that women who voice their concerns about the impact of redefining "woman" to include males are "rights-hoarding dinosaurs"?

This is for Stella Creasy - you are currently pushing for misogyny to be made a hate crime, but you are including males who identify as women in the group who experience misogyny. I feel, as a woman who has endured various levels & types of misogynistic abuse & harassment throughout my life, this is an insult to women & belittles what it is that we endure - to suggest that males who claim to be women have the experiences we do, or any idea what that's like.

Is it misogyny for a male CEO of a Rape Crisis Centre to report a woman to the police for publicity stating that the support service she runs for women who have suffered miscarriage or forced abortion, is female only & will always be female only, as per the single sex exceptions in the EA2010? To me, this spiteful act is the very essence of what misogyny is. Do you think it's misogyny for women to be targeted & reported to the police for posting stickers or ribbons, defending our sex based rights?

Do you think you will be actually helping women address the overwhelming hatred men & males of a variety of claimed gender identities have for women, by making women the target of accusations of misogyny if they do any of the things listed above?

I really don't believe you've considered the real harm you will do.

I am an autistic woman.

Over the past few years, I have been absolutely shocked by the number of autistic women and girls who are now identifying as transgender. I believe that many of these women and girls are being coerced/ groomed into a adopting a trans identity.

Do you agree that this is a cause for concern? If not, why not?

I would like to thank Stella Creasy for speaking up and out in regards to decriminalising abortion in Northern Ireland. I'd like to know what her views are on the current state of access to abortions in NI and how the DUP especially are dragging their heels in implementing it.

Perhaps both Stella and Caroline could let us know what sex mostly has abortions? I'm fed up hearing about "people" accessing services when they mean women.

[quote ADisgruntledPelican]@PyjamasOClock that's such a good point. I do a lot of online work for my local party but for health reasons can't go leafleting or mind stalls. But there's a lot of emphasis on those tasks and that level of visibility.

Then the older men wonder why they see lots of female members at online meetings but not at events or not standing. They don't acknowledge or understand the caring commitments that primarily fall to women too. See - sex impacting on everything again![/quote]
Ive said this to councillors before, but was told outright they didn't want to change to online meetings.

How are single women with young children supposed to attend meetings at 7pm midweek?

Women of child rearing age are the most underrepresented group in politics at just about every level.

We keep hearing all about this diversity stuff, but there is NOTHING that acknowledges the particular problems of women of this age.

It actually doesn't help to see women in parliament with babies, because what happens is you just get people saying 'well she did it', fundamentally missing the point that you have to be a driven career politician with support to do that.

That means there's thousands of women who might consider doing it, but the way into politics is just a non starter. And the abuse both within and outside politics is just the icing on the cake that kills off the idea completely. There aren't 'ordinary young women' going into politics as a result.

My experience of speaking to local councillors who are male has been out right patronising. I've had conversations about standing for election with them (was asked to stand) but they were tone deaf and patronising and pretty much wanted me there to make themselves look better and weren't actually interested in anything I had to say. Every public political type event I've been to, I've been talked down to in a appalling fashion by old white males. The tokenism they want is deeply problematic because they effectively gate keep the women they want and then make it difficult for everyone else.

I genuinely don't think i would have a voice even if I did stand, because of the sexism Ive experienced without even getting involved. They will only put you forward if you dance to their tune anyway.

That means 'don't do feminism because it will put off lots of the votes' or 'i think this is a niche subject'. Things that affect women most are simply not regarded as priority issues. Who is deciding that and how is it decided. If things aren't given time for debate or press coverage then they just get shoved underneath the carpet. Its notable that metoo came out of grassroots protests because if inaction by authority and because authority and abuse of power was precisely part of the problem. Its not come from those in public office leading the charge.

Sexism exists in invisible ways as well as the more obvious ones and i fundamentally don't think women are well represented by the women who do stand as a result of a combination of a multitude of little things.

I know this isn't a question but given what someone else has said given the context of this chat and because it somewhat relates to my question above. I really think its something I feel massively need to get off my chest because it deeply troubles me and it deeply frustrates me.

I just dont feel women are able to represent themselves on their own terms and those women that do have a role in politics are inhibited by parties or fear of abuse or having their career damaged.

Its utterly appalling how many women from different parties have left front line politics in recent years citing the same things over and over again.

Its not just that I don't feel represented by the political parties. Its that I don't think there are many people 'like me' in politics at any level. My parish council doesn't have any women under 40. Neither does my Borough Council. We've not had a female candidate for any party for a general election since 2010 (thats 3 elections now) and even she wasn't local and was a career politician parachuted in.

I don't think my area is unusual by any means.

You just get to thinking 'whats the fucking point anyway? ' in being involved at any level cos you pretty much get bullied out or pushed out / limited by practicalities.

The whole culture of boorishness and jeering is institutionalised from top to bottom. It doesn't suit women who tend to be more collaborative and constructive rather than 'them v us' which is the party dynamics of British politics.

The whole damn thing stinks to high heaven.

And this is a layer on top of the deepening sense of corruption and lack of trust with politics more generally.

I'm sick of the generic political wet 'oh we've done this and we've done that' response to avoid the difficult questions that politicians want to dodge. These are always m tiny and inconsequential in the scheme of thinsg and dont even touch the sides and quite frankly I just think its lip service at this point. Its like women have to be grateful for the crumbs off the political table that they are given.

If you want to be radical, then you need to be looking at things like financial support for people (particularly women) with children to have childcare whilst forfilling an elected role - at all levels. Not just at Westminster. I don't really care about babies in the chamber either way. Not when there is childcare available, and thats a damn site more than the rest of us get. Without proper thought to childcare at every level, the door will always be closed to many in so many things. Thats not going to happen and things aren't going to change anytime soon. Certain issues will never be deemed important precisely because they never get proper representation. Tokenism isn't going to get 'ordinary' people into politics and change the structurial dynamics that institutionalise sexism in politics from top to bottom.

But there is no incentive or political will to do this.

As a rule, women are less likely to vote than men. It isn't rocket science to work out why.

Stella - Twitter moderators frequently remove accounts of people who raise concerns about the negative effects of gender ideology on women and children, yet do not sanction accounts of those people who harass and threaten others (almost always women) with violence. I believe this leads to a wider societal belief that violence against women is acceptable yet women having opinions isn’t. What can we do to change this?

Would a parliament of 50% men and 50% transwomen provide ‘gender’ parity and fairly represent the interests of the electorate. If not why not?

It's very interesting that you both started as local councillors - the public often forget that politicians don't go straight into Westminster. How was being a councillor for you? How can the relationship between national and local government be improved? Do you think women have a particular role to play in that? What role can MPs play in encouraging more women to stand for local election this May? What is your encouraging message to Mumsnet viewers? Thank you!

Hello Stella and Caroline . If you had one message to women/mums interested but unsure about standing as a councillor or MP, what would it be?

I realise this is a second Q but I think it's relevant & important.

To Stella (again) do you think the abuse & harassment of Rosie Duffield is based in misogyny & do you think the lack of any visible support from her party leader & colleagues helps her or encourages more harassment? Is there a reason you haven't shown any support for Rosie yourself? Is it helpful for women who are thinking of entering politics to see a woman attacked the way Rosie has been, while also noting the lack of any solidarity from her female colleagues?

Do you think misogyny on the left is 'better' for women than misogyny from the right?

I have more than one question, but this is the pressing one, currently.

Given that 98% of all sex crimes are committed by men and that over 60% of women in prison have been the victims of domestic violence and already have head injuries as a result, how, in the 21st-century, can you justify the awful misogyny of giving male rapists and sex offenders access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence, and forcing women into confined spaces with sex offenders, with no hope of escape, as part of theirs?

Why are the rights of 1-2% percent of the population more important than the rights of women? I do not identify as a CIS woman, I am simply a woman. Why am I being described as CIS or a person with a uterus or a person who menstruates to appease this minority? What are men not identified as CIS or people who produce seamen?

Why does your party leader think we should not state basic facts such as only women have a cervix or only women give birth?

To both: I think it will impossible to understand the context and proper content of any answers you may provide on women and mothers in politics without an answer to a question posed by others already:

How do you, personally, define a woman?

Not a question but an observation.

I think it'll be particularly discouraging for women who are thinking of entering politics if the 2 women MPs who are coming to this chat fail to engage with women on what is clearly a significant issue for women. It serves no one to fail to see clearly that this is of significant concern for women, with the EHRC confirming women's concerns are legitimate. Politicians who continue to evade the issue serve only to foment an already toxic arena for women, and the public sphere is already toxic enough with, ironically, endemic levels of hatred of women.

I'd certainly like to see both politicians actually sincerely engage.

Why haven't the Labour party got a policy on tackling the biggest act of civil disobedience in modern times, the non payment or underpayment of maintenance by financially abusive non resident parents (mostly fathers)?

It's so obvious who has power and who doesn't when women are awarded maintenance rates of £5 per week for TWO children (yes, that's what I was supposed to get, which is rarely paid) then get charged to use the chocolate teapot equivalent of the CSA, when the majority of lone parents don't get their maintenance paid, but very few men get sent to prison for it.

Meanwhile a third of women prisoners ate there for non payment of the BBC licence fee, locked up with rapists from whom they literally can't escape.

And Labour has nothing to say about it except "don't mention the war (on women)"

As a mother of an adult daughter with learning disabilities I'd like to ask what they can do about medical notices describing women as people with a uterus, a Cervix etc and not including the word woman. My daughter knows she is a woman but not what those body parts are and even if they are male or female parts.

Please can they do something to make this clearer for adults with disabilities.

Don't know if I'm allowed another one but here's one for Stella Creasy.

I have been a Labour Party member for many years - probably longer than you have, in fact. In recent years, I have seen Rosie Duffield receive horrible misogynistic abuse from Labour Party members - and not receive any support from the party leadership. I have seen David Lammy refer to feminists like me as "dinosaurs". I have seen Lisa Nandy and Angela Rayner sign a petition calling for the expulsion of women like me, who believe in biological reality, from the party. I have seen Nandy say that a man convicted of raping children should be housed alongside vulnerable female prisoners if he claims to be a woman.

I no longer recognise this as the Labour Party that once meant so much to me. It is a party that seems to hate women, in particular those of us who stand up for the most vulnerable women in society.

So here's the question, Stella: are you able to give me one good reason why I should remain a member?

It's quite telling that there is sudden interest in making misogyny a hate crime when something that benefits males can be piggy backed onto it
Why are female politicians so afraid to speak out in support of women?

As some posters have already noted, this conversation will be completely pointless unless Caroline and Stella first define their understanding of the word 'woman'.

Is female an identity to be worn and removed at will, a feeling in a man's head, pink and glitter and subservience and makeup? Or is it a biological reality that shapes the lives of 51% of the world's population?

No need for me to ask my question, it's the same one 98% of posters have already asked.

I want a proper answer.

Do you believe that access to a full range of contraceptive options is currently adequate & meets needs?

Do you think these services should primarily be focused on people with the types of bodies with the potential to gestate?
If so what should we call those people?

This seems unlikely to go well!

I know so many acrive, politically engaged, progressive women desperate for a political home to put their energies into, but when they see how their own parties treat the likes of Rosie Duffield and Joanna Cherry, there is just nowhere to go.

Dear Stella and Caroline - whether or not you agree with them on the subject of sex versus gender, will you at least say here, in public, that they have every right to speak out and still remain party members, and should not be subject to harassment and abuse for their views?