Webchat with family law barrister Paula Rhone-Adrien on Monday 13 July, 7.30-8.30pm

[BojanaMumsnet]

Hello

We’re pleased to announce another webchat with Paula Rhone-Adrien, a family law barrister with over two decades of experience, practising from Lamb Building Chambers. You can read her previous webchat here.

Paula will be able to answer questions about the divorce process during lockdown, as well as more general questions about family law, including financial protection, emotional self-care, custody arrangements and domestic abuse.

Paula regularly attends Court representing clients across the social spectrum, from
the Magistrates' Court to the Court of Appeal, in a range of areas including: divorce
and finances; disputes between parents regarding where their child should live or
how much time they should spend with the other; the region/country a child should
live in; child welfare, be that the concerns of social services regarding negligent
parenting (sexual, physical or emotional abuse) or one parent accusing the other;
and domestic abuse (representing the alleged victim or the alleged perpetrator).

Paula is a BBC Expert Voice and has worked with a number of broadcast networks and TV production companies in the UK. You can listen to Paula on this episode on marriage on BBC Woman’s Hour.

Post your questions on this thread or join us live on Monday 13 July, 7.30 - 8.30pm.

Please note any answers from Paula will be the general stance taken by the Family Courts as opposed to specific to the individual’s case - and please do not include any names or anything that could identify where the person/child lives.

As always, please remember our guidelines - one question per user, follow-ups only if there’s time and most questions have been answered, and please keep it civil. Also if one topic is dominating a thread, mods might request that people don't continue to post what's effectively the same question or point. (We may suspend the accounts of anyone who continues after we've posted to ask people to stop, so please take note.) Rest assured we will ALWAYS let the guest know that it's an area of concern to multiple users and will encourage them to engage with those questions.

Many thanks,
MNHQ

Good evening everyone!!

Thank you so much to everyone who has sent me a question. I am going to work hard to respond to everyone in our allotted time, but I am sure I will be back again soon if I can't get to you all in time.

Please remember, my answers have to be general as I do not know the specific facts of your case.

Let's get started!

Good evening Atadaddicted, thank you very much for your query.

You don’t say in your question whether your financial settlement granted any spousal maintenance (or periodical payments) to you.

So let’s break it down: if your financial settlement DID NOT make provision for this - that there was a clean break, then the short general answer to your question is no, the case will not be revisited on the basis of what you have told me. There are some cases where the Court will reopen a settlement, for example, if there was fraud or misrepresentation, but that isn’t the case here.

If your financial settlement DID MAKE provision for you to receive an income from your ex then there is normally provision in the agreement for you to make an application to vary (by way of increasing - and of course decreasing, if it is argued that the sum paid can no longer be afforded) the amount.

You will need to read your settlement and identify whether there was provision for you to make an application to vary and/or even if there was provision for you to do this, whether time has now elapsed (a time bar is often added to orders to restrict a party’s ability to come back to Court after a certain period of time)

In every case the court must consider a termination of maintenance - so be warned! The Court’s want you to transition to independence as soon as it is just and reasonable for you to do so. A period of time will be considered unless you would be unable to adjust without undue hardship to the ending of payments. Again, be warned, the Courts are not that sympathetic to you suffering some hardship during that transition to independence.

The court will have regard to all the circumstances of the case, first consideration being given to the welfare, while a minor, of any child of the family who has not attained the age of eighteen, any disability they may have(!) and the circumstances of the case shall include any change in any of the matters to which the court was required to have regard when making the original order to which the application relates. Having said that the Court will look at the matter afresh, taking into account both your current positions and applying the Court’s discretion in light of the particular circumstances of your case

If you did decide to try and vary the maintenance then both parties would have to provide updating information regarding there finances - so yes, you would get to see the wage slips and visa versa.

You then asked a second question …”My child has Recently been diagnosed with Adhd and there will be significant financial consequences to this in terms of support etc.
What can be done to secure contribution from my ex?”

This is a tricky question as I would need to know whether you already had an Order in place regarding your child - in which case an application could be made for it to be varied in light of the new information. If there wasn't such an order and the matter is being dealt with via the CMS, then there is little the Court would want to do to intervene, but the Court could use that as a reason to increase your maintenance.

I hope that helps and I sincerely wish you and your son all the best.

Warm regards

Paula

Good evening Claliscool,

Thank you for your question, it raises so many common problems that parents have to grapple with all the time in Court.

So sorry to hear about your difficulty.

In short, there is an Order in place and so absolutely your ex is in breach of it if it makes provision for telephone contact to occur whilst the children are with him. You don't say how old the children are, but one assumes it is inappropriate for them to have their own phone.

In any event the last thing you want to do is put your children in the middle of an adult dispute.

Forgive me if I am patronising you, but have you attempted to understand why your ex refuses the contact? I appreciate he just could be being unreasonable, but if there is a reason then ask him whether together you could devise away to overcome it. Do this in writing to ensure a clear paper trail!

The Court will expect to see that you have made every attempt to ‘mediate’ an issue before going back to Court.

…I have to ask, but could you manage without the telephone contact? For example, (obviously depending on their age) could you happily send them to their Father with some little cards that they can open from you at the end of each day? Or get them to keep a journal or draw a picture in their shiny glitter covered/dinosaur emblazoned colouring book? Just something that will allow them to spend some time at the end of, no doubt, a wonderful day with their father knowing that you are thinking of them and that they can show you on their return?

Of course you can represent yourself! Lots and lots and lots of people do. There are various supports actually available at Court who can also assist you with navigating your way around a court room and will even come into Court and sit with you whilst you make your representations to the Judge (the support won’t be able to speak on your behalf though). Check out www.supportthroughcourt.org - this sport is FREE!

Good luck

Paula

Good afternoon Gobbolinothewitchscat, (I had to copy and paste this name! :-) )

Firstly, thank goodness your friend has you! Friends are actually a really good source of support and are generally a lot more practical and realistic than the friend who is obviously emotionally caught up in the sad case.

So launching straight into a response: If your friend attended the PSO (prohibited steps order) court hearing and told the Judge that she would like to also make an oral application for the child to live with her and spend time with the father, then usually the Court will take sympathy and just include it as part of the case. Some Judge’s will expect your friend to make a formal application (electronically online, which costs money of course), but it's worth asking and I am sure no one will be surprised if she does! Regardless, the hearings would be heard ‘at the same time’ ..and re your last question - Absolutely!

Good luck

Paula

Good evening cakemeupbeforeyougogo (Victoria sponge all the way!),

Thank you for your question, which I have had to update a Judge on recently too.

So in short the answer is yes…even if an ‘asset’ is abroad and whether you think it belongs in the matrimonial pot or not - the Court will want to know the value of everything before a decision is taken as to whether and how it should be divided. Foreign pensions are a little tricky because although the Court now has the power to make a pension sharing order against an international fund, the order may be worthless if that foreign jurisdiction doesnt recognise it. The only way you can be absolutely certain of this is if you liaise with a family practitioner in New Zealand who can communicate with the fund and ascertain their position (which should then be put in writing) and advise you on the law in respect of 'mirror orders'.

I hope that helps!

Warm regards

Paula

Hi
Im due my little girl in a few weeks but the babies father is stressing me over visitation which I guess is fair enough.

I have said he is welcome to see her at mine and I Can bring her over to his to see her when he pleases (baring in mind she is not even here yet)
I have said I wouldn't be comfortable leaving her until she's maybe 1?
His mum is very obsessive and has the idea in her head she will have her a lot and get to take her to see her friends etc.
He's decided he wants to take legal matters as he expected to be able to have her during his 2 weeks paternity from when she was born?

I just feel so pressured and feel as if they all think I'm growing her for them to just take? I was wondering if it went to court what is most likely to happen? He works 8-4 weekdays and will be doing night shifts and weekends soon. I've said he's welcome to come and see her whenever he wants I'm just not comfortable not being with her?

Thank you so much

Good evening Windyjuly,

Thank you for your warm welcome!

I am going to take each of your points in turn to make sure I don’t miss anything:

“Apparently, if they used to see the gc, they have more sway in demanding they see them in future. Is this true”?

In short, no. No one has a ‘right’ to spend time with a child, although it would be a very persuasive argument to say to a Court that you were spending x amount of time with this child a week or a month before the parent stopped you.

“My husband doesn't speak to them and ended up in therapy due to them. If they ever took us to court, could they demand to see them?”

I am so sorry I don't really understand this question so bear with me……

So sorry to hear about your husband, I sincerely hope he is feeling better. I'm going to take it that your husband no longer speaks to the GC? If so then this is such a shame and I hope that in time there is some way that you can bring everyone back together again. In a family law context, I am not clear how “they” could take you to Court - it would be you making an application to spend time with them (applying for a Child Arrangements Order, which grandparents absolutely can apply to do).

I'm not sure I helped so please try and leave another question if you see this response in time!

All the best

Paula

If you Co-own a property with an ex partner who you have had to leave due to DV and they have remained in the property, what can you do? I have been told as not married it would have to go to civil court and as he has always paid the mortgage it would be granted as ‘his’, I feel stuck, financially tied to an abusive ex by a property I can neither live in or claim a share off, put whose value and deeds with my name on prevent me from claiming any financial help so I can rehome myself and DC elsewhere. Is there anything I can do?

@PaulaRhoneAdrien

Good evening Atadaddicted, thank you very much for your query.

You don’t say in your question whether your financial settlement granted any spousal maintenance (or periodical payments) to you.

So let’s break it down: if your financial settlement DID NOT make provision for this - that there was a clean break, then the short general answer to your question is no, the case will not be revisited on the basis of what you have told me. There are some cases where the Court will reopen a settlement, for example, if there was fraud or misrepresentation, but that isn’t the case here.

If your financial settlement DID MAKE provision for you to receive an income from your ex then there is normally provision in the agreement for you to make an application to vary (by way of increasing - and of course decreasing, if it is argued that the sum paid can no longer be afforded) the amount.

You will need to read your settlement and identify whether there was provision for you to make an application to vary and/or even if there was provision for you to do this, whether time has now elapsed (a time bar is often added to orders to restrict a party’s ability to come back to Court after a certain period of time)

In every case the court must consider a termination of maintenance - so be warned! The Court’s want you to transition to independence as soon as it is just and reasonable for you to do so. A period of time will be considered unless you would be unable to adjust without undue hardship to the ending of payments. Again, be warned, the Courts are not that sympathetic to you suffering some hardship during that transition to independence.

The court will have regard to all the circumstances of the case, first consideration being given to the welfare, while a minor, of any child of the family who has not attained the age of eighteen, any disability they may have(!) and the circumstances of the case shall include any change in any of the matters to which the court was required to have regard when making the original order to which the application relates. Having said that the Court will look at the matter afresh, taking into account both your current positions and applying the Court’s discretion in light of the particular circumstances of your case

If you did decide to try and vary the maintenance then both parties would have to provide updating information regarding there finances - so yes, you would get to see the wage slips and visa versa.

You then asked a second question …”My child has Recently been diagnosed with Adhd and there will be significant financial consequences to this in terms of support etc.
What can be done to secure contribution from my ex?”

This is a tricky question as I would need to know whether you already had an Order in place regarding your child - in which case an application could be made for it to be varied in light of the new information. If there wasn't such an order and the matter is being dealt with via the CMS, then there is little the Court would want to do to intervene, but the Court could use that as a reason to increase your maintenance.

I hope that helps and I sincerely wish you and your son all the best.

Warm regards

Paula

So helpful. Thank you

No order in place for son.

Generally amicable with ex so we sorted the child arrangements between ourselves.

Finances - global maintenance.

Good evening WittyWhitty,

Such a lovely welcome, thank you!

A very common problem at the moment as I am sure you can imagine.

So legally as there is no order in place you are free to do whatever you think is best. You have very sensitively offered indirect contact…I wonder, is it possible to offer some direct contact, may be at a park or in your garden - if this was something that would be comfortable for you and your daughter?

I assuming you have explained your concerns to your ex, but have you tried writing him a card expressing your concerns and the ways in which you are trying to deal with the issue amicably? It’s always really good to have a written record of attempts to deal with an issue in a conciliatory fashion.

If this were before a Judge and there was an Order in place the Judge would expect you to comply with the Order, however, the Judge would also very much expect your ex to comply with the government guidelines and it is likely if you proved he was not, that the Court would suspend the contact.

I say this not because I want you to feel ‘right’ or justified, but so that you understand what the general legal approach is to such problems. However, you are the only one who knows how much your daughter is missing her father, and not a Judge.

Each case will obviously be considered on its own specific facts, but the reason why I am asking you to explore within yourself whether there are other steps you can take or things the Father can do with his daughter that wouldn't bring her into harms way, is always worth a try before heading back to Court.

Is your daughter back at school - she will be come September and so the likelihood is, as the lockdown restrictions ease (currently up to bubbles of 30 for a wedding!) your daughter’s father will have an expectation that contact will resume to what was normally occurring.

Please don’t think for a second I dont understand your anxiety!

I sincerely wish you the best.

Paula

Good evening Songsofexperience (such a thought provoking tag!)

I won’t apologise for the breakdown of your marriage…. everything eventually comes to an end…, this is about your reaction to such a sad experience. You really do have a choice about how you can move forward. I hope you reach that point with as little consternation as possible.

I’ve lifted the questions from your piece to ensure I don't miss anything.

“Is there anything I can do to prevent him from deserting us financially?”

Short answer is yes in the short term, but it means you have to move quickly and it is expensive. It will be too hard for you to navigate this area of law without a well informed solicitor to hand, to at least advise you and to help you complete the relevant forms (if you felt confident to represent yourself at Court) and navigate this complicated area of law.

What are my options?

You have them, but they are complicated. Seriously please go and get some legal advice - fast! If you are worried about the actions your husband threatens will actually be taken (becuase of course he may be bluffing - seriously where is he going to go?) then you will need a solicitor to move fast to protect the various bank accounts that you think exist.

“We have a joint property and a substantial mortgage which he has refused to pay off over the years. Instead, he's put money into various savings accounts, most in his name only”.

The fact that the accounts are mostly in his name means nothing if you can persuade the Court that the monies were part of the matrimonial pot. This is a very normal feature of money cases.

“I’d rather be poor than in such an unhappy marriage but ideally, I'd like to find a fair arrangement!”

If you go down the legal route it is going to be expensive so I ask you to think about this: you know that your marriage has ended, so what is the rush? Write a list - and yes I mean it - write a list of what needs to be sorted today, tomorrow, at the end of the week, etc etc.

Our brain is excellent at making us worry about things that can quite frankly wait! I appreciate you are worried that your husband will do X and he will do y, but you know him better than anyone. He has you frightened at the moment and so fear is driving your decision making.

Take a breath, think about what you want to happen and then do it in a planned and purposeful way. That isn't legal advice - just one human speaking to another.

“Not sure where to start. I have to consider the option that he's not bluffing.”

You have already started…give yourself some credit, please!

It is always worth getting some free legal advice, some solicitors will offer 30 minutes or even if you paid for an hour's worth, particularly in your case. Yes you may get the hard sell, but if you take a note pad and pen, you can walk away from the meeting and then look back over your notes giving yourself time to breathe and think about your next move.

Good luck

Paula

How would my partner go about adopting my daughter? Biological dad is not allowed a y contact due to a court order. He hasnt seen my daughter in 6 years.

Good evening nowtimeforme (couldn’t agree with you more!)

Thank you, really interesting question.

Ok so in short, you can agree whatever you like, as long as the Judge can be persuaded that you came to that agreement having received independent legal advice on the ramifications of the agreement and that you are prepared to sign it off to that effect. Your marriage is short in terms of length (not me saying that, but how the Courts would view it!) and the agreement seems simple and based upon reasonable foundation.

However, your ex is walking away with nothing (I'm not clear what his contribution to the marriage was and whether he realises that this is something the Court would want to know about) and there are 3 (not sure of their ages but assuming school age) young children to consider - that's a heck of a lot of financial responsibility for you!

The Court would want to be really persuaded that you had both considered all your options - independently - and were clear about the outcome if the agreement was reached.

So both of you go and get some independent leal advice - at least you know you have entered the agreement fully informed and that there are no unfortunate surprises lurking around the corner.

I hope that makes sense.

Warm regards

Paula

Good evening Babypiggy!

Thank you for your question, this is a really common problem for parents whose ex is now settled with another and that significant other is assisting wit the care of your child.

Forgive me racing but time is running out and so I want to be able to get through as many questions as possible.

Its a shame that your ex won’t share his work rota with you, but to be fair this probably changes a lot and so it wouldn't be long before it became redundant/useless.

In any event, the Courts understand that parents have to work and even where you have one parent who remains at home and one parent who uses after school wrap around care ...the child would still expect to move between each home in the way agreed/envisaged. Why? Because that is what home life looks like with mummy or daddy and it's as simple as that.

Sorry that probably wasn't the answer you wanted to see.

As long as the most precious thing in the world to you is being properly cared for then the Court is unlikely to change the circumstances.

However, if you are worried, then please try and book yourself an appointment with a solicitor - even the CAB if there is one near you, who you can sit and speak to you properly before you make an informed decision.

I really hope that helps.

Paula

Good evening Fattynoms02

Thank you for your question,

Really good question!

I'm lifting your questions into my response to ensure I don't miss anything.

how do we agree where she goes to school?

You sit down and talk, and if you can't talk, then you write to one another, and if that doesn't work then you try and use a trusted third party who could assist, and if that doesn't work then try going to a family mediator …the last thing you want to do is go to Court unless you have to - trust me! So ask yourself whether there is a school that is half way between the two of you, or near a third party like a grandparent? Or do you both drive..near a particular commuter station etc etc

I would prefer for her to go to school near where we live so the area is a bit more familiar for her

I understand that, trust me I do, but this is a "preference", not one that may suit your separated family - I know that sounds harsh, but something the Courts may well consider.

and I have a bigger support network nearby.

Which is clearly a good reason to have it closer to you, but it may not be the only or overriding reason - does that make sense?

I’m really stressing about this…

I genuinely can feel your pain. Please understand the stress you feel will not dissipate just becuase the matter may end up in Court - it won’t. I absolutely do not want you to feel bullied into making a decision and you absolutely must come to a decision that you feel is in your beautiful child’s best interest, and for that reason the matter may end up in Court, but at least you will be clear about why and know that you have tried.

(and splitting up generally)..please understand, the pain you feel today, will not be the pain you feel tomorrow, in a week’s time or in a month’s time. That much I can promise you.

I wish you all the best.

Paula

Good evening Mewli,

Thank you for your question.

I'm racing now so apologies if I am abrupt in my response.

This is actually a really common problem, people just failing to respond to the Court when they should do. So in short it rests with you to keep on this and constantly alert the Court to fact that time is slipping and that your ex is unlikely to play ball. You can ask that the matter is placed before a Judge for consideration as soon as possible. In the email, explain what you have told me and the fact that you are concerned that your ex will not participate in the proceedings and therefore delay the process, which will cost you time and maybe money. Once the Judge is on board, they will take over the timetable and things will move more easily.

I hope that helps.

Paula

Thank you very much for taking time to answer my question. Have a lovely evening Paula

Good evening dear sadwithkiddies…please change that name, please :-(

You’re so welcome and thank you for your question.

So generally speaking (it’s too complicated in the short time have to explain why) but Courts don't actually deal with child benefits..that is a matter for the relevant benefits agency. It is not up to the Court how a benefit could be shared. A Family Judge certainly has no power to make such an Order.

If child maintenance is managed through the CMS - Im assuming, then only they can decide whether he should cease paying. Unless you both agree that he should for whatever reason?

I hope that makes sense.

Warm regards

Paula

Good evening Dempsey1, so sorry my answer is so short, but yes! his views will be :-(

Really hope it doesn't get that far.

Good luck

Paula

Good evening JamieLeeCurtains (Yes I am old enough to know who you're referencing!)

really quick answer - as above - Family Court's cannot intervene in how the relevant benefits agency decides to to whom payment will be made and how.

You will need to liaise with an expert who deals with benefits - I appreciate that sounds ridiculous!! Family Barristers should know this right?! But Family Judge's dont have the power to make orders around benefits and so that is why we cant assist.

Warm regards

Paula

Good evening everyone,

So so so so sorry I have run out of time!!!!

Please speak to Mumsnet, and hopefully they can invite me on again, I love helping you all out.

Otherwise where possible get some legal advice..even if it's just for an hour, you are one step closer to making an informed decision.

Wishing you al a peaceful evening and hopefully see you soon.

Paula

Thank you to everyone who posted a question - we hope this webchat was useful. And huge thanks to Paula for joining us for another webchat, we hope to see you again on Mumsnet soon too.