Webchat with psychotherapist Juliet Rosenfeld on bereavement, Wednesday 17 June at 8.30pm

[BojanaMumsnet]

Hello

We’re pleased to announce a webchat with Juliet Rosenfeld on Wednesday 17 June at 8.30pm.

Juliet Rosenfeld is a psychotherapist working in private practice in North London and Trustee of the UKCP. She is a member of the BACP and UKCP and a Patron of Camden Psychotherapy Unit where she trained with patients. She qualified in 2012 and has written for various publications on therapy and bereavement. Most recently she published her first book, The State Of Disbelief (Short Books 2020) about the impact of bereavement clinically and personally when her husband Andrew died in 2015. The State of Disbelief was described by the Times as “a beautifully written, profoundly moving and immersive account of grief that will bring solace to readers who have been bereaved, and guide anyone who knows them, who feels at a loss how to understand what they’re going through”.

Juliet will be able to respond to questions about all aspects of bereavement, including dealing with impending bereavement, as well as discuss her thoughts on loss, grief and mourning which she develops in her book.

Please note that Juliet works with adults only. Any posts made by Juliet on this thread will be her own opinions and not representative of any of the organisations she belongs to. She will not be able to make diagnoses online on the webchat, but will be able to provide general answers/comments in response to users' posts.

Please join us here on Wednesday at 8.30pm to post a question, or if you can’t join us then, please post up your question in advance.

As always, please remember our guidelines - one question per user, follow-ups only if there’s time and most questions have been answered, and please keep it civil. Also if one topic is dominating a thread, mods might request that people don't continue to post what's effectively the same question or point. (We may suspend the accounts of anyone who continues after we've posted to ask people to stop, so please take note.) Rest assured we will ALWAYS let the guest know that it's an area of concern to multiple users and will encourage them to engage with those questions.

Many thanks,
MNHQ

This is such an interesting webchat. I'm in a position where my adult children (20s) are having to deal with their dad dying. He wasn't a great dad and his illness seems to be part of that problem, though it didn't manifest itself until recently. My son in particular has got very anxious about me during lockdown and I know he's fearful he'll lose everything. Can you recommend a safe place for them to talk? Would you recommend they talk to someone before he dies or after? Thanks.

Thank you Juliet, hit it on the head. Knowing someone knows makes its slightly easier. X

@Pieinthesky24

Hello Juliet I lost my young husband 1 year ago. I find it hard to put in to words the devastation and loss I feel for myself and my young children. Sometimes it's unbearable and it continues. I have a lovely family and good friends but they are now thinking I should be ok after 1 year. The messages of support have stopped and family think I should be back to normal. My sister has compared it to losing our elderly mother. How can I deal/cope with this? Thank you

Dear Pieinthesky, First of all, I am so sorry about losing your young husband, father of your small children, and wife to young you. I can assure you that one year on is nothing after such a loss even though you will likely be feeling that you have been climbing an endless mountain in the last 12 months. It is different for others, whose husband it wasn't, whose father it wasn't. They may be missing you as you were but this puts a terrible demand on you - to be back to normal, better, strong, coping, happy even. The messages of support stopping is so painful to read and if it helps at all let me tell you that I would not expect anything to be back to normal for you, within your head, for quite some time. This doesn't mean you won't be coping, being a great mum, professional, friend, relative, sibling, daughter - and so on, however please cut yourself some slack. It is very important you take your own time to grieve your tremendous loss - your past, your present and your future. The father of your children has died. This is about as momentous as it gets. Try to follow your timetable, how long or non linear or backwards and forwards it is, and no-one else's - however much you love them, they have not experienced what you are going through. I wish you all the best and your children too.

I just want to say what a wise and compassionate web chat this is, and thank you. I'll be reading it through again.

@Noeuf

Hi I'm (like a pp) someone who was bereaved at 16 (my dad died suddenly, no support for children then, just crack on and be nice to your mum). I'm now, hundreds of years later, of an age where my friends parents are dying.

I don't care. I'm still so bitter that their parents got to see them grow up, grandkids, help them through life that it is so difficult. It's almost like he's died again.

Like a pp, is counselling or therapy a good idea?

Dear Noeuf As I said to a pp - it is never too late to seek support and help but let me try to explain. You must feel such injustice and unfairness. Not only did you have to be a rock to your mum when you were still almost a child yourself, but you now have to be a rock for your friends who are losing their parents. This might well stir up very raw 'age 16' feelings. A kind of 'not again!' and I think this is the 'bitter' feeling you mention, very honestly by the way. You might also hate feeling bitter as it is so draining and leaves you feel somewhat ashamed as if you shouldn't feel like this. Just a reminder of something I am sure you know anyway - feelings are never right, or wrong, it's just what we do with them that matters. Please do get some talking and listening help with someone who you can trust and who isn't involved. I will put a list of places to contact when I've finished answering questions. Wish you the very best and so sorry for your loss, that still feels so recent when I read your email.

Thank you so much for responding . I appreciate it more than you know . ❤️

Dear Juliet
Can you give me advice on how to move on as it has been 2 years since I suffered a double bereavement. My sister suffered a sudden brain haemorrhage and, after 9 hrs of surgery and despite small signs of reactions from her, her machine was switched off after one week. I am haunted by the thought of ‘what if..?’ I wanted them to give her longer. I know she heard me as she would wiggle her toes when asked. However, it didn’t go the right way and I had to break the news to my terminally ill mum, who died 2 weeks later. My sister, only sibling, and I had been discussing our mum’s failing health and then the unbearable happened and my sister suddenly collapsed at home. Her family were so totally shocked. No one was invited to her funeral and I didn’t get to say goodbye but was left to organise my mum’s funeral alone. This happened over 2 years ago but I am still floored by it all, cry often, out of sight of my family and feel depressed most of the time. I have had counselling from Cruse for a while and then a local counsellor but they set a deadline of 3 months. My partner just feels I should’ve moved on by now and should be over it all but I can’t get the picture of my sister in hospital out of my mind. I miss them both enormously but my sister’s passing is proving impossible to come to terms with. She was an active, slim, fit, seemingly healthy woman and I miss her so much.

Thank you. I like the bit about feelings being ok, and what you do with them the important bit. The birthday I became older than my dad was pretty devastating. I'll look for the contacts. Thank you.

@HollowTalk

This is such an interesting webchat. I'm in a position where my adult children (20s) are having to deal with their dad dying. He wasn't a great dad and his illness seems to be part of that problem, though it didn't manifest itself until recently. My son in particular has got very anxious about me during lockdown and I know he's fearful he'll lose everything. Can you recommend a safe place for them to talk? Would you recommend they talk to someone before he dies or after? Thanks.

Dear Hollowtalk. You words have such a kind and sympathetic tone to them. First of all, I am really sorry to hear this is happening to you and your children. Your son will inevitably be feeling anxious about losing you as well as his dad. I would strongly recommend that you encourage him to talk ( and his siblings? )with their dad while they still can. This might even be something that would be helpful for you, in terms of you remembering what was right about your decision to be together. It could be comforting for you to see something reparative happening before their dad is gone. A family therapist sounds like what you need - you and your children and if possible also their dad. If this is out of the question perhaps you and your children could nevertheless express what is going on to each other, wherever this is possible. Of course so much of life, and conversation at the moment seems to be happening on Zoom or other platforms - for the very reasons that your son is concerned about your safety. The more conversations that can be had now, with your children the better. .I have become a great supporter of the telephone again no need for all this technology - just pick it up, hearing you will reassure him and you simply listen. I really hope this can help you forward with the difficult times ahead, Best wishes.

@chergar

My dad died last year while working away and I don't think I have accepted it, I keep expecting him to walk in the door or phone me, I think he is still working away and I will see him again, i cannot accept that he is gone and never coming back. I was sad when it first happened and had a terrible time for a few months but now it just doesn't seem real, I am in denial, I constantly dream about him and wake up confused and have to take time to gather my thoughts and work out if he really is dead or not. Is this normal after 16 months?

Dear Chergar I am so sorry to hear this. It is hard enough to believe someone is dead when they have died in front of you so who knows how hard it is to comprehend a death which takes places miles, perhaps hundreds of miles away. It is literally unseen and that makes it so hard.

First, there is not a 'normal way' for grief and we all need to understand that better. This is one of the reasons I have never believed in 'stages' of grief or even 'grief experts.' Who can tell you what is right or wrong? Everyone's experience of loss is different and based on their own history and the relationship with the person who has died.

I hope that you can start having beautiful dreams about him soon, because once those dreams start coming again they will ease your conscious mind. It is really interesting that you are constantly dreaming about your father, I am assuming that these are not particularly pleasant. However it shows that your mind is doing everything it can to come to terms with the real him - who is not going to turn up - other than in your dreams. As painful as it is this is these dreams are your way of grieving him. I hope when you are ready you can talk to somebody you trust or a professional, thank you for writing tonight. Juliet

@ilovesooty

Hi Juliet

I'm sorry I won't be able to make the live webchat. What impact can you see Covid-19 having on the provision of bereavement counselling and do you think the government should be taking steps to provide experienced paid bereavement counsellors under the NHS rather than expecting volunteers and trainees with bereavement charities to help distressed and traumatised bereaved people?

Dear Ilovesooty

Thanks, a very good question. Many people - and I am one of them believe that mental health should have parity with physical health.

Yet there is never any expectation for physical health services to be provided free of charge. Physical health professionals (doctors, nurses, etc) don't work unsalaried in the NHS- so why should mental health 'doctors ,nurses,' etc?

Perhaps this Pandemic might be an opportunity for mental health services to finally get parity with physical health services ? Let's hope a debate begins. One thing is sure, the Lockdown and its consequences are devastating to many people's mental health, because of bereavement, anxiety, economic worries, and many other reasons - and the voluntary sector should not be expected to manage the enormity of this.

I fervently hope mental health begins to really matter - and thank you again for writing in.

@GraceCharles1613

Dear Juliet Can you give me advice on how to move on as it has been 2 years since I suffered a double bereavement. My sister suffered a sudden brain haemorrhage and, after 9 hrs of surgery and despite small signs of reactions from her, her machine was switched off after one week. I am haunted by the thought of ‘what if..?’ I wanted them to give her longer. I know she heard me as she would wiggle her toes when asked. However, it didn’t go the right way and I had to break the news to my terminally ill mum, who died 2 weeks later. My sister, only sibling, and I had been discussing our mum’s failing health and then the unbearable happened and my sister suddenly collapsed at home. Her family were so totally shocked. No one was invited to her funeral and I didn’t get to say goodbye but was left to organise my mum’s funeral alone. This happened over 2 years ago but I am still floored by it all, cry often, out of sight of my family and feel depressed most of the time. I have had counselling from Cruse for a while and then a local counsellor but they set a deadline of 3 months. My partner just feels I should’ve moved on by now and should be over it all but I can’t get the picture of my sister in hospital out of my mind. I miss them both enormously but my sister’s passing is proving impossible to come to terms with. She was an active, slim, fit, seemingly healthy woman and I miss her so much.

Dear Grace What a devastating double trauma to happen to you. I felt the full impact of the burden of this horrendous loss as I read your email, almost unbelieving at the speed at which two utterly unexpected events were thrown at you and you alone. I am just so sorry. The idea that two years on you would be over this or have moved on, to my mind, is absurd. I think you definitely need help, and someone to talk and listen to you I am going to put links at the and of this chat and I very much hope you can find someone to help. First you and your sister were s hocked at your mother becoming so ill and then you lose the very person you were sharing this with. Your partner may well be missing the person you were before this all happened, which is totally understandable from his perspective but puts pressure on you. I really would like you to get some professional help. Also, I just want to say that in your email your love for your sister and your mother really comes through which will actually help you enormously in the long term. Ambivalent relationships are very hard to grieve, your relationship with your sister sounds the opposite - a wonderfully loving adult sibling relationship, what a huge loss. I am going to sign off now but just want to quote a line which has helped me so much over the years from Philip Larkin and his poem - An Arundel Tomb, " What will survive of us is love." This seems so apposite. I wish you the very best, Juliet

@LadyJaffleton

A dear friend has just told me they are terminally ill and have about four months left. Do you have any advice on coping with the anticipatory grief I am feeling, ways to support my friend and any thing I can do to prepare for after losing them. I feel completely out of my depth and bewildered and can't imagine life without my lovely friend at the moment. Thanks in advance

Dear LadyJaffleton This is so sad, there is no advice other than to spend as much time as you can with your friend and hold her hand as she loses her life. Be there as much as she wants. Make specific offers rather than asking her what she wants you to do, but most importantly just be there to listen to her, and her inevitable fears. Make the most of having a few more months to prepare together, let her know your feelings, that will make her feel loved Wishing you both all the best together in these coming months.

@colouringindoors

My dear sister in law lost her husband unexpectedly to suicide 18 months ago. She's still totally devastated and says it still feels like yesterday. She feels so guilty. Do you have any advice for me in supporting her? Thank you.

I replied earlier about suicide. This is just so hard. It stirs up so much anger and guilt. The best you can offer your sister in law is to be available to listen to her as much as she needs, and to support her in whatever way you can. It is so hard for everyone left behind and I feel in your email your profound helplessness which is totally understandable. Make. yourself available in whatever ways she needs - and crucially that you can manage. If she appears frozen in the shock, she might benefit from some professional support. I wish you both the very best, she sounds very important to you, Juliet

@Puddingnpie

My mother died just over a week ago at home. She had previously had hospice care but wanted to die at home. It was a very traumatic death - took 4 days and she was in a lot of pain. At one point we realised the driver had stopped working (loose connection) and the pain she was, and the words she said, are unbearable for me to.recall. it took a few days for them to get the correct dose of meds to allow her to die peacefully. Im now wracked with trauma and guilt at how she died, so much so that i think it's preventing me from grieving. How do i move on?

Dear Puddingnpie I audibly sighed reading your email, how absolutely awful the last week has been for you, I am just so sorry. I think you sound, understandably, in a state of shock and I would very much hope that when you are ready - and only then - you can find your way to sitting in a room with someone who will help you to recall these last words and release you from the burden of carrying them silently where they can only keep persecuting you. You poor thing, it is all so fresh and you will have so many practical matters to attend to, as well as your emotional turmoil. Please try and be surrounded by loved ones at this immediate time if you can. I wish you very best and thank you for your very moving and honest message. Juliet

Thank you Juliet, I really really appreciate your reply. I've been encouraging her to seek some specialist support as I do feel she's frozen. She performed cpr and I believed is significantly traumatised by finding him and the air ambulance etc. Its hard to find the right support though. I feel for her especially as my husband almost succeeded in a suicide attempt - the brother of her husband who died by suicide 😪

@Charley50

My dearly loved brother took his own life many years ago in his twenties. I grieved deeply and then assimilated my grief and I'm fine now. I remember him fondly and without much pain any more (unless I want to, then I listen to certain songs, or look at photos, or read his letters).

However I feel like I will never grieve for anyone else like how I grieved for him. I have had other friends and family die since then and not felt much at all. Is this common? Sometimes I feel like I must be a sociopath. I actuality worry about this.

Dear Charley50 You suffered such a loss which it sounds as if - from your lovely and succinct writing. - you have very appropriately mourned.

I had a thought which might feel right - or not. - which is that given what a momentous loss you suffered so early on - is it possible that despite. your dear brother taking his life and causing you such grief that he nevertheless left you a gift, which was of being able to tolerate subsequent losses without having to go back to such intense deep grief. Maybe once in a lifetime is enough for you. It's just a thought not a theory but I hope you might find it helpful. Sending you my very best Juliet

Goodbye everyone who has joined this thread, either writing or reading. - I am signing off now and it has been my privilege to be here and read your messages and questions, Juliet

So many awfully sad stories about the devastation of suicide 😪

thank you.

@colouringindoors

So many awfully sad stories about the devastation of suicide 😪

Couldn't leave without replying, yes I do agree. So very, very sad. Thanks @ colouring indoors.

Huge thanks to Juliet for joining us tonight and also to everyone who posted on the webchat. I hope you found it helpful. We're going to close the webchat to new posts now.