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Nadia Sawalha and Kaye Adams on the dark side of social media - Webchat Wednesday 9pm

60 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 19/07/2018 16:38

Kaye Adams on Snap Maps:
“It was a spooky moment. I was at home in bonnie Scotland when Nadia called and asked where my eldest daughter was. I said she was away with friends, unsure of the exact address. “Well, I know where she is,” said Nadia, and reeled off 
an address that sounded vaguely right. I thought she was going
 a bit bonkers, but when I checked she was bang on. She knew exactly where Charly was - and I didn’t. That’s when I learned about Snap Map, an addition to Snapchat. Nadia’s daughter Maddie had located Charly to show Nadia how it works.
We were flabbergasted. It gave an exact, real-time location and even showed who she was with, and if the other people were also Snapchat friends. The possibilities for misuse started to run through our heads: a jealous boyfriend, a left-out friend, an older individual trying to stalk them. We put a video on our social media channel expressing our concern and got over 30 million hits.
Snapchat got in touch with us and we met with a senior executive who tried to reassure us that only ‘friends’ had access
 to the information and only then if the user was not in ‘ghost mode’. If you select ghost mode, you remain under cover. When we asked whether these features had been trialled on the teenage brain, the executive from Snapchat admitted they had not. Yes, you can put it in ghost mode but you have to want to. And yes, you are only visible to friends, but the app allows you to have up to 2,500 ‘friends’ and, as we all know, the more ‘friends’ you have, the more popular you are. In teen world, popularity is everything. (You can now select which Snapchat friends can see your location.)
Snapchat isn’t the only platform that offers a ‘finding service’. The reality is that if you have a smartphone, you can probably be tracked. It might start out as a bad joke, a crush, or an infatuation, but the potential is there for it to turn into something sinister.”

Nadia Sawalha on sexting:
“Even though it turns me grey every time I do it, sexting is something my daughter Maddie and I often talk – ugh – frankly about. It seems one of the most common experiences of sexting for her girlfriends is to receive anonymous ‘dick pics’ (yes, I had the same shudder when I heard those words) in the form of direct messages.
When I plead with Maddie to help me understand why her friends don’t just have private accounts in order to avoid this modern day form of ashing, she says that many of her friends feel a sense of empowerment in being able to look and laugh. In fact, some girls see those visual ‘assaults’ (as I call them) as opportunities to turn the tables on those who send them.
Maddie tells me that she knows lots of girls who have sent nude images of themselves only to make the horrifying discovery that the boy they sent them to then passed them around his entire friendship group. One can only imagine the mortification this must cause these poor girls.
So, in a strange form of feminist revenge, some girls have taken to screenshotting these dick pics (which, on some platforms, informs the sender that a screenshot has been taken) and using them as leverage against the sender.
Of course, my husband and I would much rather friends of Maddie weren’t seeing these images at all and I have to confess,
 I never cease to be amazed at how receiving a dick pic is often accompanied by laughter. It seems that a desensitization of what is right or wrong to see on your handset has already occurred, and so there is virtually no shock attached to seeing such abusive images.
In fact, the idea of female empowerment appears to be a huge part of sexting. The argument seems to be that the sender of nude photos, by ‘being in demand’ or ‘being in control’ of how they are seen on screen, is somehow in control of how they’re seen by their social group. These justifications of sexting or sending sexualized images are a grave cause for concern for any parent.”

Nadia, Kaye and Will are joining us for a webchat on Wednesday 25 July between 9 and 10pm to discuss these and other issues raised in their book Parent Alert!, including social media, chatting online, cyberbullying, gaming addiction and online shopping. Post your comments, experiences and questions for Nadia, Kaye and Will in the comments box below.

Parent Alert! How To Keep Your Kids Safe Online. By Nadia Sawalha, Kaye Adams and Will Geddes. DK, £15.99. DK.com

OP posts:
NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:04

Hi you lovely lot nadia here! How you doing ? looking forward to chatting with you!

WillGeddes · 25/07/2018 21:05

@SubtitlesOn

Why do parents let their children have internet enabled phones so young?

There was someone on here a week or so ago who was thinking of getting her son a new iPhoneX for his 7th birthday! He already had her old iPhone aged 6 but wanted an updated one ShockShockShockShock

If parents want their children (still in junior school) to have a phone so they can contact them why don't they just get them a £10 brick phone without Internet?

Why don't parents who are paying for phone contracts not insist on knowing all of the passwords?

Also, why don't parents tell the children that until they pay for their own contracts or PAG phones that the parents want to have access on a weekly basis to everything on their phone?

Children should only have "friends" that they physically know IMHO and IME not just add random people so they have the most friends

All good points 'SubtitlesOn'. But we also have to appreciate that the older they get, the more they will have to use the online world (as we do), so good 'best practice' in keeping them safe, minimising their digital 'footprint' from the outset is a good start. Agree also with you about their 'online' friends, however they will make them regardless and as parents I believe should take as much of an active interest in finding out who they are, as much as we do of their 'real world' ones.

NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:08

@SubtitlesOn

I am so pleased my DC are in their 20s now. Not trying to negotiate the cyber world as teenagers or pre teens have to nowadays.

When they were teenagers FB was just starting but we had their passwords so could check what was happening online as often as we liked.

They had lap tops that stayed downstairs when they went to bed.

Also, they didn't have internet enabled phones that they could use 24/7

The world seems much worse for children and teenagers nowadays.

If there was some way to get the children to leave their phones and tablets downstairs when they went to bed at least they would have some time off to let them sleep but doubt that parents would do that.

I think this book is probably a great idea to help parents learn about the cyber world and the dangers within it

BTW Nadia we love your gardening videos on YouTube, we think you should deffo use your sink for planting flowers in SmileSmileSmile

heh there subtitleson
You are so right ..why oh why do i not insist that they leave their phones downstairs. I suppose like many other parents i fall for the "i want to listen to my music" line ..or the 'Muuuuuum Its the only way i an wake up!!" You know what maybe tonights the night!
ha ha ha re the sink ! X

WillGeddes · 25/07/2018 21:13

@Spellitforme

Heather2gether could you not just do a random check of yr sons phone and then yr daughters straight after infront of them? You will then see if it's on there still and won't be betraying yr daughter's trust. I used to check my dcs phones but am aware they can delete things. So I just said to them that I will trust them to show/tell me anything that they are concerned about.They are well aware of the issues with online media and only use Whatsapp. mum2three2005 please don't take this as criticism but as gentle advice but I don't think it's a good idea to mention yr dcs name on here even thou its just his first or have it combined with year of birth in yr username but that may be just me being uber cautious.

Hi Spellitforme. All goods points and I think kids need to learn that trust goes both ways from the earliest age and access to a device. Having a device at an early age is a privilege that you've granted them and I would certainly endorse that you agree with them that you will check their phone periodically and whenever you might feel it necessary. One technique is to say that if they lock you out of an app or clear their browsing history, this will be a betrayal of your trust. It can depend on the age of the child and you, as the parent, can make the best judgement as to whether the 'punishment' might be withholding the phone for an evening, day or even deleting that particular app for a period of time if they flagrantly and continuingly disregard your trust. Do watch out for WhatsApp. There can be all sorts of stuff on there.

I might not agree with checking the devices in front of their siblings unless you can assure them the other one can't see what you can.

Nadia, anything you'd like to add?

NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:16

@Mumoftwolittleladies

What should I be thinking about as a mum of little kids? I feel like I'm ignoring some of the scary stuff because it's not going to affect me or my kids for years. And by then I'm guessing lots of things will have changed and there'll be a whole new language about stuff I don't understand. And at that point, how do you keep up with the latest on all manner of scary issues?!

mumoftwoladies
You sound just like Kaye and I!! i think we would both admit we stuck our heads in the sand and left our girls open to danger. Thats why we are so grateful to Will for educating us on how best to keep them as safe as possible ! I think its important not to panic and to always keep the lines of communication open with your children. take an interest in what they are looking at on their phones and make sure from an early age that you have their codes then it will always be the norm for them ! And honestly Parent Alert can be a bible you can refer to right through their childhood !

LowlyWorms · 25/07/2018 21:19

Hi there, my son (15) is obsessed with Fortnite. All his friends have it so even though we've restricted his usage, it's quite hard to restrict how much he's on it as he often meets up with friends. We've also just worked out he's been spending quite a bit of money on add-ons. How do we control how much he uses this and what are your thoughts on Fortnite?

Mum2three2005 · 25/07/2018 21:19

Timmy was obviously a code name. I'd never expose my own flesh and blood on this site. I only joined to express my interest in the book, which I love.

Signing off, it's Tim's bed time.

NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:19

@JeezYouLoon

Not sure a book is the answer, especially a one at £15.99!

The parents who should read it won't, and the parents who do will worry even more.

It's back to basics, talk, talk and talk some more. Best place is in a car so they can't escape and start talking from the get go, obviously age appropriate.

My DSs are now 13 & 12, I have full access to their phones should I want it, all phones downstairs by 8 and we talk all the time about what they're up to. So far this approach is working but I'm fully aware I have the full-on teenage years ahead but I'm hoping I've put in enough groundwork to weather the storm 🤞

jeezyouloon

why not ask your library to stock it as we want to get the message across to as many people as we can! I don't agree that by reading it parents will worry more . Surely information is power!? Trust me they will be reassured .

ShirleyPhallus · 25/07/2018 21:19

Nadia your writing style here is pretty different to the excerpt from the book - how much of it did you write? Was it heavily edited prior to publishing?

WillGeddes · 25/07/2018 21:21

@Thistly

We have a device handover at 10pm regime here regardless of school night or holidays. This is great, but the teens are signed up to it and admit that there have been problems in the past. Do you think it is best to allow a certain amount of freedom, and when the inevitable pain from a mistake occurs, capitalise on it, or do you think it’s best to take an authoritarian stand and just switch the internet off at 10pm from the off?

Hi Thistly. Absolutely. We cover a whole realm of things in our 'Tech Healthy' chapter and removing the devices from them before they go to bed is essential. There's lots of statistics coming out on how children who have their devices in their rooms at night can end up with serious fatigue impacting their schooling. I'm sure we've all picked up our phone when we've gone to the bathroom in the middle of the night. The result is our brain wakes up and it will impact our ability to get a good nights rest. You could even extend it to mealtimes and other times the family gathers too. Turning off visual alerts and sounds for notifications, putting the phone on silent - with no vibrate - and placing the phone face down, can also remove the temptation to picking it up every time it sounds. And unless one of the parents is on-call, they should do the same. It's tough, but adults have to set a good example otherwise the kids will find it unfair.

OlennasWimple · 25/07/2018 21:27

And honestly Parent Alert can be a bible you can refer to right through their childhood

I like the sentiment behind this, but honestly (and this is what causes me most anxiety regarding tech and our kids) stuff moves so fast that what works now is not what will work in the future. Snapchat has only been around for 6 years; Instagram for a similar time. Six years ago who would have thought that dick pics that disappear after a few seconds would be so common amongst teens?

So my question is how we can stay up to date with the latest developments - how do we keep our DC safe when they are more tech aware than most parents?

NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:27

@Heather2gether

My son (14) was recently sent an indecent photo from a girl in his School. I found this out from my daughter who he confided in. I had no idea that this was so prolific and was pretty horrified to read your post that teens have become immune to these images and that it isn't considered taboo to send an image. Surely Schools should be doing more to tell teach them about the risks associated with sexting and also how it can affect your own self-worth. It's so tricky as a parent as we're not privy to what goes on on their account. I found out from my daughter - who my son had confided in but she's made me promise not to say anything as he would be furious if he knows she's talked to me about this and I don't want to break their trust. Also I know the girl's parents and feel I should really be telling them. Any suggestions for help on this would be gratefully received.

Wow heather2gether

I really don't envy you this one! I totally get that you are in dodgy territory if you break your daughters trust and i would not be willing to do it in your position. But what i would do is sit my daughter down and suggest that she urged my son to talk to me and get her to assure him that i wouldn't be angry at all but would be able to offer support.

The girl that sent the pic is on very dodgy ground here ... Will can you advise on this please as you know exactly where she would stand legally ?

WillGeddes · 25/07/2018 21:28

@LowlyWorms

Hi there, my son (15) is obsessed with Fortnite. All his friends have it so even though we've restricted his usage, it's quite hard to restrict how much he's on it as he often meets up with friends. We've also just worked out he's been spending quite a bit of money on add-ons. How do we control how much he uses this and what are your thoughts on Fortnite?

Hi LowlyWorms. Fortnite, Roblox, PUBG, Minecraft are a nightmare for most parents. I've played most of them so have a pretty good idea what you're talking about. Firstly, I would suggest that you have your son agree a 'meet-time' with his buddies. I appreciate some might be overseas, but they need to agree a time within which they can all meet online and play. This needs to be restricted by you to however long you feel is acceptable for them to be online for and he needs to let his mates know - no different to if he was going out to meet friends in the 'real world'. You'd want him back before bedtime or mealtime for example. He then knows he has 60 or 90 minutes, for example, to get some games in and he might actually appreciate it rather than just coasting through the game. He'll need to concentrate to win.

In terms of the bolt-ons, you need to set-up the payment system on the Xbox or PS to ensure you have to give the relevant password or pin to allow for in-app purchases (same for App Store on phones). Fortnite is pretty much free, but kids want all the extra skins, weapons, etc. so it's easy for it to get super expensive before your realise. There's more advice in the book. Hope this helps though.

UpstartCrow · 25/07/2018 21:30

It would help if there were a website people could access IMO. And I've been saying for years, the govt should put ECDL/CLAIT style computer training online.

NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:34

@ShirleyPhallus

Nadia your writing style here is pretty different to the excerpt from the book - how much of it did you write? Was it heavily edited prior to publishing?
No .. hardly edited at all .. Im writing answers to Q and A here not a book !! XX
NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:36

@LowlyWorms

Hi there, my son (15) is obsessed with Fortnite. All his friends have it so even though we've restricted his usage, it's quite hard to restrict how much he's on it as he often meets up with friends. We've also just worked out he's been spending quite a bit of money on add-ons. How do we control how much he uses this and what are your thoughts on Fortnite?

LowlyWorms

I hear your pain ,luckily my daughters don't have any interest in this in fortnite but my friends with sons are tearing their hair out! Will please advise LOWLYWORMS !

Doobydoo · 25/07/2018 21:39

Why has my post been deleted? Free Speech anyone?! Is it because I said 'dross'....

WillGeddes · 25/07/2018 21:40

@LowlyWorms

Hi there, my son (15) is obsessed with Fortnite. All his friends have it so even though we've restricted his usage, it's quite hard to restrict how much he's on it as he often meets up with friends. We've also just worked out he's been spending quite a bit of money on add-ons. How do we control how much he uses this and what are your thoughts on Fortnite?

Hi LowlyWorms. Fortnte, Roblox, PUBG, etc. are all a nightmare for most parents. I've played most of them, so know exactly how you feel. So, couple of ideas;

Tell your son he has to agree a 'meet-time' with his friends. He also has a fixed amount of time to play - you decide what that is (for example, 60 or 90 minutes for example). He may actually appreciate it as many kids will simply coast through for hours.

Also you need to go into the settings area on the Xbox of PS he's on and set a password for the store for any purchases. Most of these games are free but the killer is the in-app purchases like on phone app stores. You have to take control of the credit card against the account or he is likely to rinse it. He also needs (I know it's not convenient) to get you to enter the password - do it like you would when you use an ATM in the street and other people around, or he may get it. Lots more advice obviously in the book

NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:43

@bettycakes

Hi Nadia and Kay,

Really interesting topic and something that is a constant worry for me as a mum with the way things are going these days.

I know you have teen daughters, are you worried social media is affecting them? It’s bad enough for use adults spending our days scrolling, how can we expect it not to affect our children? I don’t want my girls to feel left out so I let them use Instagram but also I don’t like the idea of them being scrutinised or scrutinising themselves with all the unrealistic images they see on there.

Thanks!

heh bettycakes
yes yes yes !! I worry all the time as I know very well social media has affected my eldest daughter . I took my eye off the ball and if I'm honest i believe i was guilty of benign neglect. That why I'm going to make sure I'm much more vigilant with my youngest daughter. Don't forget information is power !

NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:46

@Thistly

Also, for anybody feeling the book is expensive; I am considering asking my local library to buy it for the parenting collection. Then other parents will be able to read it too.

Great idea Thistly we just want to spread the word as far and wide as we can!!

WillGeddes · 25/07/2018 21:47

@OlennasWimple

And honestly Parent Alert can be a bible you can refer to right through their childhood

I like the sentiment behind this, but honestly (and this is what causes me most anxiety regarding tech and our kids) stuff moves so fast that what works now is not what will work in the future. Snapchat has only been around for 6 years; Instagram for a similar time. Six years ago who would have thought that dick pics that disappear after a few seconds would be so common amongst teens?

So my question is how we can stay up to date with the latest developments - how do we keep our DC safe when they are more tech aware than most parents?

Hi OlennasWimple. Probably the most common question we're getting right now. Despite technology moving at such a rapid pace, the fundamental weakness and vulnerability behind every device, app and website will be....Us. The human. Which is why we've written the book in such a way that it talks about how we (and kids) can be exploited and in what ways to click, download, purchase or visit areas online where risks might be presented. As adults, we have a few more 'life experiences' but can still be caught out. Kids are even more vulnerable and susceptible as they don't have the degrees of instinct and 'smell' for something dodgy that we do. We go into a lot of reasoning and explanation in the book on the tricks that can be played and what we can do to protect against being exploited.

WillGeddes · 25/07/2018 21:52

@NadiaSawalha

[quote Heather2gether] My son (14) was recently sent an indecent photo from a girl in his School. I found this out from my daughter who he confided in. I had no idea that this was so prolific and was pretty horrified to read your post that teens have become immune to these images and that it isn't considered taboo to send an image. Surely Schools should be doing more to tell teach them about the risks associated with sexting and also how it can affect your own self-worth. It's so tricky as a parent as we're not privy to what goes on on their account. I found out from my daughter - who my son had confided in but she's made me promise not to say anything as he would be furious if he knows she's talked to me about this and I don't want to break their trust. Also I know the girl's parents and feel I should really be telling them. Any suggestions for help on this would be gratefully received.

Wow heather2gether

I really don't envy you this one! I totally get that you are in dodgy territory if you break your daughters trust and i would not be willing to do it in your position. But what i would do is sit my daughter down and suggest that she urged my son to talk to me and get her to assure him that i wouldn't be angry at all but would be able to offer support.

The girl that sent the pic is on very dodgy ground here ... Will can you advise on this please as you know exactly where she would stand legally ?[/quote]

Hi Heather2gether. Sorry, but thought I'd answered this earlier. I agree with what Nadia has suggested but also believe the key messages to communicate to your son is that what he's doing is 'illegal' if it involves an explicit picture of a minor. Distributing it to his friends or others is doubly worse and equally illegal and in fact if the authorities became involved (the victim's parents reporting it) your son could get in serious trouble. For example, criminal responsibility starts at the age of 12 in the UK. So best your boy deletes it quick and tells anyone he's sent it to do also. Hopefully the girl (victim) realises the foolishness of what she did and doesn't do it again. Don't be worried about confronting your son - you are his parent and don't want him getting a criminal record for this or anything else criminal, I'm sure.

NadiaSawalha · 25/07/2018 21:54

@Thistly

We have a device handover at 10pm regime here regardless of school night or holidays. This is great, but the teens are signed up to it and admit that there have been problems in the past. Do you think it is best to allow a certain amount of freedom, and when the inevitable pain from a mistake occurs, capitalise on it, or do you think it’s best to take an authoritarian stand and just switch the internet off at 10pm from the off?

Thistly

I personally wouldn't take an authoritarian approach as thats just not my parenting style . That said i sometimes wish i could as it seems a lot less complicated .But as we know teens come alive at that time and its when my daughter does most of her online socialising . To be honest i prefer she's at home doing that rather than jumping out of the window to meet up with her mates which is what i used to do! I will be going for the capitalising on mistakes approach !

WillGeddes · 25/07/2018 21:55

@Mum2three2005

Timmy was obviously a code name. I'd never expose my own flesh and blood on this site. I only joined to express my interest in the book, which I love.

Signing off, it's Tim's bed time.

Thanks Mum2three2005. We hope you find it useful. Aways like a 'code name' too. :)

WillGeddes · 25/07/2018 22:00

@Mumoftwolittleladies

What should I be thinking about as a mum of little kids? I feel like I'm ignoring some of the scary stuff because it's not going to affect me or my kids for years. And by then I'm guessing lots of things will have changed and there'll be a whole new language about stuff I don't understand. And at that point, how do you keep up with the latest on all manner of scary issues?!

Hi Mumoftwolittleladies. Don't panic! As you'll find in the book with our case examples, lots of parents can come unstuck. Take reassurance that we can guide you through from setting them off in the right direction through to how to 'crisis manage' things when they go wrong - which they inevitably will. The key is TTT - Trust, Talking and Teamwork. Hold their hand, accept that they will inevitably see stuff online that you don't want them too (sadly true) but you can prepare them, they can talk to you and you can work through things together hopefully.