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Having trouble getting your baby to sleep? Join our webchat with sleep expert Andrea Grace, Thursday 23 March, midday - 1pm

62 replies

RachelMumsnet · 17/03/2017 16:46

Does your baby still wake regularly in the night? Are they resistant to daytime naps? Are you unsure how to set up a good bedtime routine? We’re running a webchat on Thursday 23 March between midday and 1pm with sleep expert Andrea Grace who will be on-hand to answer all your questions about baby sleep.

Andrea is a trained health visitor, nurse and mental health nurse and is a mother to four children. Since setting up as a sleep specialist in 1999 she has helped hundreds of families to overcome their children’s sleep problems. She writes for Mother & Baby magazine as well as other national newspapers and her book Andrea Grace’s Sleep Solutions is described as "a saving grace". Andrea has a sleep clinic based in London which offers individual consultations both nationally and internationally via Skype, Face time and telephone.

Join Andrea on Thursday 23 March at midday or post up your questions for Andrea in advance on this thread.

Having trouble getting your baby to sleep? Join our webchat with sleep expert Andrea Grace, Thursday 23 March, midday - 1pm
OP posts:
Smigs1980 · 23/03/2017 12:50

Hi Andrea,
9 month old baby has started walking up in middle of the night, takes us 2 hours to get her to re-settle even after milk.Trying not to put her into bed with us. not a great day napper. Could this be affecting her night sleep?

Andreagrace · 23/03/2017 13:00

@Andbabymakesthree

Wow what awfull advice.

Basically cry it out and stop night feeds as no nutritional value for a 9th old.

Where's your evidence base for these claims? ??

Dear Andbabymakesthree. Its always going to be a contentious and often an emotional issue advising on the dropping of night feeds. There are many parents who very happily choose to continue night feeds after they are nutritionally necessary and parental choice should be respected and celebrated. My advice is just that - advice and not the law of the land. I’m a mother of 4 [breast fed] children; have been a health visitor for over 25 years and have a special interest in sleep. As such I do know my facts and there is a great deal of evidence that supports the fact that night feeds are no longer nutritionally necessary at 9 months old. Of course, breast feeding provides more than just food but in my experience, many mothers reluctantly continue with night feeds because its the only way that their baby knows how to sleep. I am simply offering another way - that is both safe and sensible. The advice might not suit you personally, but I am responding honestly to someone asking for my professional opinion.

Andreagrace · 23/03/2017 13:04

@Smigs1980

Hi Andrea, 9 month old baby has started walking up in middle of the night, takes us 2 hours to get her to re-settle even after milk.Trying not to put her into bed with us. not a great day napper. Could this be affecting her night sleep?

Hi Smigs1980,

I think that your 9 month old baby's waking is more likely to be connected to the anticipation of the night feed and the fact that the feed is then boosting her blood sugar and waking her up further. I would try to cut this feed out now, as it is not needed. Also check that is falling asleep reasonably independently at the start of the night, and not waking to check where you've gone to. She less likely to be waking in the night due to poor napping than she is to the above things that I've mentioned. Good luck!

RachelMumsnet · 23/03/2017 13:11

Although we've stopped taking questions, Andrea has kindly agreed to stay and answer those that have already been submitted. Thanks to everyone for joining us today and a huge thanks to Andrea for your time and for getting through so many questions.

OP posts:
Andreagrace · 23/03/2017 13:12

@Dontfencemein

I want to stop co-sleeping with my 13 month old. He starts off the night in his cot but invariably ends up in my bed later on. What is the best way to go about this?

Hi Dontfencemein. Sorry to take a while to get round to you but I think that your question may have been answered in some of the other threads if you have look. One thing I would say in addition to what's already been posted is that if you're going to make a change to what happens DURING the night, it really helps a baby if you set the scene for change at the BEGINNING of the night. So altering your baby's bed time routine slightly - doing the feed in a different room for example or introducing a familiar book/song/verbal ritual before placing them in the cot, is a good idea. It will invariably delay the onset of sleep but this is just short term and it will help your baby make sense of [in your case] not getting into your bed later in the night. Good luck!

Andbabymakesthree · 23/03/2017 13:17

Where's your evidence base that breastfeeding is no longer nutritionally beneficial? To a 9 mths old, to the 8 mth old, to the 7 mth old you have said to drop the dream feed and then also you've told a mum to a 3mth old not to feed again after she's settled them to bed?

It's clear you are in the camp of 12hrs sleep without interruption.

As a health visitor you should be aware of the need for evidence informed practice so where is the evidence. I'd love to read it.

Andreagrace · 23/03/2017 13:24

@BlueGirl1982

I have a 6.5 month old who slept well prior to Christmas (usually last feed 10.30/11, slept till 4, feed and sleep till 8.30/9 at least) Now she wakes multiple times every night, on a bad night it can be every hour, on a better night we get 2-3 hours between wakings. She usually naps for 3 hours in the day (rock her to sleep but she then does 1.5-2hours) We've had the same bedtime routine since 12weeks and she usually goes into the cot awake and I stay with her with her till she is asleep. I'm returning to work in April and desperately need some longer stretches of sleep! She is exclusively breastfed so I'm not expecting 12 hours but 4 or 5 would be a good start!

Hi BlueGirl,

It sounds like around about Christmas, your baby hit the famous “4 month sleep regression” [which in fact happens any time between 3&6months.] Whereas when she was younger, she fed in the night just twice out of hunger - she is now feeding several times in the night out of habit! Its fantastic that you’re breastfeeding but it sounds like you have been led into a habit of feeding at every sleep cycle as a sleep trigger for your baby.

The problem is that if you feed her at some wakings but not others, you will upset and confuse her. I have to tell you though that the truth is that at 6.5 months old, provided that she is over 7kg in weight, she no longer needs a night feed at all! It might feel odd or wrong to no longer feed her in the night but honestly, she will be so much better rested if instead of feeling compelled to call for you to put her back to sleep each time she stirs, she is able to contentedly go back to sleep under her own steam. Please visit my website www.andreagrace.co.uk and look at the free article on how to safely drop your baby’s night feeds.

Andreagrace · 23/03/2017 13:24

@tasmaniandevilchaser

I also don't have a question but just wanted to say thankyou! Almost 8 years ago I was falling apart with sleep deprivation - I was too exhausted and stressed to even make it to your office - and you very calmly and kindly led me through sleep training with my 5 mth old DD on the phone. I got my sanity and my confidence back and I'll always be grateful to you, Andrea. Thanks!! Flowers

Dear tasmaniandevilchaser,

How kind of you to thank me. I’m really glad that I was able to help you and I hope that things are going well you now with your growing daughter x

Andreagrace · 23/03/2017 13:26

@TestingTestingWonTooFree

We're having a baby in the next 6 weeks and are hoping for better sleep than with the last one. At what stage do you recommend actively taking steps to encourage good habits?

I’ve pasted below an article of mine which should answer your question. There are more useful articles on my website - www.andreagrace.co.uk

Good luck with your new baby!

A Gentle and Natural way to Help Your New Baby to Sleep Well

0-6 Weeks

In my opinion there is far too much emphasis placed on getting very young babies established onto excessively strict feeding and sleeping regimes. Whilst this advice is well meant and for some babies can be successful, there are many new parents who feel a sense of failure if their baby doesn’t feed and sleep “by the clock” even in the very early weeks. The fact is, that no outside advice could ever be better than a mother [or father’s] natural instinct to love and to nurture their new born baby.

The three most important ways to help your new baby to feel contented and settled:

To feed on demand
To allow their sleep patterns to develop naturally [no waking them up during a nap or in the night- unless they are tiny and haven’t fed for a long time.]
Through holding, handling and gazing at your baby, to allow the lovely process of bonding to take place.

In these early, precious but exhausting weeks, sleep is very closely involved with feeding. Your new baby will tend to live life in a milky, dozy state, and believe it or not, few babies really settle and sleep well. If you are breast feeding, it is quite usual to feed every 2-3 hours…….and sometimes even more in the evening. During the latter part of the day and in the evening, breast milk contains the sleep hormone, tryptophan. So “cluster feeding” at this time, not only allows your baby to stock up on food for the night, it also helps to improve the quality of their sleep.

It might not seem like it, but babies of this age sleep for 14-18 hours in a 24-hour period. If you think that your baby isn’t getting this much sleep why not keep a simple sleep diary? This will give you a clearer picture of their sleep habits and will enable you to see if any pattern is beginning to emerge. Remember though that at this age babies’ sleep is very light and even fidgety. New babies have nearly double the amount of REM sleep than adults do, and this kind of sleep is often called “active sleep.”

To encourage your baby to settle into a good sleep pattern they need:

Enough milk. If you are breastfeeding this means feeding on demand. For formula fed babies, follow the guidelines on the tin or allow 2 ½ oz [75 ml] in a 24 hour period per pound [0.45 kg] of their body weight. If you are at all unsure, you should ask advice from your health visitor.

A cosy and safe place to sleep. The ideal room temperature should be around 18 degrees C. Clothing and cot covers should be made of natural fibres such as cotton or fine wool.

During the night, when they wake for a feed, keep the lights down low and speak softly. Settle them back into the cot after feeding and winding.

Do not change your baby’s nappy during the night unless it is very wet or soiled. A Thermos with warm water for cleaning them will save you crashing around in the bathroom in the middle of the night.

Introduce a familiar gentle song or spoken ritual that your baby will come to associate with bedtime.

Allow them to experience fresh air and light during the daytime, and darkness at night. This will encourage the development and production of Melatonin – one of the most important sleep hormones.

6-12 Weeks

By this stage many babies are beginning to sleep for longer periods and to feed less often. It is usual for a baby of about 8 weeks old to sleep for 6 hours at night without waking for a feed, although many babies have managed to do this earlier and some will be a little later.

Your baby is now bigger and stronger, even though they are not yet be taking solid food.

Their total sleep requirement may have dropped slightly, to between 14 and 15 hours in 24 but night sleep will be becoming deeper and lasting for longer periods. They may not yet have an early, set bed time and it is not unusual for babies of this age to settle for the night at the same time as you do.

To encourage good sleeping habits at this age, keep up with the first 6 steps and in addition try to encourage your baby to sleep without falling asleep on the bed time feed. Do this by giving the final feed with the bedroom light kept on and preventing them from dozing. [A “split feed” might help here.] Once they start to get sleepy and/or you think they have had enough; take them off the breast or bottle and hold them upright against your shoulder. Move gently from side to side whilst humming, shushing or singing. When they calm, try placing them in the cot and if you need to, continue to soothe by stroking, singing etc.

Breast fed babies often find this more difficult than babies who enjoy formula milk – but stick with it and it will get easier. There is no need to prevent your baby falling asleep over every single feed. Try at first, just for the one closest to your baby’s bed time.

12 - 16 Weeks

At this lovely age, your baby is becoming much more active in the day time and may even begin to sleep through the night for between 6 - 12 hours at night, with 3-4 daytime naps. This should total about 13-14 hours.

To encourage good habits at this age you need to establish a bedtime routine.

A good bedtime routine incorporates a set of ‘sleep clues’ which tells your baby that sleep time is coming. If repeated consistently, it will help them to feel safe, comfortable and sleepy.
around bedtime.

As a guide, try the following steps:

A final [short] day time nap at around 5 PM.

Tidy up the daytime things and prepare all that you need for the night.

Turn off the T.V, radio etc. and take your baby’s bottle/blanket/dummy and whatever else they require to the bedroom.

Bath at around 6.30 PM. Even if your baby is clean, it is good to bath them as the experience serves as a very powerful sleep clue. It also allows them to expend reserves of energy. Introduce an ‘action’ song in the bath, you will both enjoy it and it will serve as another [highly portable] sleep clue.

After the bath, go directly to the bedroom. Don’t be tempted to take them back into the main living area, or you’ll find that rather than making them sleepy, the bath has left them ready to play!

When you’re in the bedroom, keep the atmosphere calm, with soft lighting etc. If you normally give a massage, now is the time to do it.

Give your baby a bottle or breastfeed [still with the light kept on] and then afterwards, look at a little baby book together, sing a familiar lullaby or repeat a consistent goodnight phrase. Then place them in the cot - ideally, whilst they are still awake. If your baby struggles to settle, you may have to stay with them until they are calm enough to sleep. It is better to gently ease them into falling asleep independently rather than opting for the famous ‘controlled crying’ technique.

If your baby wakes for a feed during the night, make sure that you put them back in the cot afterwards [no matter how exhausted you are!]

The sequence of your routine is more important than the time at which it is done. If 7 PM is too early for your child, just follow the routine a little later.

You are the best person in the world to decide what is right for your child. Use this as a guide only to support your own instinct. Be loving, consistent, resolute and above all, confident!

Copyright Andrea Grace

Andreagrace · 23/03/2017 13:27

@AlfaMummy

My almost 7 month old daughter is teething and has gone from sleeping through, or just one quick feed a night , to waking up to 5 times a night and is often difficult to get off to sleep. We've also recently moved her to her own room and cot. I currently feed to sleep or almost sleep. She used to feed and then go into her Moses awake but she won't anymore.

Is there anything I can do to help with this period and to help her sleep more? I don't want to do anything which will make this continue once the teething has calmed down. Many thanks.

Hi AlfaMummy,

At this age, babies are very quick to get into habits. Its all part of their increased awareness, learning and development. I think that like OhWhatAPalaver’s baby, she is waking up looking for the ritual of the feed to put her back to sleep. Therefore I would recommend that you follow the advice that I gave to her regarding losing the milk/sleep connection. I hope that things soon improve for you.

TestingTestingWonTooFree · 23/03/2017 17:46

Thank you!

MissAmEdwards · 24/03/2017 17:45

Hi my 9 almost 10month old son is waking up 3-4 times in the night. He was a good sleeper and was down to once a night and wasn't really taking a bottle just really like a top up feedback or even sometimes just a chat.

But recently his been waking as I said 3-4 times in the night, he doesn't really want his milk again only taking a small amount, I have been trying to cut down the amount of times I change his nappy as you wouldn't do this if they sleep through, obviously I do change it if it's really bad.

He isn't sleeping much in the day, may have an hour in the morning and again about an 1-2 hours in the afternoon.

I've tried dream feeding but he won't take it, I've tried bedtime bath routines, I've tired ignoring him to see if he settles, his 2 bottom are now threw but teething hasn't bothered him in the slightest.

I've tried giving him solids a bit later than normal to see if that's fills him up.

The only thing I can think is causing the problem is he has shadowing on his lungs could this be causing discomfort and should I give him calpol? I'm just worried of giving it to him unnecessarily.

I'm so tired and can't sleep during the day, I'm due to go back to work on 3rd any advice?

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