Webchat with Jo Swinson and Katie Wood from Maternity Action on parental rights on Tuesday 15 December 2015 at 1pm

[BojanaMumsnet]

Hello

We’re pleased to welcome Jo Swinson and Katie Wood from Maternity Action for a webchat on Tuesday 15 December at 1pm.

Maternity Action is the UK’s leading charity committed to ending inequality and improving the health and well-being of pregnant women, partners and young children – from conception through to the child’s early years. Maternity Action provides free advice and information on all aspects of maternity and parental rights and benefits.

Jo Swinson is the chair of the board at Maternity Action. She is the former Minister for Women and Equalities and Minister for Employment Relations, Consumer and Postal Affairs. She was Liberal Democrat MP for East Dunbartonshire from 2005 until 2015.

Katie Wood is a barrister specialising in discrimination and maternity law. She worked as Director of Advice Services for the Equal Opportunities Commission and has contributed to a number of publications on maternity and parental rights.

Do join us on Tuesday at 1pm to or post your question about parental rights here in advance.

Thanks
MNHQ

Hello Jo and Katie

Thanks for doing this webchat. What are your thoughts on requests for flexible working - any tips? Anything I should avoid saying or is there anything that would help me be firm but fair?

Thanks in advance.

Hi, I'm currently 10 weeks pregnant and have just the past few weeks started to become terrified of giving birth. I didn't have this with my first at all and although the birth wasn't perfect it wasn't hugely traumatic so I don't know where this is all coming from. I do have a history of anxiety but I haven't ever had a fear like this before. There's a big part of me starting to wonder if it gets too bad if I can ask for a caesarean but I'm really worried about asking the midwife and of her reaction (I am well aware of the risks and major surgery a c-section involves). I haven't discussed this with anyone hoping it would go away but it's only getting worse. I don't know who to talk to and what my options are.

Hi Jo and Katie. I want to go back to work part time after maternity leave. I think they'll let me because they've done it for other people but do they have to reduce the work you do? I just see lots of people doing five days' work in three or four days and don't want that to be me, but then I don't want them to tell me I can't go part time. Thank you!

Hi Jo and Katie. I wanted to ask a question about my rights on returning to work. I'm due back quite early next year and applied for a part time role doing more or less what I was doing before. My company said it wouldn't work for the business, but then they offered it to me on the same hours on a freelance basis. So I'd get a bit more money but no sick pay, holidays etc. I've said yes because I just really need that part time post (can't afford to not go back at all, can't afford full time nursery fees) but are they allowed to do this? And can I at a future stage make a complaint or is it too late because I accepted it?

Hi, for myself I think I'd want to ask what can we do to improve the post-natal hospital experience for women? I only stayed in one night with DC1, and it wasn't a great start to the parenting experience or recovery from birth - basically I would have really appreciated someone to talk to and a mini debrief on the birth experience even though it was a straight-forward and good birth. Resources seemed very stretched to say the least. After DC2's birth I had a 6 hour stay and then went home same day to my own bed - hurray!

But an even more important issue what can be done to improve peri-natal health in the UK? I am completely shocked and saddened personally by the number of women I've met who have suffered a still-birth. I'm sure our country can improve it's maternal care and this would be so transformative for women and their families.

What do you think of grandparental rights, in terms of carer breaks primarily, but also re access?

Jo, do you think you will stand for parliament again? Kirky misses you!

I have heard some very disappointing stories for women who are self-employed and, despite having everything organised, lose work, eg contracts or projects, once their clients learn that they are pregnant and will be taking a short maternity leave (the average planned leave I read in these cases is 3-4 months). It is difficult due to being self-employed and not having in black and white something saying they're leaving because of the maternity. Is there anything that could be done to the law in this area, to at least improve this situation?

I also wonder about the way a lot of forms, organisations etc are focused on the woman / mother in terms of parental care. I think it is right that we focus on mothers and provide much better support for them. But as a work-out-of-home mum, my husband being a stay-at-home-dad, I am still expected as the main carer for the children when it comes to things like forms for provision for them, registering with organisations. Clearly I am not, my husband is, but the language is so oriented to the mother it reinforces the notion that the mother is always the main carer. Is there a way to legally make a cultural shift, albeit small, eg with the way things are worded? 'Parents and carers' as a title has always captured a variety of possibilities, but in practice that neutrality seems to stop there! Many forms are geared to sole main carer, usually mother, as opposed to shared care or the father being the main carer.

I have a number of questions relating to maternity leave and redundancy.
Posts at my work are being deleted and new, fewer, posts created for which we will have to go through a competitive selection. It is now looking like I will be able to go on maternity before the selection process is complete. I understand that if I am counted as at risk of redundancy as my post is deleted, and I am on maternity, my employer has to offer me one of the vacant new posts in the restructure or an equivalent post (though there aren't any other equivalent posts available). However HR have stated that women on maternity leave have to be on the redeployment list before getting priority for any vacancies (in other words I would have to be rejected for the vacancies in the new structure before getting priority for any other vacancies that may come up). What is the best way to have a conversation with HR about this? I don't want to go on maternity leave early to secure one of the posts in the new structure only to find that HR argue I am not entitled to them and I miss out. Do I need to get a lawyer? And what is the best time to talk to HR about this, as soon as possible or just before I plan to go on maternity leave?

And how much notice do I need to give my employer before going on maternity leave? They already know I am pregnant. And can I go on maternity leave at any point during the selection process and still be entitled to one of the posts under maternity law?
Thanks

Anyone received ISEB results? DS took exams in mid Nov and we haven't heard about outcome yet.

Do you have any sneaking sympathy for employers who find it difficult to accommodate requests for leave, flex working, sabbaticals...? What about small businesses, should they be allowed more leeway?

And on a nosier note, what was the most shocking case you've ever had to deal with?

Hi
I'm due to go off on maternity leave in January. My boss is trying hard to change current company policy which is to pay SMP to pay maternity pay in line with our company sickness policy which is much more generous. Hopefully this will get sorted but if now I am in a position to highlight a potential problem. All female employees have been paid SMP in the past but I know that all white collar male employees have been paid full pay for their 2 weeks paternity leave despite it being company policy to pay statutory (90%). I fully appreciate this is 2 weeks and not 9 months but is this allowed and would I have a genuine case. Like I said hopefully it will get sorted and I won't have to highlight this. Is there an issue with me abusing my position knowing this information and then highlighting it. Thanks in advance.

Hi Jo and Katie, thanks for joining us today

If there's one thing you'd like all businesses to do (over and above abiding by the law) to make things better for mothers in employment or seeking work, what would it be?

Thanks for doing this. My question is about applying for a new job while pregnant and if the potential employer is obligated to treat as other candidates or can decide not to pursue simply on basis of pregnancy? Thank you

Hello everyone - really delighted to be joining you for this webchat with the fabulous Katie!

Good afternoon everyone.
I'm looking forward to answering your questions.
Katie

Some of you have asked about returning to work part-time and it's always a popular topic! We have many calls about this on the Maternity Action helpline and I will try to answer your concerns.

Firstly, you need to give your employer plenty of time to consider it and to make any changes so it's a good idea to ask at least three to four months in advance e.g. four months before your maternity leave ends.

You know your job better than anyone else so you need to think about how it would work, what sort of problems would arise if you change from full-time to part-time work? Then you will be in a good position to answer your employer's concerns.

If you have been employed for at least 26 weeks you have the legal right to ask to go part-time. This is called a request for flexible work. You should make a written application to your employer. You can ask for changes to your days of work, hours of work, or place of work. Your employer must give your request proper consideration and ideally they should meet with you to discuss it. If your employer refuses your request you should be allowed to appeal to discuss any misunderstandings or explore other options.

Most importantly, your employer can only refuse if there is a good business reason e.g. it will affect customers or colleagues. There are certain legal business reasons an employer is allowed to give. Your employer must consider how you can do your present job part-time. They are not expected to find you another part-time job and certainly should not be offering you a part-time job on a lower grade or lower pay scale.

I hope that helps to get us started and I'll answer some of your individual concerns.

@CormoranStrike

What do you think of grandparental rights, in terms of carer breaks primarily, but also re access?

Jo, do you think you will stand for parliament again? Kirky misses you!

My view is that grandparents often play a hugely valuable role in the lives of their grandchildren, and work flexibility can be important for them too. Every employee now has the right to request flexible working, and I think there is a strong case for looking at carers' rights at work more generally, to help people manage their caring commitments alongside work.

I do get nervous when we talk about "rights" over access to children as opposed to rights at work. The interests of the child should always be paramount.

I've not ruled out standing for Parliament again, though I'm obviously focused on building a new career - but lovely to know that I'm missed

MatildaAndHerMatches
Your employer has not given a business reason for refusing your request and the fact that they've offered you part-time work suggests that it would be workable. You don't say whether you made a written application for the changes to your role so it might be a good idea to go back to your employer. If you accept the role as self-employed it would be difficult to make a claim later on.
If an employer does not have a genuine business reason for refusing a request for part-time work it may be indirect sex discrimination and you should get advice. You have to bring a claim within three months of being refused.

@EverythingsShinyCaptain

Hi Jo and Katie. I want to go back to work part time after maternity leave. I think they'll let me because they've done it for other people but do they have to reduce the work you do? I just see lots of people doing five days' work in three or four days and don't want that to be me, but then I don't want them to tell me I can't go part time. Thank you!

Yes, employers should look at how to rearrange the work. This will often mean taking on a jobshare partner or additional part-time workers. Part-time workers should not be expected to carry a full-time workload. If necessary you should talk to your employer or raise a grievance.

@DuchessofGrumpyCat

Hello Jo and Katie

Thanks for doing this webchat. What are your thoughts on requests for flexible working - any tips? Anything I should avoid saying or is there anything that would help me be firm but fair?

I think it's helpful to have given some thought to how the new flexible pattern or change would work for the employer. You can point out advantages to them - does it give them longer or out of hours cover for example? Also listening to other suggestions they have is helpful - the ideal is to have a dialogue to find a solution that works for both you and the organisation.

It's also worth noting that you can propose a trial period - if they are unsure this might be useful, as then you can prove it works in practice while minimising the perceived risk to them.

They have to have a reasonable reason to refuse your request - while a legalistic approach isn't the tone you're aiming for, understanding their obligations is helpful - ACAS are a really useful resource, and you could even direct your employer to their website for more information if they want to find out more before making a decision: ACAS advice

@TheSandmansSon

Hi Jo and Katie, thanks for joining us today

If there's one thing you'd like all businesses to do (over and above abiding by the law) to make things better for mothers in employment or seeking work, what would it be?

I'd like businesses to understand that both mothers and fathers have parenting responsibilities, and commit to changing the culture so that both men and women felt they could combine work with family responsibilities.

From recruitment to promotion to wider organisational culture, assumptions can both limit the professional opportunities for women, and make it harder for men to step up in their role as fathers. This gender divide reinforces and perpetuates work cultures where success is judged by presenteeism and talent is lost. So things like enhancing shared parental pay and business leaders being open about taking time out for their family can make a big difference for both men and women.

@Thingschangingagain

I have a number of questions relating to maternity leave and redundancy. Posts at my work are being deleted and new, fewer, posts created for which we will have to go through a competitive selection. It is now looking like I will be able to go on maternity before the selection process is complete. I understand that if I am counted as at risk of redundancy as my post is deleted, and I am on maternity, my employer has to offer me one of the vacant new posts in the restructure or an equivalent post (though there aren't any other equivalent posts available). However HR have stated that women on maternity leave have to be on the redeployment list before getting priority for any vacancies (in other words I would have to be rejected for the vacancies in the new structure before getting priority for any other vacancies that may come up). What is the best way to have a conversation with HR about this? I don't want to go on maternity leave early to secure one of the posts in the new structure only to find that HR argue I am not entitled to them and I miss out. Do I need to get a lawyer? And what is the best time to talk to HR about this, as soon as possible or just before I plan to go on maternity leave?

And how much notice do I need to give my employer before going on maternity leave? They already know I am pregnant. And can I go on maternity leave at any point during the selection process and still be entitled to one of the posts under maternity law?
Thanks

Hi
You will need to give your employer notice by the 15th week before your baby is due. You should tell your employer when you want to start your maternity leave and give them your MATB1 maternity certificate. The earliest you can start your leave is 11 weeks before your baby is due.

You are right that your employer must offer you a suitable alternative job if you are made redundant during your maternity leave. In a recent case the Employment Appeal Tribunal said that as soon as an employer is aware that a woman's post is redundant, she should be offered a suitable alternative vacancy, if one exists. It would be a good idea to talk to HR as soon as possible to clear up any misunderstanding about this and to help you plan your maternity leave. There is information on the Maternity Action website about redundancy during pregnancy and maternity leave.

@snowysnowstorms

Do you have any sneaking sympathy for employers who find it difficult to accommodate requests for leave, flex working, sabbaticals...? What about small businesses, should they be allowed more leeway?

And on a nosier note, what was the most shocking case you've ever had to deal with?

No one is suggesting this is easy for employers - I've personally been in the situation as an employer of a small team where we had 3 people on maternity leave at the same time, and it was challenging.

Many regulations rightly apply to large businesses only, recognising that small companies have a lot to deal with and fewer resources - a simpler regime makes more sense. But when it comes to basic employment rights - the minimum wage, health and safety, maternity leave and so on - it is also right that workers have protection no matter whether their employer is a multi-national or a small business.

I would like to ask about accruing Bank Holiday leave when returning from Mat leave. My NHS boss has said I will not get any BH back (England) but I thought the ruling had changed. How can I challenge this? Thank you