Live webchat on adoption with children's minister Edward Timpson MP, Tuesday 6 January 1-2pm

[KateHMumsnet]

Hello,

We're pleased to announce a webchat this week with children's minister Edward Timpson MP. You may remember his recent webchat to discuss the 2014 SEND changes, and we'll be welcoming him back to MNHQ to answer your questions on all things adoption-related (though of course, questions about other aspects of his government brief are welcome too).

Prior to entering Parliament, Edward was a family law barrister in Cheshire, specialising in the cases of vulnerable children. He has two adopted brothers and his parents have fostered 87 children over the last 30 years, many of whom Edward grew up with.

Until his ministerial appointment he was Chairman of the All Party Parliamentary Groups on Adoption & Fostering and Looked After Children & Care Leavers and Vice Chairman for the Runaway & Missing Children group. He is married with three children.

Please join us live on Tuesday 6 January from 1-2pm if you can. If you can't make it on the day, please post up your questions in advance here.

Thanks
MNHQ

At the risk of sounding creepy, can I just tell anyone who doesn't know that Mr Timpson's dad is a successful businessman who campaigns for flexible working for all, women's progress at work and better understanding of attachment disorders. Which are not common priorities for successful businessmen. Much respect.

@Jameme

Hello Mr Timpson

I appreciate that a lot of work has gone into streamlining the adoption approval process, and this is to be commended. However, I wonder if you are aware of delays that occur elsewhere.

For example, our LA wouldn't let us apply to adopt until we had been on the prep course, which took us a YEAR to get on. (This was 2012). They reasoned they were recruiting to match local need, in spite of there being shortages elsewhere. (Of course, technically they met their 6 or 7 month target for approving us).

Worse even than that is the time it took to get our children to us. We were identified as their new parents before they were freed for adoption, there were absolutely no issues with the match (legal or otherwise) and it still took nearly 5 months to get them home. During all that time, they were in foster care when they could have been home with us, more or less doubling the length of time they were in care. As far as I can tell, the only reason for this delay was 'the process'.

I'd appreciate knowing your thoughts on how these types of delay (particularly the ones that cause children to be in care longer than need be) can be reduced/removed.

Thank you.

Hi Jameme thank you for your posts. You've pinpointed a key part of our reforms to the adoption process - unnecessary delay. Up in my office is a wall chart that sets out every stage of the adoption journey for both the child and the adoptive parents. What we have done is go through every element of it and attempt to remove any avoidable delay. For instance since 2013 we now have a 6 month approval process for prospective adopters and we have also seen the introduction of a 26 week time limit on care proceedings in court. The good news is that we have seen a fall in the time it takes a child to move in with their new adoptive family from their date of entry into care as well as a rise in the number of children adopted within a year from 19% to 27%. However there is always more that can be done and I will continue to bear down on any of the unnecessary bureaucracy that gets in the way of a child finding a loving stable family home.

How does £19m compare to your department's estimate of what is actually needed?

Sorry, forgetting MN rule of one question only...

I would like to echo the concerns of Barbadosgirl. Surely there should be a 'point of no return' in the adoption process, where children will not be returned to the birth family, and this point must be before the start of introductions with the adoptive family?

@Devora

Mr Timpson, thank you for joining us. (Must just say that you and Michael Gove have proved that life experience DOES matter in our elected government - hard to believe anyone else would have bothered making adoption reform a priority - and that's why diversity is so important.)

Tempted though I am to echo the question on John Hemming (seriously; can't he be reined in? Don't you have Westminster heavies who can lose him in a dark corner of Portcullis House?) I think the priority has to be post adoption support. It just doesn't make sense that all the focus is on approval and matching - as though if we get the 'right' children with the 'right' parents, everything will sort itself out - and then you're pretty much on your own. Like many others on this board, I'm struggling to get the support my daughter needs and I don't understand why this support isn't routine and ongoing, since everyone agrees that it is necessary more often than not. The only post-approval training I have done has been paid for out of my own pocket (and it's not cheap).

But specifically I want to ask about support of adopted children in schools. My daughter goes to a really good school, but I've been shocked at how clueless and dismissive it is of her needs as an adopted child. Even more shocked when I got together with another adoptive parents and found out that all our children had faced the same problems and the same dismissiveness. Pupil Premium Plus is obviously a great step forward - thanks for that! - but what else can the DfE do to encourage schools to be more pro-active in meeting the needs of vulnerable and traumatised children?

Hi Devora thank you for your kind words about my family. As you've also (along with many others) asked about adoption support I though it would be helpful to provide you with a link to the information about our Adoption Support Fund: www.gov.uk/government/news/19-million-of-support-available-for-adoptive-families. The £19 million figure is a full reflection of our assessed need for such support and is being wholly funded by my department. We're also committed to future funding and will assess what we need to achieve our aims going forward. The most important thing is that parents and their children get the support they need to ensure a successful adoption.

On helping adopted children with their education, on top of the new Pupil Premium Plus (an extra £1,900 per year), adopted children now have priority school admissions and benefit from the extended 2 year old child care offer. The Virtual School Head (a statutory role for all councils) can if they wish also extend their role to include supporting adopted children as well as children in care.

@Lilka

MNHQ - Thanks for organising this!

Will be working tomorrow but here's my contribution. ETA - this is such a long post! I've gone back and highlighted my questions so it's easier to read hopefully

I agree that the matching process is still very flawed. One particular issue I don't think has been mentionned is the information sharing. There is still IME a problem with SW's being misleading, or deliberately hiding information about the childs issues and background in order to achieve an easier placement. Obviously there's also communication issues etc etc meaning that information that would be important in matching is not conveyed to the right people and so on. But deliberately witholding information is absolutely still happening, more so in some LA's than others of course, just as it was when I first adopted over 15 years ago. All under the justification of not wanting to worry the prospective parents, not wanting them to back out, not wanting to admit (re. background information) that the childs case was badly handled or the child was let down by services, information not strictly being about the child or 'not proven' (third party info) even if it's still very relevent. And I would like to see some way of tackling this, because it can have a significant impact on families down the line. Obviously it's a case of needing a major attitide change within certain SS departments, but people's attitudes can be led by the stance being taken by the government..so...is this issue (witholding information) one that you see as a problem, and is there anything that can be done about it?

Also the inter-agency fees related to matching still prevent good matches from taking place, and I'd like to see a system where this wasn't the case. Is there any way this can be achieved?

I tried to think of a question related to post adoption support that hasn't been asked before, but I can't. It's the biggest problem in my humble opinion with the adoption system right now, with no good solutions yet. We make some improvements but money is tight, understanding of the issues families face is very limited, and then it's also about our countries mental health service provision as a whole, which is also plagued with problems. I've had precious little support through the last couple of years of parenting my DD2. She hasn't had good support either, needless to say! She can't live with me any more and I've been left struggling with depression and post-traumatic stress symptoms, and would be alone but for the support of my family and my GP. Which is not nothing, and I'm very grateful to them, but some adoptive families just don't have that. I think in a few years time or less my daughter will have a child of her own, and then social services will be involved once more....back round to repeat the cycle perhaps Adoption has alterred her life, and for the better in some ways, but not made the changes "happy adoption success stories" are made of...partly because intervention for her came too late, being taken into care came too late, support came too late. I don't think this is actually a question, it's more a...another defeated story among countless others. Nothing significant will change in my lifetime, will it? (that's not an actual question for Mr Timpson)

Okay, actual specific PAS question. There's been a reduction in the availability of respite care for families in the last years, but it can give families a lifeline in very difficult times. Is anyone motivated to improve access to this particular support, to put money in there, is it seen as an issue?

Hi Lilka thanks for your insightful questions. On matching we've been at pains to emphasise that the more prospective adopters are involved in the matching process the more successful the match is likely to be. We've attempted to do this in a number of ways through activity days, changing the law so that the search for a perfect ethnic match doesn't override the prospects of parents providing a great family home that meets all a child's needs and by busting many of the myths about who can and can't adopt. What we do need to do is encourage more people to come forward to adopt the harder to place children who may have more complex needs. We have seen a 27% increase in approved prospective adopters in the last year but we need to continue to improve our collective ability to match the 3,470 children still in care who's plan is for adoption.

On the inter-agency fee - this clearly acted as a blockage to matches as there was an in-built financial bias against prospective adopters approved by Voluntary Adoption Agencies. Through the new Adoption Leadership Board (and their Regional partners) we've worked hard to remove the discrepancy as well as provide VAAs with £17 million and Councils £200 million to help push through our reforms to speed up the system and improve both recruitment and matching.

Finally on respite care, this is something within the scope of the Adoption Support Fund so long as it has a therapeutic element. My own parents used to provide respite care and I know how valued it is by the parents who benefit from it.

Can we ask about post adoption support and the troubles with Camhs?
We need specialist support and inpatient provision in all geographical areas not just a 'lucky' few.
Our teenage adoptees continue to be effected by their early trauma and abuse but apart from the excellent POTATO group (www.thepotatogroup) it's been impossible to get relevant help.
It's the level of support needs into teens and adulthood that is completely missing here- re tendering for supported living is having a huge impact and the decimation of support services. None of this is glossy headline grabbing and not a world we thought we'd be struggling through. We do need to know if you adopt, the support is there and it just isn't, we absolutely love our kids. Their outcomes are infinitely better because of their adoption- but- it's at huge cost to us as people.
Can we start please something new mr Timpson?

1. a culture of HONESTY in adoption services rather than hoodwinking and half truths.
2. A crisis level support in ss that's dedicated when your adoptive family needs are sky high that won't put you through child protection in order to get specialist help for your child?
3. Copies of the files relating to your child. In theory you can obtain these- in practice the families don't get them or give up trying after several years.
4. proper training in all sectors about the impact of modern adoption and ramifications. Can you make HONESTY a key point mr Timpson

Good points, Selopig.

Hi Edward. How do your party's cuts impact on what you are striving to achieve in your department?

@ZammoMcGuire

i agree that there is little publicity given to the fact that many adoptions fail, when one child has been with a foster parent for too long.

Hi ZammoMcGuire you take me back to my youth eating jam sandwiches in front of Grange Hill! There has long been concern about the lack of hard evidence about adoption breakdown and the reasons for it. It's why we commissioned the most comprehensive research to date by Professor Julie Selwyn at Bristol University to look at this more closely. Her conclusions were that, contrary to some estimates that the rates of breakdown were around 20% the actual figure is 3%, which is clearly encouraging. However what her paper does highlight is that where there is inadequate information and preparation provided to prospective adopters coupled with a lack of post-adoption support, the fall-out for the family can be devastating. Its these families in particular we want to see using the Adoption Support Fund, as well as get access to some of the excellent preparation courses such as SafeBase that are provided by VAAs and others.

To prevent children remaining in foster care too long we have strengthened the care planning guidance to make it crystal clear that a key function of the care plan is permanence for the child and they must seek to have such a plan within 4 months of entering care. The number of children being adopted under the age of 1 has trebled since 2010-11 which means they are spending less time in foster care. We've also put in law a requirement for Councils to consider fostering for adoption ie place the child with their prospective adopters but as a foster placement so that the length of time they are apart is reduced as much as possible.

Ps Would you like to see greater use of the 'beyond the adoption' report by Julie selwyn ET Al that the government commissioned? It's findings were pretty striking and we actually took part!

Think the beyond the adoption order report said that a massive number we really struggling with complex traumatised children and the 20% disruption figure refers to families before adoption order- that one still stands. 3% can't live together in the years beyond order. All but one of these families remains very involved in their childs lives.

@Selopig

Can we ask about post adoption support and the troubles with Camhs? We need specialist support and inpatient provision in all geographical areas not just a 'lucky' few. Our teenage adoptees continue to be effected by their early trauma and abuse but apart from the excellent POTATO group (www.thepotatogroup) it's been impossible to get relevant help. It's the level of support needs into teens and adulthood that is completely missing here- re tendering for supported living is having a huge impact and the decimation of support services. None of this is glossy headline grabbing and not a world we thought we'd be struggling through. We do need to know if you adopt, the support is there and it just isn't, we absolutely love our kids. Their outcomes are infinitely better because of their adoption- but- it's at huge cost to us as people. Can we start please something new mr Timpson? 1) a culture of HONESTY in adoption services rather than hoodwinking and half truths. 2) A crisis level support in ss that's dedicated when your adoptive family needs are sky high that won't put you through child protection in order to get specialist help for your child? 3) Copies of the files relating to your child. In theory you can obtain these- in practice the families don't get them or give up trying after several years. 4) proper training in all sectors about the impact of modern adoption and ramifications. Can you make HONESTY a key point mr Timpson

Hi Selopig I share many of your frustrations about the need for specialist support to be available when you and your family need it. The experience of my own family who adopted in the 1980s was of virtually no therapeutic services or ongoing support. I also know that problems associated with a young person's early life experiences can flair up at any moment. Its for these reasons we have set up the Adoption Support Fund which allows the buying of support services including CAMHS, but also asked all national and local health service commissioners to specifically consider the needs of adopted children when developing local health services. We've also commissioned NICE to produce guidance on attachment issues for adopted children. The CAMHS taskforce that is under way is also targeting what are termed vulnerable groups that includes children adopted from care. I'm determined to make sure that the paucity of knowledge and support at the time we adopted is no longer the case for those adopting now and in the future.

our children came from a very disturbed background .we were given so much help, course after course Attachment etc,we have access to professionals 24/7 .we work in child care and that helps , we understand our children s issues .School don't want to know ,wont help , have no understanding , and not an ounce of empathy. they are more worried about Ofstead . My childs pupil premium has gone in the school pot ,until adoptive parents have a say in the way there child's money is spent. schools will not give a dam !! £1900.00 x2 . give us control .

@HarveyGallagher

A question for the minister: I know there is lots of work going on in government to strengthen the role of long term foster care for the many children that need it. Given the public profile that government has given adoption, will government now give the same public support to long term foster care?

Hi HarveyGallagher you're quite right to remind us that for some children they will have a different route to permanency. In fact I saw one of my long-term foster brothers this weekend - he lived with us for over 10 years and is now in his 30's with his own family, but he still has a strong attachment to us. We wanted to recognize this and so have given legal definition to long-term fostering as well as increase the authority delegated to long term foster carers so they can make every day decisions in order to create a normal family home existence. We've also raised the age that foster children can remain with their foster carers from 18 to 21, a long called for and important step in giving them the stability at home that we would expect for our own children.

Hi again
Listen, we are in an ASF pilot area. Our first enquiry stating we would need ASF for therapy for our adopted daughter and EMDR for us as parents was in JUNE 2014.
The sw had to come and assess our need.
The whole system takes months. The report has only just been written but there's no guarantee of getting any help- we needed this such a long time ago!
It's just taking forever...

Thank you. These are all excellent developments but we need to keep pushing to make sure they become real for children in care, and I hope government will continue to add its voice - loudly and clearly!

@AdoptAKid

I asked a lot of questions on last adoption chat on MN only to be fobbed off by the person . However I received a lot of support from other posters.

Adoptive parents never seem to be taken seriously, just because child is not their DNA.

Love transcends biology.

Basically, post adoption services are unwilling to help settle a child thats had other placements and trauma from abuse and other changes prior to adoption.

The Gov go on about getting children adopted sooner than later and seeing them settled.

Weve had 16 moves in 10 years because of disability discrimination (both child and I are disabled), private landlords raising rent that housing benefit wouldnt cover (im also a fulltime carer for disabled child), and let down by council housing not adapting places for disabilities, plus bedroom tax for a tiny room adapted for disabilities (dont know what party you belong to but if you're Labour, please keep your promises to take the BT off if elected, and if you're coalition, well, I dont want to swear!!!!)

my poor child was abused in every way, had 3 foster placements before I adopted child (foster carers couldnt cope with the disabilities, especially the mental ones), and yet poor thing cant ever settle and we cant call anywhere home because of one thing or another (too long a story and there are other posters on here with equally valid questions and situations).

Its not fair.

Adopted children get overlooked many many times, as do disabled people.

So, whats the plan? What can be done for vulnerable families and especially adopted rtaumatised children?

im trying my best to give my child a decent life yet hit brick walls all the thime.

Thank you.

(wont be able to join 'live')

Hello AdoptAKid and I'm sorry to read about your experience. In order to help people like yourself we have trebled the discretionary housing payments that are available to Councils to support those who need it most. The Adoption Support Fund is also there to help you deal with the consequences of past trauma and I would encourage you to look at the Adoption Passport that sets out the entitlements you do have.

Some really sad, quietly desperate posts on this thread .

@paulwellersjam

Why is there so little joined up thinking across the country when it comes to matching? It has taken private enterprise to put in place a national online database of approved parents and children (adoptionlink). A national register which was truly comprehensive would result in hugely improved matching for children and I can't understand how that isn't a priority. It doesn't make sense that some people are waiting months before being matched to children who have likewise been available for adoption for months. It doesn't make sense that it takes months for links to be approved and introductions to begin either as pointed out by PP - how can this process be streamlined?

I have serious concerns about the lack of understanding of attachment and basic medical information by some/most social workers. Complete lack of understanding of genetic inheritance, no knowledge of child development including really basic information like percentiles etc. We have had to basically educate our social workers and neither of us has a science background. What can be done to improve standards? Is anyone even aware of this as an issue?

Hi paulwellersjam - on the matching point over and above what I've already posted I would add that we do have the National Adoption Register to enable prospective adopters to widen their search as far and wide as possible. It is the law that all children and approved adopters have to be referred to the register so if you haven't been you should follow this up with your Council or VAA.

In relation to social work understanding of attachment and other matters often relating to children being adopted from care, this is a key point. As other posts have said there are some fantastic social workers out there making a massive difference to children's lives, but we want to be confident that they all have the necessary skills and knowledge required to have the level of insight into a child and therefore what their future needs will be. That's why the Chief Social Worker for Children and Families Isabelle Trowler has set out what those core skills and necessary knowledge social workers must have in order to practice. We have also provided training to social workers in every Council on adoption (through BAAF) including on the importance of attachment and avoiding delay.

I'm afraid my time is up. Thank you to all those who've taken part and I'm sorry I've not had time to answer every single question, however I will spend some time reading through this webchat and soaking up your views and experiences which I very much value.

My Ministerial colleague Sam Gyimah will be with you on Thursday to chat about child care, and I hope to have another chance to come on Mumsnet in the future.

Until then Happy New Year.

Edward

Really appreciate you coming to mn
would be interested to hear your learning from this event

thank you!

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions

Thank you for your time.