Live webchat on adoption with children's minister Edward Timpson MP, Tuesday 6 January 1-2pm

[KateHMumsnet]

Hello,

We're pleased to announce a webchat this week with children's minister Edward Timpson MP. You may remember his recent webchat to discuss the 2014 SEND changes, and we'll be welcoming him back to MNHQ to answer your questions on all things adoption-related (though of course, questions about other aspects of his government brief are welcome too).

Prior to entering Parliament, Edward was a family law barrister in Cheshire, specialising in the cases of vulnerable children. He has two adopted brothers and his parents have fostered 87 children over the last 30 years, many of whom Edward grew up with.

Until his ministerial appointment he was Chairman of the All Party Parliamentary Groups on Adoption & Fostering and Looked After Children & Care Leavers and Vice Chairman for the Runaway & Missing Children group. He is married with three children.

Please join us live on Tuesday 6 January from 1-2pm if you can. If you can't make it on the day, please post up your questions in advance here.

Thanks
MNHQ

I would strongly support JammySods point regarding matching process. Its slow, cumbersome and not fit for purpose. Its too reliant on individuals opinions and it doesn't put the childrens needs first. Once links are in place, everyone takes their feet off the gas pedal as its not seen as a prority anymore - so meetings rumble on, holidays & endless training sessions interrupt paperwork deadlines and so on.

I would also like to ask what work is being done to understand the impact of social media on adopted children/families and the dangers / risks it creates - particularly when many agencies still refuse to even discuss the necessity of name changes for children.

MNHQ - Thanks for organising this!

Will be working tomorrow but here's my contribution. ETA - this is such a long post! I've gone back and highlighted my questions so it's easier to read hopefully

I agree that the matching process is still very flawed. One particular issue I don't think has been mentionned is the information sharing. There is still IME a problem with SW's being misleading, or deliberately hiding information about the childs issues and background in order to achieve an easier placement. Obviously there's also communication issues etc etc meaning that information that would be important in matching is not conveyed to the right people and so on. But deliberately witholding information is absolutely still happening, more so in some LA's than others of course, just as it was when I first adopted over 15 years ago. All under the justification of not wanting to worry the prospective parents, not wanting them to back out, not wanting to admit (re. background information) that the childs case was badly handled or the child was let down by services, information not strictly being about the child or 'not proven' (third party info) even if it's still very relevent. And I would like to see some way of tackling this, because it can have a significant impact on families down the line. Obviously it's a case of needing a major attitide change within certain SS departments, but people's attitudes can be led by the stance being taken by the government..so...is this issue (witholding information) one that you see as a problem, and is there anything that can be done about it?

Also the inter-agency fees related to matching still prevent good matches from taking place, and I'd like to see a system where this wasn't the case. Is there any way this can be achieved?

I tried to think of a question related to post adoption support that hasn't been asked before, but I can't. It's the biggest problem in my humble opinion with the adoption system right now, with no good solutions yet. We make some improvements but money is tight, understanding of the issues families face is very limited, and then it's also about our countries mental health service provision as a whole, which is also plagued with problems. I've had precious little support through the last couple of years of parenting my DD2. She hasn't had good support either, needless to say! She can't live with me any more and I've been left struggling with depression and post-traumatic stress symptoms, and would be alone but for the support of my family and my GP. Which is not nothing, and I'm very grateful to them, but some adoptive families just don't have that. I think in a few years time or less my daughter will have a child of her own, and then social services will be involved once more....back round to repeat the cycle perhaps Adoption has alterred her life, and for the better in some ways, but not made the changes "happy adoption success stories" are made of...partly because intervention for her came too late, being taken into care came too late, support came too late. I don't think this is actually a question, it's more a...another defeated story among countless others. Nothing significant will change in my lifetime, will it? (that's not an actual question for Mr Timpson)

Okay, actual specific PAS question. There's been a reduction in the availability of respite care for families in the last years, but it can give families a lifeline in very difficult times. Is anyone motivated to improve access to this particular support, to put money in there, is it seen as an issue?

That first one didn't highlight. It was is this issue (witholding information about a child/their background in matching) something that you see as a problem, and is there anything that can be done about it?

Why are self employed people not entitlement to Satutory Adoption Pay whilst statutory maternity pay is available to all working people whether employed or self employed?

Mr Timpson, thank you for joining us. (Must just say that you and Michael Gove have proved that life experience DOES matter in our elected government - hard to believe anyone else would have bothered making adoption reform a priority - and that's why diversity is so important.)

Tempted though I am to echo the question on John Hemming (seriously; can't he be reined in? Don't you have Westminster heavies who can lose him in a dark corner of Portcullis House?) I think the priority has to be post adoption support. It just doesn't make sense that all the focus is on approval and matching - as though if we get the 'right' children with the 'right' parents, everything will sort itself out - and then you're pretty much on your own. Like many others on this board, I'm struggling to get the support my daughter needs and I don't understand why this support isn't routine and ongoing, since everyone agrees that it is necessary more often than not. The only post-approval training I have done has been paid for out of my own pocket (and it's not cheap).

But specifically I want to ask about support of adopted children in schools. My daughter goes to a really good school, but I've been shocked at how clueless and dismissive it is of her needs as an adopted child. Even more shocked when I got together with another adoptive parents and found out that all our children had faced the same problems and the same dismissiveness. Pupil Premium Plus is obviously a great step forward - thanks for that! - but what else can the DfE do to encourage schools to be more pro-active in meeting the needs of vulnerable and traumatised children?

Hello Edward

The media often portrays 'forced adoption' with widely inaccurate and emotionally charged stories of social services stealing babies. This is hugely unhelpful for adoptive parents parenting children who are often traumatised and damaged by their experiences. Do you have any plans to combat this?

I'd like to know what is going to be done about children being returned to their mums or parents when all the expected changes have been done and no crime has been committed against our children. If a child has not been abused and the parents have done all and more expected of them shouldn't the Local Authority reunite and give support instead of causing lifelong emotional harm by severing all ties by adoption?

I'm sorry but it's yet another post adoption support question. You cannot believe how infuriating it is to go on prep and have serious discussions about some behaviours that traumatised children may exhibit; yet as soon as they are placed, it seems that social workers' main priority is to minimise any issues, and effectively act as gatekeepers. Being unable to access meaningful effective support is a reality for too many of us. What plans are in place to ring fence proper therapeutic support for our children and families? Not a few grand here and there, but long term effective interventions to address our children's needs? This shouldn't just be the responsibility of local authorities whose budgets have been slashed exponentially in recent years.

Hello Edward

I would like to comment on the apparent lack of funding and focus for post adoption support relative to placing children in the first place.

We live in a county where a lot of children tend to get placed for adoption from the city. Due to targets etc, the city adoption team is expert and well funded, did a great job of training us and getting our children into placement.

Now 8 years on, we fall under the county team's remit, and since the cuts there is one post adoption worker in the whole county with no budget except to photocopy leaflets as far as I can see. At the time of placement we were confident in the post adoption team - but now we need them, they have been re-organised and cut back, the support isn't available to us.

How are the government going to make proper, professional post adoption support available to all adoptive families without them having to fight for it and be fobbed off every step of the way? How can a consistent high standard be achieved nationally?

(You clearly have lots of experience so any other tips for dealing with angry nine year olds would help too!)

I am the adoptive mother of two children who have been with us for over 8 years. Our son came to us with sever behavioural problems which nearly broke us. Unbeknown to us, after several years we managed to get him diagnosed with adhd, sensory integration disorder together with attachment disorder and developmental delay. Our daughter came to us with 'no problems' She has turned out to be the most severely affected in that not only does she have all the above but has just been diagnosed with ASD.
My point is about the fact that too often adopted families are being fobbed off with a diagnosis of attachment disorder and that all the problems they are having are either to do with their lack of parenting skills or
attachment problems. In fact many if not most children who are adopted are more than likely to have other mental health problems and could actually receive much more support than they are getting were they properly assessed and diagnosed.
I feel very strongly that the emphasis at CAMHs and SS should be to look at possible mental health problems rather than just assume that a child has attachment disorder and that nothing can be done.
Most Birth parents/mothers have undiagnosed mental health problems, that is why they are self medicating on drugs and alcohol. That is why there is violence in the family. That is why they are unable to bond with their child and that is why they keep repeating the cycle and having more and more children. It is no wonder so many adopted children turn out to have mental health problems.

Another point I would like to make is that very often our children have a whole lot of different mental health problems, but none of them are 'bad enough' to mean that you can access any services especially from SS disability services which are completely geared up to help children with physical disabilities. Unfortunately because they have such a mixture of different problems together with the rejection, extreme trauma and extremely low self esteem that comes with being removed from their birth family our children do need considerably more help than often the zero help they presently get.

Many adopted children are often on the brink of never actually leading independent lives (as is the case with our children) , returning to care or into the prison system and at worst repeating the abusive cycle of the birth family and abuse their adoptive family.
We, as adoptive parents are giving up our lives - we have lost friends and been distanced from family because of our children's difficulties, I am now anti depressants as a result of the stress of coping with the extreme behaviour of our children on a daily basis. and have very often given up our careers ( I have never been able to return to work and probably never will ). We do this so that our children can have 'normal' happy lives but we are thwarted at every turn. We deserve better, much better.

As someone with experience of family law do you believe family law sessions should be open to the public? If yes, how does this serve the child's welfare?

Do you think there might be an over-emphasis on the process of getting children in care adopted quickly eg LA targets when that might not necessarily be right for the child?

I have been informed by a health professional that my children should probably not have been placed in a family. Their severe and complex needs were not identified when they were adopted as toddlers. The other point is they are siblings (adopted four years apart) but their life chances would have been better if placed separately as only children.

Hello Edward,

Thanks for coming on Mumsnet today. My mother was adopted in the fifties and was fortunate enough to find a loving supportive family. She finds it incredible that potential adoptive parents have to undergo such a formidable, opaque, frustrating process in the UK adoption system.

Do you have some core policy revisions prepared for the election which would make a tangible difference to the rate of adoptions in the UK?

Thank you

A question for the minister: I know there is lots of work going on in government to strengthen the role of long term foster care for the many children that need it. Given the public profile that government has given adoption, will government now give the same public support to long term foster care?

Why are Social Services obliged to do an assessment of need if requested, but then not obliged to provide services to meet the needs identified in the assessment?

As a voluntary adoption agency we have found that funding we received from Children in Need to provide therapeutic play services (which can be accessed before a placement is made) has had a hugely beneficial impact for families in preparing them for adoption and identifying areas of potential future concern. What are you views on allowing centrally funded access to this type of adoption support pre-placement?

yy to RaisingSteam, doubletrouble and Tokoloshe*.

There are a number of weird disconnects in the adoption narrative, as you go through the journey. The recruitment ads all stress that they are just looking for normal families, not super-parents - and the images all convey the impression of normal, happy family life. Then as soon as you're being assessed, the tone all changes and it becomes sort of macho, 'can you take it, punk', with lots of emphasis on how damaged these children are, and guilt-tripping for daring to hope for normal family life, and the message is basically that this is about seeing if you're good enough to become an unpaid therapeutic carer. Then when it comes to matching, the child is often 'marketed' to you in an incomplete, misleading or falsely reassuring way. And then the door is slammed on further support and you're left to get on with it.

I think adoption is a wonderful thing, and I am my daughter's mother, not her therapeutic carer. But the more I meet and talk with other adoptive parents, the more annoyed I get about how quickly the State washes its hands of these kids. It's almost like it is outsourcing the responsibility for these children and exploiting our love for them - plus our exhaustion, and our disinclination to be shouting from the rooftops about their problems - to get to just walk away.

I know some canny adopters who deliberately delay the final adoption order as long as possible in order to negotiate an adequate package of support - because after that order is final, you have little negotiating power left. This is not ideal, but I must admit I increasingly think all adopters should consider doing it.

Hi everyone I've made it through the rain to Mumsnet and am looking forward to our webchat on adoption. I will be online from 1pm.

Oh wow, is it nearly 1? Where has the morning gone?!

Please please listen to the need for better post adoption support.
Very limited experience but during my time placed within leaving care services you can see its vital.

CAHMS is at breaking point too

Devora - absolutely spot on!

@Italiangreyhound

Hello Edward, if I may call you that.

I am mum to an adopted son and a birth daughter.

We are very fortunate that we have had a very 'smooth' experience of adoption, so far. Our son has been home less than a year and has so far adjusted very well, and our local authority have been very supportive.

Unfortunately, I have heard (here especially on mumsnet adoption threads) of people who are really struggling with problems in the family when parenting children who have joined the family by adoption. The amount of support that is provided seems to vary greatly, with some poor parents struggling on without help. They have looked for help and not found any.

I really hope the government knows that encouraging more adoption without providing post adoption support is not going to work in the long run because it may well lead to more family breakdowns. Which is the last thing these children, or families, need!

It would also, in the long run, be very, very expensive to pay for specialist foster or residential care when adoptive parents may have been very able to cope and enable their kids to survive and thrive with the right post adoption support.

Adoptive parents become the expert in their kids, I believe very quickly, they know what would help their kids and themselves, they learn 'on the job', just as all parents do.

Will those in power and in control of the purse strings listen to what parents think their kids need? Will they support these parents to meet the children's needs? Failure to do so could have a very, very high price tag.

Can you give some idea how the government plans to support all these new families, with therapy being very expensive and budgets being cut, how can the needs of these children and families be met?

Thank you.

Hi Italiangreyhound great to hear from you. As someone who's own family have adopted I'm always delighted to hear from others who have been through the same experience. With 70% of children adopted having suffered some form of abuse or neglect, the importance of post-adoption support cannot be underestimated.That's why we've set up the new £19 million Adoption Support Fund that is currently available in 10 pilot areas and will roll out across England in May. It's accessible to all parents who adopt children from care and is there to help deliver the much needed therapeutic services that I know from my own family's challenges with adoption are so vital to a successful adoption. Adoptive parents in the 10 pilot areas have already benefited to the tune of £300,000 and have relayed back the huge impact it has already had.

Gosh 19 million sounds like a lot doesn't it? It's not though is it? It's a drop in the ocean. And especially not when you're cutting budgets for public services. In real terms there's going to be less money for Children and Familes services isn't there? A LOT less.

I am an experienced adopter of a sibling group of 2.
I co lead a newly established group for the Parents of traumatised adopted teens.
post adoption support/ the selwyn report on disruptions - but more to the point - child to parent violence needs so much more government input.

I also sit on 2 relevant NICE guideline development groups and have huge concerns about the way they are going but no one from your department will talk to me about that - why is that ?

Why does Pupil Premium Plus for adopted children not extend to 6th Form Colleges too?