Join us for a live webchat with Professor Dorothy Bishop, Tuesday 16 December 1-2pm

[KateHMumsnet]

We've had a few requests for a webchat with Professor Dorothy Bishop on academic research into language disorders, dyslexia and literacy issues - so we're delighted to announce that she will be joining us for a webchat on Tuesday 16 December at 1pm.

Dorothy is a Wellcome Trust Principal Research Fellow and Professor of Developmental Neuropsychology at the University of Oxford, where she heads a programme of research into children’s communication impairments. She is also a supernumerary fellow of St John’s College Oxford, as well as a Fellow of the British Academy, the Academy of Medical Sciences and the Royal Society. As well as publishing in conventional academic outlets, she writes a popular blog and tweets as @deevybee.

Please join us in welcoming Professor Bishop on Tuesday 16 December from 1-2pm, or post your questions in advance on this thread.

@sambrooks123

My 9 yo daughter has SLI both expressive and receptive which is less severe now we had had intervention - my question is, can she improve her expressive language to be similar to those of her peers? She is very bright and has learned concepts to help her with the tenses but still struggles to give detailed description and set her thoughts in context.

She doesn't have motor skills issues and her social interaction problems are only related to what she says, otherwise she is more emotionally clued up than a lot of otherwise 'mainstream' children. It is very specifically language based but is more to do with processing and memory as well.

I can't answer specifically about your daughter, but in general outcomes are reasonable for children whose receptive language is relatively good. As mentioned elsewhere, I'll try and post some references on this topic. We did a follow-up study into adulthood of people who'd had SLI and most were employed and in relationships, but they were not academic high-fliers. Important, I think to find something each person is good at, even if it is nonacademic.

I suppose what I was getting at in my early ramble, was could it be beneficial for an 8yr old with expressive language disorder to have more exposure to toddler material, provided he has some interest in it? Like CBeebies Show me Show me, or 'Let's Play' (modern versions of playschool if you've not seen them), and Peppa Pig type programmes?

Thanks for doing this Q&A!

My question: does dysgraphia have any connection to dyspraxia?

@kelda

Fantastic to have you here. My son is aged 6 and has a diagnosis of verbal dyspraxia and a phonological disorder from a specialised clinic where we live in Belgium.

I have many questions, but will try and limit them to two.

He is bi-lingual flemish/english . He has thrice weekly therapy from a specialised SLT but progress is very slow.

Is there evidence to suggest that bi/multi lingualism prohibits the treatment of speech disorders?

Also my father has a severe stammer. Is there a link between a stammer and dyspraxia?

The general view is that bilingualism should not affect treatment. We have a video on this very topic!

I don't know of a stammer/dyspraxia link; suspect it is just coincidence

@totoro7ssidekick

Another question just in case there is time...

Do you know of any credible research on the pros and cons of teaching children cursive handwriting at the beginning of primary school? Do you have an opinion on the practice?

My son's school insist that their choice to teach cursive from reception is evidence -based, but I can't find the evidence. And it seems counterintuitive - this is not how letters look in books, it's more difficult to read, etc...

I tried to answer that and I think the internet ate my answer. But I'm afraid it's not a good answer since i have no idea! Sorry

Thank you, that's really helpful, she loves drama and is confident and happy, it's just as secondary and adulthood hit home whether she can communicate with peers will be the issue. How to improve expressive language is always the issue for us, receptive language and literacy skills seemed to have improved enormously and she is within average levels for those.
Many thanks and I will watch out for references on the outcomes.

@Destinycalls

DS (6) with dyskinetic cerebral palsy has huge difficulty coordinating muscles so speech is no more than a couple of sounds, also few teeth (enamel hypoplasia due to IUGR) and therefore eats very little and is tube fed, so multiple impediments to speech. Is there anything we can do to help train the muscles around his mouth?

He desperately wants to speak and struggles with the physical side of alternatives like signing and iPads.

Hi Destinycalls
You really should be having input from a specialist speech/language therapist on this.
Many years ago I did some research on children with speech problems due to cerebral palsy, many of whom understood language very well. We used eye-pointing to assess their comprehension - at that time (1980s) it was pretty primitive to do this, but it should be easier now as eyetracking methods have developed. I don't know how far this might be suitable but it would be worth discussing with communication aids experts.

Thanks for your response. As an ed psych I have to say I feel very confused about dyslexia. We use the Rose report definition, but I feel like I am much less sure of what dsylexia is than when I was a teacher! The more you know, the less you know...

Gah! I meant to ask - has dysgraphia any relationship to dyslexia, not dyspraxia!

Mmm. I've read the blog post (deevybee.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/my-thoughts-on-dyslexia-debate.html if anyone else wants it), and to be honest, I don't really follow.

I think we may find it easier to work with the label and try to ensure it is used in a consistent and meaningful way, rather than to argue for its abolition.

Ok, fine ... but how do we do that if any dicussion about what might be meaningful or consistent use is to be shut down with the insistence that we can't possibly define dyslexia and must always acknowledge its imprecision as a term?

I know it's an imprecise term, and definitions disagree. But that is generally the case with anything useful or interesting, isn't it? It needn't stop us having the debate.

I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but it feels circular to me. And at this point I'm posting so maybe after the webchat other MNers might help me out, not professorBishop (just to be clear!).

@corkysgran

Thank you for coming on. I am interested in your work linking x and y chromosomes with autism as my grandson is XYY and was diagnosed ASD at nearly 3 (he's 6 now). He is language delayed but making good progress with slt and is learning to sight read (he liked phonics but found it confusing). However he struggles with writing with a pen and drawing or painting. He can spell triangle but can't draw one. Is there a link between his motor problems and language acquisition skills?

We find motor problems are commonly reported in children with XYY. I don't think they cause the language problems: more likely that the XYY affects aspects of neural development that are important for both language and motor skills. Some parents in our studies have told us their sons have benefited from doing activities that involve motor skill (karate I think was one!) and that it has helped with weak muscle tone etc., but obviously it depends on what he most enjoys.

Jeanne I think all labels have their limitations. I have found my son's 'label' of ASD to work mostly against him.

It sets expectations and plunges him into a world of generic provision based on an hour of twilight training which doesn't cover his particular presentation for which the generic interventions are damaging rather than helpful.

@Taramara

Diagnostic substitution and increasing amounts of ASD. Your theories on this as really interesting. I've read your blog post but would love more information. In times past there was classic autism - and then speech and language damages with traits Now it is all in one category

The hard bit is knowing where your child will end up and the new classifications make it harder. Do you have any pointers on how to make a guess?

I'm afraid the little bit of information we have suggests it is really hard to predict outcomes in children with ASD. There was a fascinating very long-term study by Michael Rutter and colleagues; children identified with language comprehension and/or autism at age 5-10 yr followed up to 30 or 40 yr. Outcomes really varied and not easy to predict.
It's a cliche, but I think you just have to hang on in there and take it a day at a time and respond to the changing needs as they emerge.

Like a friend who's child said he wanted to go to the toilet and headed towards it with a teaching assistant running after him with a laminated visual instructing him to take it off her and give it back to her.

I agree all labels have limitations. And some also have benefits.

But that's not exactly the point. The point is that it seems we cannot even talk about dyslexia, because instead, we must first acknowledge it's very fraught to define the condition, and very difficult to know whether or not we should.

Ok, but after acknowledging that, shouldn't we also go on to talk about the experiences someone is having? Whether we call the dyslexia or not?

We cannot possibly insist on a 'coherent and meaningful' use of the word if all discussion of experiences is pre-empted with a warning about the imprecision of the label, can we?

(And, I should have said, sorry, that sounds absolutely rotten for your DS. )

@duplodon

My question is as follows:

What is your perspective on Relational Frame Theory as a psychological theory of human language development and do you think more speech and language therapists should be aware of it?

I find a lot of RFT more elegant and parsimonious and relevant to the work I actually do as a speech and language therapist than traditional Chomskyan language models, particularly in relation to vocabulary teaching (semantics). I haven't heard many of my colleagues mention it and most I've discussed it with have never heard of it.

Sorry I haven't heard of it either!

@JaneAHersey

I experienced significant emotional trauma in my childhood and it impacted on my schooling which was severely limited. I am now 61 and have never been able to open or read a book because it triggers traumatic memories. This problem was not resolved during my time in an intensive psychotherapeutic community However, I can read and have educated myself using the internet, radio and television.

Throughout my childhood I was considered to be of low intelligence and the trauma left me literally without a voice. I feel very strongly that children in similar situations today remain stigmatised and socially excluded not only by professionals but society in general and it seems that the medical profession remain ignorant of the impact of childhood emotional trauma on young people. The attitude remains that you should pull yourself together and face your demons.

Educationally we have a system that only recognises academic success. I would like to know why there so much ignorance and prejudice still surrounds illiteracy in all it's forms.

I have participated in several radio interviews including Carers World Radio. The interviewer concluded by saying that my experiences show that you should never right off any child. Sadly as I have indicated that is not the case.

Thanks Jane for sharing your experiences. There is rather a disconnect between work on emotional problems and academic difficulties in both research and practice, yet they can and do influence one another. In my experience, it's unusual for academic problems to be triggered by a trauma, but obviously it can happen and, as you note, we need to bear that possibility in mind.

Well in education, intervention and support is 'supposed' to be based on need not diagnosis.

I have not accepted a diagnosis of SLI for my son, nor SPD. I can't imagine what possible use they would be to him, since the ASD one hasn't helped much. However, the ASD one has finally got him a decent SALT, who is suggesting strategies for the SLI.

But I had to take him out of the system for it unfortunately. It isn't just children with dyslexia that are being failed by too much circular discussion about presentation and how 'real' or 'relevant' it is. Many children with a dx of ASD are dismissed as having any difficulty due to it not being properly understood, especially if it doesn't present the way their limited training tells them it should.

YY, absolutely agree it's not just children (or adults) with dyslexia being failed.

In practice, support is based on diagnosis. At university, you can access only very limited support without (recent, expensive) diagnosis. It drives me bonkers. I am really trying to work out what I can provide, but it's difficult.

@ArcheryAnnie

Thanks for doing this Q&A!

My question: does dysgraphia have any connection to dyspraxia?

Insofar as both involve problems with motor skills, yes. (But we do run into the labels issue again! I've found many different interpretations of 'dyspraxia').

Many thanks for your reply. Eye pointing is on the agenda at some point and we know DSs receptive language has always been very good. :-)

As Dorothy mentioned, the education 'system' doesn't want to recognise that the conditions need resources and is trying to pass of any difficulties children face, as due to poor teaching.

This makes teachers defensive and unwilling to admit they don't know enough about a child's condition to teach them effectively. The result is often the child is blamed for their difficulties, or the parents.

I have no idea what the solution to this might be. However there are groups of people making noises about it.

educationalrightsalliance.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/roundtable-on-inclusion-in-education_20.html

This group in particular have been trying to bring together professionals, parents and young people with disabilities to find common ground and are having a free 'Roundtable on Inclusion in Education' event on 3rd Feb if you wanted to join.

Of course it would be lovely to see Dorothy there too