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My Dad - I really would appreciate all views

28 replies

charliesmummy · 07/04/2002 02:38

I really would appreciate all thoughts on this, as you will see it has been bothering me for sometime, and induces early morning wakings and tears of frustration.

I am an only child and my darling mother died suddenly in 1990, both my father and I were in complete shock for some time. I was staying with them both over the Christmas Holidays as my husband was away - Gulf War etc. Anyway, my Dad and I were very close (still calling him Daddy etc!)and for the week after her death we were inseparable - holding hands and crying and sleeping in their bed just shaking and frightened.

My husband was flown back for the funeral and as our flat was about to complete we all came to the same conclusion that we would pull out of our buying another immediately and all move in together for support. It worked out ok, and eventually after 5 months we bought another property. Dad would come over and do little jobs, stuff that my dh could have done on his own but my Dad and him did it together, sometimes Dad would stay, sometimes he would drive home, just how he felt. We would talk twice a day on the phone - 'Morning' and 'Goodnight' calls etc or 'are you watching BBC2 - turn over'!.

Within a couple of years my Dad had retired, got a voluntary job for his interest and we all got along just fine, if dh went away, Dad would come and stay for company. Obviously, the greiving process had moved on and in time I introduced him to a couple of women, friends mothers etc, and he found a couple of his own - no problems - very sweet and we would all laugh gently about it togther - he would say what would mummy say etc, very lighthearted.

He eventually met a woman, who he introduced me to, clearly not my mum very different a little brittle, but she was fine and pleasant and obviously good for him and I was OK about that, he needed to be happy and acting as gooseberry with us was not enough, which I understand. Within a couple of years he rented out our family home and moved in with her. Due to job changes we too have moved and are now about 100 miles away.

The change in my father from that day onwards has been dramatic, and in the last 6 years our relationship has deteriorated from 2/3 times a day on the phone to once a month on a Sunday at 10.45, and it goes, weather, more weather - low pressure, wind speed, and degrees celsius, how is .... how is ... and right you are then dear bye.

From the moment I first detected the initial subtle changes, I tried to do something about it, instead of discussing it, my father always says the same thing - 'You don't want me to be happy' and despite my protests that this is NOT the case, that is all he can say.

It came to a head when I suggested that just Dad and I went out for lunch, I just wanted a Father/Daughter 2 hours!, however, this was seen as a huge snub, and he told me in no uncertain terms that this was not how things were done anymore???, even when my mother was alive Dad and I did things without my mum, just as her and I did things without him.

So I suppose it was too much to ask then last year when my child - his first grandchild was born, when I asked him if he would come up and give support to my husband and I, a very firm No was issued. I rang him when I was having contractions and again asked him, and he said that he could not come as she had to have her eyes tested and he was going to drive her to Boots?!! she also drives and has a car. He has later denied any of these conversations happened.

There was also a family funeral my mother's sister died, and there were about 15 mourners and my Dad brought his new partner and introduced her to my mothers family none of which knew that he had either moved 6 years ago or was even attending - so not very close!. He spoke to my mothers brother and said 'don't tell me - I know the face, wait a minute - may I introduce you to .... etc - I could not believe what I was witnessing.

I am taking into account that he is 75 nearly, but since my mother has died he has been around the world, visiting most continents, and so 100 miles to our house seems trivial. They both come up and stay every 3 months or so, but stay in the Pub in the village(?!) we do have plenty of room. I get on with her, we have a laugh at things and she is very good with my son. But I want my Dad on his own just for an hour or so, overnight would be lovely.

I just don't know what to do, or should I do nothing as my husband says and just get over it and change the bloody record.

You may say yes!!! to be honest its times like this as an only (another thread starter) I need someone apart from dh, like a brother or sister to say 'yes, Dad is as mad as a hatter' or 'stop being a spoilt selfish bitch'. I feel that not only did I loose my beloved best friend my mother, but now it appears that I lost my Dad along the way somewhere. I have tried writing and phoning his mobile over the last 6 years but its always met with the same response - 'You don't want me to be happy' - so not true, I just want to be a part of his happiness, and I have also spoken to her about seeing him on his and she says that it is a shame, BUT NOTHING CHANGES.

I really would appreciate all views, just to give me some perspective amongst the fug of it all

OP posts:
robinw · 07/04/2002 08:15

message withdrawn

Zoe · 07/04/2002 09:23

charliesmummy, I'm really sorry to hear that you are having such an upsetting time. I can't really relate properly to what is happening to you as my circumstances are not the same, but what kept coming to me as I was reading your thread was the saying "a daughter's a daughter for all of your life, your son is your son until he finds a wife". Now I know that this doesn't apply to every son/man, I hope to goodness it doens't happen with mine, but is it a man thing? Is it something that happens with men that when they marry they become more involved in thier wife's life and family? I realise that that isn't going to make you feel any better, but it might be an explanation.

In terms of what you can do to deal with it, I wonder if you would find it helpful simply to carry on as you have inviting them over and contacting them and so on, but trying hard to accept that you may not get what you used to have? It would be awful if you ended up not having any kind of relationship with your dad, and from what you say, it doesn't sound like there is any malicious intent on the side of his new wife to cause a rift.

I don't think at all you should "get on with it and change the bloody record"; if it's something that you feel strongly about then it's a valid feeling. Perhaps you could do with having a chat to a sympathetic neutral person about how you're feeling, maybe a charity helpline (Help the Aged or someone might do something??) to see if what you're experiencing is something that others have felt too.

I think its really lovely that you're so caring about your Dad - so many people can't be bothered with elderly relatives, and I bet your Dad does really appreciate it.

WideWebWitch · 07/04/2002 13:50

Hi charliesmummy. Sorry, it must be hard for you.

It sounds to me as if your Dad has just decided (or maybe not consciously even decided, it just happened) that he has his life and you have yours. You have your husband and child and he has a new partner who makes him happy. Those are both good things: so many people end up alone, especially once a lifelong partner has died.

Is it possible that part of it (the not wanting to come and help when you were in labour etc) is to do with the fact that the older people get, the less likely they are to be spontaneous? My mother would never consider just getting in the car and driving to me (150 miles away) unless it was planned in advance, since she just doesn't seem able to cope with unexpected plans as she gets older (she's 60 odd).

Maybe you just have to accept that things may not go back to the way they were: people change. The only thing you can change is your reaction to it.

What about inviting them to stay with you more often, in advance, and trying to all have a nice time together? If they'd rather stay in the pub than with you, there's nothing much you can do about that (except make it clear that they are both welcome to stay with you if they want to). If they want their privacy, that's understandable - could this be about embarrassment at sharing a bed etc? - just a thought! I think in your position I would probably just try to live with it and be glad that I was seeing them. But I do get what you mean, I would want them to stay with me too!

Also, what about you going to see them, with advance warning? Could you do that so that you see your dad more often?

I'm one of 3 children and I realise that it must be difficult not having anyone to share this with, since my siblings and I discuss the rest of the family regularly and get "reality checks". I also think though, it's great that your father is alive, well and happy at 75 and that you do have a relationship of sorts with him.

Don't know if this is any use, but you did say you wanted all views! Good luck.

Marina · 07/04/2002 20:25

Charliesmummy, I had tears in my eyes reading your long, loving post about your dad. My parents are still very much alive and happy together, but my dad is 77 and my mum 73. I hope it is of some consolation for you to know that very possibly it is not that much to do with your dad's second wife. Lately, my loving, lively, interested and supportive parents, who live a long way away, have stopped ringing so often and when they do, their conversations are shorter and somehow don't seem quite so focussed. (I ring them too of course!) I can't quite put my finger on it, but they seem to be slowly losing the ability to empathise with our problems, understand our work situations, etc. This is not meant to be critical of them, we love them very much.
I am lucky to have a sister and we have had the "Are they suffering from pre-Alzheimers?" chat more than once. These are people who flew to Oz for the first time in their lives only four years ago, and are currently moving house, by the way...We came to the conclusion that they love us just as much as ever but are getting more "closed-in" on themselves as they age. They are also much easier to talk to in person than on the phone, by the way, so I totally understand why you felt the need to get him out to lunch - I cherish the times I see my parents now, because our phone chats are so unrevealing.
When you have had a really close relationship with an unusually loving and supportive parent, like you did with your dad, it is all the harder I think, to acknowledge to yourself that they are no longer the fantastic, unselfish live-wire they were even a few years ago.
The reason why they stay in the pub, by the way, could be that your dad is embarrassed about getting up in the night more than once to have a wee, and worried about disturbing you all. My father finally confessed this after we got very grumpy over precisely this issue - they didn't want to stay in our old flat, ever, and we could not understand why.
Good luck - you have had lots of good advice and tips from the other posters, but I just wanted you to know that others have this sinking feeling as they watch super-parent finally start to age.

charliesmummy · 07/04/2002 20:51

Where do I start - thank you so much to you all for taking the time to reply, AND for reading my long waffle. Realy interesting points.

Robinw - good point about the writing of letters, it had crossed my mind and it would be easier to impart news that way.

I think you are all right that he has aged and Marina, spot on about 'losing the ability to empathise'; both my mother and father worked, and my mum did the unsocialble hours thing like me as she was a midwife(I am not), so he has forgotten!.

www - I also think that he has decided,certainly subconsiously; that his job is almost done and he must get on with the remainder of stage 3 (as he calls it!). A daughter being a daughter all of your life certainly rings true Zoe!!.

I will write tomorrow to him - yes, and her ok. And your views - all views were interesting. x

OP posts:
binza · 07/04/2002 21:09

Charliesmummy, It was heartening to read of someone who obviously loves their elderly parent and is feeling a second loss at his change in temperament. I am having to deal with the loss of the mother I knew because she has now suffered two strokes and I now have a totally different Mum to the one I have always known. Instead of the active, join this that and the other group, help out with the grandchildren etc type of person I have an anxious, terrified to be left alone little old lady who sits in a chair for hours on end. I don't want to turn this into a "think yourself lucky" situation I'm just trying to say that your Dad has changed dramatically for whatever reasons and you now have to try and accept that your relationship is somewhat altered but you shouldn't view it as being any less valid. I'm wondering if there might be a little bit of guilt on his part ie being happy with a new partner and that he feels it may be hard for you to witness? It could be that he doesn't stay with you as he feels he shouldn't "rub it in" that he is so happy. I don't really know if this is the case but it was just a thought I had. Try and put those feelings of what you used to have to the back of your mind and enjoy the time you do have with him and his partner. Don't give up seeing them and try to accept your Dad for what he is now. Age does funny things to us all and it's awful to see our parents becoming different people but sadly this is common. He's happy which has to be worth so much peace of mind. Good luck.

tigermoth · 07/04/2002 23:00

Charliesmummy, you put your feelings down so eloquently and I think you've had some wise advice.

When you talk about your father feeling he must get on with stage three of his life, I wonder if talking to you brings back too many painful memories? Perhaps you remind him of your mother so much, and being close to you echoes the painful time after her death. Even if he can't admit it, he has to distance himself because of this. But it comes out as 'you don't want me to be happy' and weather reports instead of conversation. Perhaps it would help if you concentrate on future plans and keep the subject matter very light and upbeat whenever you talk to him?

My MIL is a geriatric nurse and used to run an old people's home. She said one of the major signs of age is the loss of emotion. Old people who do not have alzeheimers can still appear strangely childlike and detached. It is very common. However, can I say something here, which I hope won't upset you. It relates to my mother and for you this is a VERY worst case scenario. I was very close to her and we talked at least once a day on the phone - we lived some distance apart. However, I began to notice the conversations were not as deep as before. My mother stopped voluntering information about her day, and would answer my questions with the same well worn phrases. She also began to say ' I just can't tell you'. I put it, and other slight personality changes, down to age, as did everyone else including doctors, but in fact she had a brain tumour and was beginning to lose her power of speech. This was not diagnosed for a year, and even if we had known earlier the chances are little could have been done. But...

I don't think for a minute that this is what is happening to your father, but can I say, beware of putting too much down to age. If you feel your father has really changed in himself, and there is no physical reason for the changes,(ie going to the loo at night stops him staying over, failing eyesight prevents him driving to see you), then get it checked out and go with him to the doctor. IME aged parents who appear fit and say they are fine, and a busy GP, is not a good combination for diagnoses of a serious problem.

Sorry to end on this pessimistic note. You have been offered so many positive suggestions. Do go with them, but keep this at the back of your mind.

tiktok · 07/04/2002 23:46

Charliesmummy, much of what you say rings a bell with me. Based purely on what I know from experiences in my own family I think your dad may be mentally ill with some form of dementia and may be protecting himself from you finding out, and his wife may be protecting him, too, for the sake of his dignity. Is it possible for you to share your worries with his wife, and offer support and love? And then take it from there? I may be wrong, but I have seen many of the things you describe. The forgetting of conversations you know you have had is very telling. I really wish you well, and him.

charliesmummy · 31/07/2002 21:11

and so it continues ...... it was my Dad's 75th Birthday weekend and they came to stay in the pub (we paid - his present). I organised a big BBQ on the Friday night and that went well, and on the Saturday night we took 10 people out for Dinner, and it was there that his partner made the stunning comment 'Tell me, are you going to be as devoted to Charlie as your own mother was with you' ..... what on earth can that mean?!. Well apart from 'you were and are a spoilt bitch and you are spoiling that child of yours too!?. I mean she never knew my mother, so I feel betrayed for so many reasons; that my father has said that they spoilt me; she is talking about someone who cannot defend herself and why should she have to. I was also very shocked to learn the next day that the whole table were stunned by her comment, and apparently I behaved with grace, I bloody well wanted to throw my red wine at her and tell her to off, and up ya bum - but did'nt. I did leave quietly, and my husband told one of our guests that all of my hard work from the last 7 years or so had gone down the pan because of her tactless comment, I did not know that he thought that so he got brownie points, and he has been a total sweetheart! funny man!.

My husband has MADE me promise not to say anything but the whole weekend was a bloody disaster, in that they were up and out all day Saturday visiting some Country House and went home at 9am on Sunday, quality time with his Grandson? Oh I duuno I am rambling on now.

My best friend said something interesting, that everytime they come up to see us there is always an outrageous comment from her, and that each time she outdoes herself.

What do I do - options are:

Nothing

Get my Dad on his own on the phone and list all the vile things she has said

Writing is not an option - she reads his mail with him as a togetherness thang!

Help required Mumsnetters

OP posts:
pupuce · 31/07/2002 21:55

Charliesmummy - can I ask if you did or what did you do between your initial post and this one... did you say anything to your dad or write ?

Mopsy · 31/07/2002 22:14

Charliesmummy, sorry if this is patronising but are you convinced that your father's partner was definitely being snide, and not genuinely attempting to acknowledge your close relationship with your mum? Sorry if I'm being stupid, I just wondered if you had considered any other interpretation of her remark at all.

duck · 01/08/2002 00:03

Stepmothers (for that's what she is) can be funny people with all sorts of hang ups. Perhaps she feels insecure that you remind your father of time that predates her.

I can't advise you what to do but think there are 2 options

  • either ignore it knowing that most people understand that you are in a difficult situation or
  • perhaps speak to her and say that you know it's difficult etc but it would be nice to have some time with your father etc.

Good luck!

Mooma · 01/08/2002 08:08

Charliesmummy - perhaps your dad has told his new wife, not that your mum spoiled you, but that she was a devoted mother to you and that you had a wonderful relationship.
Does your stepmother have any kids? Maybe she is just a little in awe of you.

Lindy · 01/08/2002 09:02

Charliesmummy - sorry you are feeling so down but I have to agree with Mopsy that there could easily be another interpretation to your step-mother's comment ... I know its easier said that done but if I were you I would really try not to read too much into it.

All relationships change over time (and this is often a good thing) it sounds great that your dad is happy & independent - so many elderly parents end up relying totally on their children for support & this cannot be a good thing.

Sorry if this sounds preachy - but just trying to give another perspective.

Batters · 01/08/2002 12:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

charliesmummy · 01/08/2002 19:27

Thanks for your comments - Batters - I do happen to agree - EVERYONE was stunned, it was, as usual intended to hurt and did and yes the comments do get more and more hurtful and outrageous! Pupuce - nothing - I did nothing, nadda I know that sounds a bit odd, and very out of character maybe thats why I have such a problem - I am Madam Confrontational, and letting things slide all of the time makes me feel bad. It was so good just to sound off that I felt better having put it in writing. I did phone and say that I loved him. But he is soooo happy with her and I really think that he won't know what I am on about. You see he is such a weak man, and like a chameleon he has morfed into her partner and has absorbed her opinions.

My father used to be quite liberal in his views, now he is homophobic and racist. He would not rent out his house to an Indian Doctor because the smell of 'their food' would have ruined the curtains!!!!!!!! SHOCKING, I work in television and he thinks that my gay friends are going through a phase (her words are worse). Where has he gone? anyway after much deliberation this is what I have decided - I will of course be chamring and when they come up again, AND if she steps out of line again sod it all I will go for the jugular, because I am wasting so much time thinking about it and feeling like I have let her get away with it, and for the sake of my lovely mummy who would never have let anyone get away with anything for the sake of a peaceful life - it will make me feel a lot better - so there you have it.

Thank you all I will of course keep you informed!. Batters - what conclusion did your relative come to about the other person? just healthy interest!

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 01/08/2002 21:40

Charliesmummy, just read your recent post. Sorry things haven't got much better. I agree that you could have asked "what exactly do you mean by that?" politely and waited for a reply. She would then have had to come clean and reveal any hidden agenda or back down. Written down it seems a fairly innocuous remark but I realise that tone of voice, facial expression and relationship history may mean that it was anything but. If you're that cross, could you call her, be acidly polite, say that it's bothering you and ask her to elaborate?

Rhubarb · 01/08/2002 21:56

I can fully sympathise with this one Charliesmummy! I have an equally obnoxious stepfather. He has been in my life since I was about 10, but it wasn't until I was about 12 that he became such a bully to me. I used to spend hours in my bedroom rather than be in his presence. He would completely ignore me, acting as if I wasn't there. If I so much as made myself a sandwich in the kitchen he would say something like "Was your tea not enough for you?" whilst giving me a filthy look. I was so thin was I was younger, my mother was never very generous with her food, and his attitude to me just made me thinner. Even when I got older and was paying my mum rent, he would hate my making myself any kind of snack. Very often when I came in from school/work he would look at me like a piece of dogs**t and leave the room. He would make snide remarks to me out of earshot of my mum, he took away all of my confidence and self-esteem and it wasn't until I met my husband that I began to grow into a woman.

Unfortunately I still have to see this vile man, and he still makes horrible remarks to me, one I remember was when we were all having a meal and I was sat between my mum and my aunt from Canada whom I hadn't seen in years, he said "A thorn between two roses" and laughed, no-one stuck up for me. My mum sends my dd cards signed from Nana and Grandad and I tear them up. I have kept all of her birth cards but scribbled out his name on my mums.

Like you I put up with these remarks to keep the peace. However not long ago I had a spat with my mum and I told her what I thought of her partner, since then she has been cool towards me and he has just been as vile as ever. Now I am thinking like you, that the next time he makes such a snide comment I will say in a loud voice "What exactly do you mean by that? Is it meant to be funny?" because I refuse to be put down by him any longer in front of my dd.

So my heart goes out to you. I don't know why these people think they can bully us, maybe to boost their own confidences, to make themselves look and feel good. Well not any longer eh? You tell her how it feels next time, show her up for the horrible woman that she is! And if she doesn't talk to you ever again? Well that's no loss is it!

charliesmummy · 01/08/2002 23:02

Rhubarb - bless you. There I am going on about Her .... and reading your post - how bloody terrible for you. God is it a huge lesson is'nt it for us all, how not to treat people or should I say children, you must feel so betrayed by your mother. If there is an after life (not another thread starter - promise) I just know my mother would give them both such a mouthful.

I failed to mention something else that she had already said to me earlier on in the day, and that was when Charlie was on the edge of a huge step and he shouted 'hand mummy' and I picked him up (as I always do when he gets to this step as its far too big a jump) and she said 'you pick that child up far too much - next time I am going to say what really want to 'oh why don't you just shut the up' god this is fun. I am smiling now with wicked glee. As she cannot seem to stop herself and the comments do get so much harsher every visit I feel like I should engineer another one - sod's law she will let me down.

Thank you all, WWW - stanby no more the peace maker from me. I'm on leave for a couple of weeks and we are going to France so I will be out of contact, speak to you all soon, bye! xx and thank you - this is why mumsnet is so good. I really must try and get to a get together, anyone fancy an end of summer BBQ without Kids for a whole day in rural Wiltshire!

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 01/08/2002 23:05

If that's on a train journey from Preston then count me in!!! Have a great holiday Charliesmummy - when you get back we should start a new thread thinking of all the smart comments we could say back to wicked and evil step-parents! Should be fun!!!

Batters · 02/08/2002 10:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Elf · 11/08/2002 20:03

I'm almost speechless, I just clicked on to this thread by accident almost and am sad for people of course but it is so great hearing about other people's similar situations. I too have an evil stepmother and a father who appears to want to distance himself more and more - so many similar things in all your stories.

I've in fact recently come clean to my dad about my feelings, having, like Charliesmummy been awake at night etc and been sick of being so angry inside about it. However, it has all gone awry! He's v angry at what I said and I'm now even angrier than I was before I said anything! However, I am no longer awake at night making up fantasy conversations etc which is a real relief.

There is no end to my saga , I am thinking of agreeing with him that we accept each other as we are but then just only seeing him about once a year. I was going to tell you what a vile thing evil stepmother told us last Christmas but then I realised that I was pissed off that she told us when we were new parents and I wouldn't want to upset any mumsnetters, suffice to say, she too can pretend to be nice but every visit there's a knife coming out. Personally I feel that she is a very unhappy woman and therefore all the bitchy stuff just comes out too easily.

Anyway, just wanted to say good old mumsnet, excellent support again, just knowing other people know where you are coming from. And Charliesmummy hope you had a great holiday.

JayTree · 11/08/2002 21:34

I read this thread a couple of days ago and it has been on my mind since then - I really do sympathise Charliesmummy, it must be awful for you, especially after the love and support that you have shown your father since your mum passed away. It is hard enough accepting a new partner?s parent when they are pleasant and friendly, but when they are openly hostile it is really awful. It is understandable that you are very angry at your dad for not sticking up for you when she makes these remarks - it must feel like a double betrayal.
However, as you obviously care so deeply for him, it sounds to me like it would be a real shame if you can?t find a way around this and build up your relationship again. One way to do this is to deal with the MIL first.
Unless she is insane, there is probably some logical explanation (not an excuse) for her awful behaviour. Perhaps she feels threatened by you - your dad is likely to have talked very highly of you and your relationship with him, this may well have made her feel insecure. I can sort of empathise with this. I once went out with a lad whose previous girlfriend had died in a car crash. Everyone used to talk about Jo as if she were some saint - how pretty she was, how good a cook, how she always had perfect dress sense etc. They were never trying to put me down but it felt like every comment was a put down. I started to feel like I was competing with a dead saint and wanted to strangle her. Then I felt so guilty about having these feelings that just one comment or reminder of her would put me into a really defensive and angry mood. I guess what I am trying to say in a clumsy way is that her terrible and inexcusable behaviour may well be stemmed out of insecurity and misplaced jealousy. She could feel threatened by the wonderful relationship that your mum and dad enjoyed together and when you are around it could just compound her feelings. I may be way off the mark, but it could be worth thinking about.

If I were in your shoes, I would avoid confrontation as it could make things a lot worse. How about showing her that you are a great mum and daughter by spending time letting her get to know you? Next time you all meet up arrange to go shopping or for a coffee just the two of you. if you make the first move and act as if you were genuinely trying to get to know her, she might let down her guard and slowly realise who you are. Without your dad around she might even behave a little bit more normally. You will have to swallow a lot of bad feeling initially but it could be worth it. If it all goes wrong, well, you have the satisfaction of knowing that you made a huge effort and have peace of mind that at least you acting like a grown up even if she can?t. It could also show your dad that you are going out of your way to be part of his new life.
Whatever happens, good luck.
Hope this rambling message is useful to you.

monkey · 12/08/2002 09:14

Instead of the confrontational approach & having a go ( I absolutely cannot do this, much as wish I could, and like Elf, usually keep myself awake & stressed with imaginary conversations that I wish I'd had the courage to have. The rare times I do try & speak up I get so clunsy I make it worse & feel worse. So for me, although I widh I could come out with a razor-sharp comment to knock it on the head, I just fluff it & feel even worse, although like I said 99% of the time, I just torture myself about it.)

Having grown up with a snide & spiteful sister, I ahcve also frequently tried the nice approach - either ignoring the comment or trying to 'make firends' and I have found this hasn't worked for me either. I just feel even more hurt & betrayed & stupid for having made the effort & being rejected again.

I suppose a 3rd way could be just saying something along the lines of "I don't appreciate that sort of comment" (eg when she critisises your parenting skills) then running for it (in a dignified manner).

Asking "what do you mean by that" is inviting further comment, when perhaps you just want to shut her up & hopefully stop her / put her off making further comments to you. maybe you could think of some final, cutting comments that hopefully will make it clear you don't like what she's said, without giving her the lead to carry on the discussion, then maybe she might stop.

I also feel maybe speaking to your dad against her might at this stage just make the situation worse, as he seems to be sticking up for her, so you might drive him further to her and from you. It must be so hard.

I think everybody here has given great advice. I suppose it's down to your personality & hers which variation might work best for you.

The very best of luck. Hope you enjoy your holiday.

bayleaf · 12/08/2002 12:32

I have to say I agree with Monkey and jayTree- be very careful before embarking on any confrontation - for the initial exhilaration of fighting back may come months or years of heart ache over it.
My mother was in a similar sitaution to your when her mother died and her father had a housekeeper move in who then became 'more than a house keeper' - tho was never a wife. I don't honestly think he loved her enough to marry her BUT she was his day to day support and company and he valued her enormously.
She was a bitter vindictive old bat and LOVED causing trouble between my Mum and her father - and caused mum many many tears and much heart ache.
The few times it came to a 'her or me' type situation it was always 'her' just because she made his everyday life happy, however much he loved my mum he seemed to think ( as your dad seems to imply) that if she really loved him then her whole desire would be for him to be happy ( ie with the housekeeper without feathers being ruffled)regardless of the effect on her - if the situation didn't suit her well tough, it wasn't her day to day happiness that depended on her relationship with him.
There was no simple answer for my Mum - she simply had to find ways of living with it - the 'best' it ever was for her was when she was at her most charming and accommodating to the old cow ( as you have been)- Rising to her bait made everything much much worse.

I have to also add that my inlaws always want to stay in a nearby travel lodge despite us haveing a lage house and plenty of spare bedrooms - and despite clearly doting on dd they stayed for an hour of the time when she was 'up' last time they came ( for lunch so she was asleep for 2 hours)then said they had to be getting back ( 100 miles) as they didn't want to get back too late. It was June and they left at about 3.30pm - hardly living dangerously - but as Marina and others have said - as parents get past 70 they just do start to behave a little 'oddly'.
Sorry I didn't have anything more uplifting to add
Best of luck
Bayleaf

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