Scottish Referendum debate: Alistair Darling and Alex Salmond, Wednesday September 10th, 1.45-2.45pm

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,

We're delighted to announce that Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling will both be joining us on Mumsnet this Wednesday at 1.45pm, to take part in a live debate in the lead-up to the Scottish Referendum on September 18th.

The decision with which Scottish voters are faced this month constitutes a significant moment in the history - and future - of Scotland and the UK. And with polls currently predicting a result that's too close to call, this final showdown between the two leaders could potentially prove decisive.

The debate will be conducted along typical Mumsnet webchat lines, but with each guest free to question and respond to the answers of the other. We know the referendum has been a topic of serious discussion on the site (we're currently on IndyRef thread number seven - and counting ...) so in order to ensure that the leaders answer your questions, we're restricting the ability to post to Mumsnetters who'd been members of the site for more than 24 hours before the launch of this thread. Otherwise, the usual guidelines apply.

Please join us on Wednesday at 1.45pm - and if you can't make it then, as ever, do post up any comments or questions in advance.

Sarah - renewable energy - I remember the Yes leaflet about that ...but actually they avoided mentioning wind farms as they aren't too popular - spoil the scenery etc for the tourists ...that leaflet is one of the major reasons for my decision to vote No.
Scotland has lots of coastline, mountains and water etc - it COULD be a major renewable energy generator - and indeed it could. BUT - and this is a massive but - the investment needed to build the infrastructure to transport that power would be massive - not to mention the tourists not being particularly keen on the glens filled with pylons to take the electricity down to Glasgow/Edinburgh etc. FYI I'm a great believer in renewables but wind generation (both on and off shore) is currently heavily subsidised -without the subsidies companies wouldn't get the investment needed to develop them...they would never make their money back...where is that subsidy going to come from? Where is the money for the initial investment going to come from?
GreenI want to give my grandchildren that opportunity - precisely why I'm voting no. I don't want my children or my grand children and my great grandchildren to suffer the financial consequences of a Yes vote - the consequences of my stupidity.
Tatoos and rock music - wow really how terrifying - you wouldn't think that I had had friends from all walks of life - from junkies to titled gentry would you? I moved here from somewhere that had 1500+ reported crimes in a month - approx a third of them violent - and I loved living there -lived there for as long as I have lived where I do now - here we had zero crime in the same month...very different and I love living here too ...maybe I wouldn't love it as much if I hadn't lived where I lived before ...and funnily enough I want my children to have the same opportunities - to be able to make the same choices...

unlucky83 wind farms arguments are subjective, personally I like the deployment of turbines in Cornwall and much less the large farms such as Braes of Doune or Whitelees. But I would rather see them than a large nuclear facility on my doorstep. I agree that tidal could be better. However neither is any use without a underwater connector to mainland Europe which UK Gov won't licence in Scotland, Energy surplus has to be routed via England that makes no sense to me.

Agreed Unlucky83, I don't believe my children and grandchildren will have as good or better opportunities in an independent Scotland, I think they will have fewer.

Green Where is the money for the infrastructure going to come from? If it was that simple and cost effective we (as the UK) would be doing it ...why not? The Uk is running at a deficit - there is a desperate need to increase income - so why hasn't it already happened?
And that leaflet is typical of what I've read from the Yes side - by all means make a decision based on your heart, your convictions, but don't pretend that it actually makes financial sense. Voting Yes is a bit like buying something you really want but don't need on your credit card - you will pay more for it. For you it might well be worth it.
Just hope future generations and the other half of the country can see it that way...

PlasticPinkFlamingo - "Hey Sarah want to explain how Scotland's renewables sector will continue to flourish without the subsidies paid by energy bill payers in rUK? Or do you expect the sector to continue receiving the same level of subsidies post independence?"

Hi there PPF, I can't claim to have any specialist knowledge of windfarms. I do know that rUK will be unable to meet their targets for renewables without the energy already generated in Scotland, so this will be part-sold back down south in the event of a YES vote. I know there is a thriving community owned windfarm model that operates in the Highlands and Hebrides, and that generates substantial wealth for community development. Outwith this, Scotland is a country at the forefront of renewable r&d with the EMEC being the largest wave and tidal energy center in the Europe if not the world.

Agreed Unlucky83, I don't believe my children and grandchildren will have as good or better opportunities in an independent Scotland, I think they will have fewer.

I wonder if you could expand on that a bit more for us StatsitciallyChallenged. What do you feel the UK provides now under the austerity of a Tory government that could not be available come Independence? Thx.

For me Sarah that would be summed up in one word:

Hope.

Unlucky - "Voting Yes is a bit like buying something you really want but don't need on your credit card - you will pay more for it. For you it might well be worth it."

In theory, if it were the case that you could pay more tax for a better standard of living for all, and society with more equal opportunity in prosperity, housing, food etc, would you be willing to pay that? I think I would consider it well worth it.

However, it is only your interpretation that independence is something we don't need. Many disagree. Many feel that we are now best placed to stop being the 40 year old, living at home getting hand outs from our parents. We want to prosper as a country and feel we are best placed to take the power from Westminster to administer our own money and tackle our own problems.

That said, an Independent Scotland would be in the top 20 wealthiest countries in the world. We are resource rich with a trillion pounds of North Sea resources, and a trillion pounds of oil this week scoped off the north of Scotland (Atlantic Margin). We represent 8.3% of the UK by population, yet we possess 32% land area, 61% sea area, 90% surface fresh water. We have 65% North Sea gas production, 96.5 North Sea crude oil production, 47% Open cast coal production, 81% Coal reserves, 62% Timber production, almost half of all forestry etc etc. Not too shabby?

I've outlined upthread the scale of cuts that we would possibly have to make. It would be exceptionally difficult to achieve that with hitting education. If we were independent but in the EU, chances are we would have to offer free tuition to English students - there is a possibility of arguing for an exemption from the rules requiring non discrimination but it would be tricky to secure and is by no means certain. We're more likely to lose the free tuition fees than to keep them.

And then we get on to the economic issues. Business do not like instability. They do not seek instability. It's easy to dismiss the banks and finance companies. But they provide great opportunities for many bright youngsters. There is also a huge trickle down of the money they bring to the economy - it's not just the actual financial services employees but all the other local businesses which rely upon the money they bring in to the local economy. They won't be the only businesses to move, downsize or just avoid an unstable Scotland.

The public sector is already bigger in Scotland than in the rest of the UK - that probably would not be sustainable even without the need to make cuts. There is no good reason for us to have a public sector which is proportionately bigger than the UK. We have 21% PS, they have 18%. The difference is another 78000 jobs.

I don't see a world of amazing opportunities in an independent Scotland for my child. I see one of limited horizons - and it will be worse for the poorest children.

Sarah do you have real life experience in any of Scotland's industries?

greengardenpixie- your statement is abhorrent.
People die in illegal wars a damn sight more painfully than those in their cancer beds. No one wants cancer but surely it is a result of our industrial past and colonial past. Look back in GRO death certs and you will see people died of natural causes and old age - insatiable appetite to label merely allows big business to keep you scared.

Are you seriously dismissing death from cancer less painful than other types of death? And the pain experienced as negligible?

Deaths of UK military personnel in Afghanistan (since start of conflict in 2002-present) 458.
Deaths in UK from cancer for 2011 alone 159,178.

I am saddened by the loss of even one single life of service personnel, and I am grateful to each and every person that serves, protecting the lives of me and my loved ones. However, the number of people affected by cancer and its aftermath is enormous- I seriously doubt there is any UK family untouched by its shadow.

Well said NerfHerder.

What I can envisage is this generation's youth cursing its selfish predecessors for turning a prosperous part of the UK into an independent, poverty stricken backwater with low opportunities, and having to negotiate back into the UK on much less favourable terms from a low bargaining position.

@ Statstically challenged, thanks for that. Ultimately, as with any act of democracy, we are talking about out own interpretation of the facts presented to us - and try to marry them the best we can to our world view.

I believe I share in the surge of optimism apparently sweeping the country that the time is right to take back the powers of self determination. Right now that is what this election is about - where power lies. In two years time, if there is a YES vote, we will decide, as a country and a democracy, on the political approach that our country will take and duly elect the people we believe to have the correct vision for that job. For now, it is enough for me to have studied the resources that are/will be available to us and know that they will be more than enough for us to build our independent Scotland - and what's more, for us to prosper.

I do not understand your point of view that your children will be better under the status quo, but that does not matter, it is your opinion and belief and I respect that. I personally have seen enough in the repeating patterns of run-down public services, an NHS a shadow of it's former self, public wealth being passed to "legal" criminals in the banking sector, policy mismanagement that serves to preserve the wealth of the rich and make things increasingly tough on the poor, child poverty, decreasing standards of education, house overinflation/shortage etc. I assert that is has left us a nation depressed and bereft of hope. I aspire again to appoint a political regime that better fits the need of my country and its people, and one at that which will invest heavily in basic services like the NHS, that will eliminate extreme child poverty, improve healthcare standards in Scotland, enshrine again equality of public service such as Royal Mail etc. These are things I believe are vital to the efficient functioning of a country and which bring with them the most vital ingredient of all, that which @BardarbungaBardarbing mentioned, and which has been reduced to such a small level in this country: hope. That is what I want for my children and grandchildren that has not and will not happen under any successive Tory or pseudoTory UK government.

Come Thursday, whatever will be will be. I am sure you have enjoyed, as I have, the political mobilisation of the people in a way we have never seen before. Whatever the outcome, that aspect of the country will not be the same for a long time. Along the way, we have gleaned insight into the devious lengths the ruling elite of our country will go to to prevent the free flow of democracy against their own agendas. The country has seen this in a way that few have seen before. Even many of our neighbours to the south are outraged at this - and this can only be good for the political future of the country. The people have awoken.

You're really taken in by all that, aren't you Sarah? I mean, you actually have fallen for it.

You might want to google "groupthink".

Sarah do you have real life experience in any of Scotland's industries?

As opposed to pretend life experiences? Perhaps a tad rude on the phrasing there @BardarbungaBardarbing, but I assume that is not what you intended! ;)

I do have experience in several large industries in Scotland, both in private companies and as a public servant. It is probably not relevant to talk about in much detail though?

Sarahscotia - I was just wondering if there is any doubt at all in your mind that the new society you describe will actually happen if there is a yes vote?

Would you still vote yes, if you knew for a fact that it won't happen?

Its a hypothetical question. I, personally, think Scotland is in severe danger of getting the polar opposite of what you describe, but only time will tell. I was just wondering if this is what yes votes are based upon?

PS How low will the wages have to be to get that coal out of the ground in a way that competes with imports?

You cannot argue logic against unmitigated idealism. You have a bucketload of the latter, but your posts show little evidence of the former.

You sounded so idealistic I wondered!

Good Luck.

I assert that is has left us a nation depressed and bereft of hope.

and this is an utterly grim statement. You really need a sense of perspective if you think that Scotland is a nation depressed and bereft of hope. Look at some of the things going on in other countries around the world. I feel neither depressed nor bereft of hope, although as this referendum approaches...To say that we are such a nation plays to a collective sense of victimhood which does us no favours.

I didn't mean to be rude but your post came across as a PR spin type of thing rather than a real person talking from experience. I 've run out of time to be super polite!

I'm very impressed with your typing speed!

You're really taken in by all that, aren't you Sarah? I mean, you actually have fallen for it.You might want to google "groupthink".

Perhaps we can respect each others ability to think and determine for ourselves what is the best course of action for us to take? I could equally turn things back to you and say that you have been hoodwinked by the agenda of the ruling elite to slowly sell off the assets of this country piece by piece while the people are sleeping/feeling increasingly lucky just to still have a roof over their heads. They really have actually sucked you right in, haven't they? Perhaps you might want to google "sheeple". Not to mention the fact that you sing right along on the hymnsheet of perhaps the most disgusting afront to democracy I have witnessed in this country in my years on the planet in #projectfear and #BiasedBroadcastingCorporation.

I could, but I shant. ;) We can try and point this stuff out to each other in friendship and respect, but ultimately I hope we are bringing our best informed understanding to the table.

Peace.

I 've run out of time to be super polite!

Hey, I have a thick skin. I will settle for respectful? ;)

I'm very impressed with your typing speed!

This keyboard runs on red wine! ;)

Did I fail to show sufficient respect?