Scottish Referendum debate: Alistair Darling and Alex Salmond, Wednesday September 10th, 1.45-2.45pm

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,

We're delighted to announce that Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling will both be joining us on Mumsnet this Wednesday at 1.45pm, to take part in a live debate in the lead-up to the Scottish Referendum on September 18th.

The decision with which Scottish voters are faced this month constitutes a significant moment in the history - and future - of Scotland and the UK. And with polls currently predicting a result that's too close to call, this final showdown between the two leaders could potentially prove decisive.

The debate will be conducted along typical Mumsnet webchat lines, but with each guest free to question and respond to the answers of the other. We know the referendum has been a topic of serious discussion on the site (we're currently on IndyRef thread number seven - and counting ...) so in order to ensure that the leaders answer your questions, we're restricting the ability to post to Mumsnetters who'd been members of the site for more than 24 hours before the launch of this thread. Otherwise, the usual guidelines apply.

Please join us on Wednesday at 1.45pm - and if you can't make it then, as ever, do post up any comments or questions in advance.

But Greengardenpixie it IS about how we will ALL contribute to the economy of an independent Scotland.

If you want to be emancipated from the UK monetary policy then I take it you support starting up a brand new currency from scratch.

I just want to know for you as someone who is a firm nationalist, what do you see yourself doing differently? What do we all need to do differently to contribute to the new economy?

You do know that Scotland are included in 'UK MPs' don't you!?

Turnout was too low to analyse in that way. That overwhelming victory came from 26% of the electorate. And this was the Scottish parliament elections, so it really isn't possible to blame WM for apathy.

Quite simply wrong.

No, quite simply right.

in 2011-12

8.4% of the UK population
8.3% of the UK's total output
8.3% of the UK's non-oil tax revenues
9.2% of total UK public spending

In 2012-13,
Taking a per capita view of North Sea Oil, Scotland had 8.2% of revenue, or, geographically, 9.0%.
9.3% of total UK public spending in 2012-13.

AnnieHoo
I can agree it is about that we all contribute to the economy but not necessarily how we contribute, there are other ways than purely financial.

Yes I would be more than happy to be fully emancipated from UK monetary policy and for me the currency union arguments are pointless I have neither a desire to keep the pound or not, but it is as much Scotlands pound as it is anyone else's. I would be quite happy with the Scottish pound or Euro but I defer to the arguments that both Scotland and rUK would be better off.

I see Scotland having a better fairer socially accepting outlook. Take employment as an example, many people I know purposely sacrifice some of their career opportunities to take up flexible working opportunities, this often requires sacrifice on material wealth (important to many) I don't see the benefits or betterment by acquisition of property and gadgets, I instead see most of my colleagues putting family first - they work to live not live to work.

Staying with the UK ratrace doesn't offer that, in fact the Tories are already making huge regressive steps to unpick all of the good work Labour introduced.

Greengardenpixie, it wasn't an overwhelming victory for SNP. Just look through this thread and you will see the figures. Will you be so happy with an independent Scotland if one day the Tories are in charge , or Labour?

I see Scotland having a better fairer socially accepting outlook

Great now we are back to the Scottish people are better than everyone else argument

rino again the point is missed, at least the people of Scotland will get the government they vote for, if that is Tory so be it, (although highly unlikely). Why is it so difficult to understand we want to choose.
Ask yourself if you would be happy walking into a car showroom to buy the latest Audi to be told you can't have that your only allowed a Vauxhall you would never accept that. Apply that principle to every decision you want to make and you would utterly reject those that were deciding for you.

EarthWindFire I didn't say Scottish people are better than everyone else please don't distort my words with your derisory comments.

Apply that principle to every decision you want to make and you would utterly reject those that were deciding for you.

Except those pesky devolved matters? Because the last time I looked, agriculture, forestry and fisheries, education and training, environment, health and social services, housing, law and order, local government, sport and the arts, tourism and economic development and many aspects of transports were actually controlled by the Scottish parliament.

Ask yourself if you would be happy walking into a car showroom to buy the latest Audi to be told you can't have that your only allowed a Vauxhall you would never accept that

That's not how an election works, so your analogy is false.

greengardenpixie

I understand the "live to work not work to live" idea but we need people paying taxes so we can afford to build schools and maintain infrastructure etc. We also need people to spend money so that shops and businesses can thrive again.

If we are in a currency union or we use the Euro we will never be truly independent.

I also want to live in socially just fair society. Infact those are the exact words of the First Minister of Wales used this week when pleading for Scotland to Vote No for "solidarity and social justice". I think we could persuade you yet !

Scotland absolutely does receive more than it puts in.

The GERS report contains a lot of figures. Even the summary shows why our politicians are shouting at cross purposes:

In the last 5 years the average contribution by Scotland, including a "geographic share" of oil revenue is 9.54% of UK total, or £52863 million. We receive 9.28%., or £63139 million. This is because the UK as a whole is running a huge deficit. Which values are quoted depends on which side folk are on! Last year the % we put in was 9.1%(£53147 million inc geo share) and we got back 9.3% (£65,205 million)

I apologise you said Scotland. However your 'observations could also be said about people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I know of people in England aswell as Scotland who have also done as you have said. It isn't exclusive to Scotland.

StatisticallyChallenged very selective of you to pick just the last five years. Scotland has for decades /centuries received less than its fair share not just in finances but in awards of licence to generate wealth. One of the single biggest abuses of power by the London powerbase was the shameful act of apportioning trading licences, where English ports were favoured over the west of Scotland ports. Scottish eastern ports trade with Europe and had little interest in west coast routes. Glasgow merchants were effectively forced to break the law to operate across the Atlantic and through adversity became the success to be granted the dubious honour of "Second City of the Empire". But because they were successful, England only allowed their operation to continue because they could legally tax the merchants. School playground bully stealing someones lunch money.

It is my perception that your arguments are rendered impotent as I believe because Scotland has had to fight for everything it has, it expects exactly the reaction we have seen from Westminster over the last few days. Ask yourself why are the polls still putting everything on a knife edge despite the best efforts of the Westminster elite and big business scare stories. We have found UK Gov out and we're leaving.

Finally, as if you need reminding, its no longer about the past its about the future, Britain is a relic, a mere husk of a former colonial empire that is drawing its last breath.

Look at the commonwealth of nations, an huge array of diversity spawned by Britain during the dark days of slavery and penal colonies amongst others. All ultimately rejected Britain, often violently, to pursue a self determined path. Most have done remarkable things and are hugely successful, some still have more to do but at least they are able to achieve their success on their terms.

Its Scotland's turn next and it will be a yes victory on the 18th. Then the Westminster house of cards will tumble, NI may join rest of Ireland, Wales may not be content to continue as the last occupied territory. Westminster's powerbase in the global context will be gone forever and we will shout with joy and be delighted like the abused chuld watching the convicted paedo is marched away

I quoted the last 5 years because that is what the last GERS report shows. 5 years is a perfectly reasonable timeframe to consider.

My arguments are not impotent. The only thing this will hurt is people's futures. Your arguments are based on anger and rhetoric.

Its Scotland's turn next and it will be a yes victory on the 18th.

Can you pass your crystal ball around?

Westminster's powerbase in the global context will be gone forever and we will shout with joy and be delighted like the abused chuld watching the convicted paedo is marched away

Seriously!

Oh for goodness sake. You did not, surely, just compare the relationship between Scotland and Westminster to that of a sexually abused child and a paedophile?

At that point, any attempt to call my argument impotent becomes utterly lost. I thought the abused spouse rhetoric was disgusting but that completely and utterly blows it out of the water.

Greengardenpixie.. sorry you are so bitter.

StatisticallyChallenged That is the problem with such a discussion /debate, I did not say your arguments were impotent, I said it is my perception that your arguments ... which is a wholly different concept, and since it is my perception you cannot say it is right or wrong. If you are happy to continue to select only the words you want to use then we will go round in circles and get nowhere.

I understand what the word perception means. My response was still perfectly valid. I could say "it is my perception that you are a fool" and you could reply with "I am not a fool". That would be a valid response to a perception.

Greengardenpixie Vile.

Yes I have been known to take things too far but sometimes these things need to be said, I apologise. However lets look at the recent track record of Westminster and corporate institutions supporting it. I don't want to be part of a world that thinks banking scandals, Libor rate rigging, corrupt politician expenses claims, phone hacking, BBC cover ups (Saville et al), Catholic priest abuses the list goes on and on. Scotland has the chance to break free of that and become something that offers hope. Hope of a better future for not only Scots but those living in rUK as when you see what we have you will demend it too.

StatisticallyChallenged again you misread my words. I didn't say you "didnt understand" what perception meant I was merely remarking on the fact that you ignored it in your reply. I cannot be held responsible for your misinterpretation of my words. and we're still going nowhere.

You are not some omnipotent genius who has amazing insight that none of us have. I see what we have, very clearly. I do not think what we have warrants tearing the country in two.

We have most of those scandals in Scotland too.

We're going nowhere because you are spouting rhetoric and hyperbole based on what appears to be your assumption that you know so much more than everybody else, and everybody else is just blinded by propaganda. No. We are not. I have done extremely detailed analysis and I fundamentally disagree with your conclusions. That is why we are going nowhere.

Oh, and because you brought pedophiles in to the argument.

StatisticallyChallenged you should change your login to factually inaccurate as we are not tearing a country in two we are attempting to separate two countries - Scotland is a country in its own right

Greengarden, Cardinal Winning? Vale of Leven abuse? Edinburgh City Council corruption?

These things are not just in the rest of the UK. Here and now.
Your analogy was disgusting by the way.