Webchat with Edward Timpson, children's minister, on the upcoming SEND changes; TUESDAY 15 JULY at 12.15pm

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

As lots of you will know, the Children and Families Act comes into force in September, and with it some changes to the systems around special educational needs.

We know this is a topic many MN posters are deeply involved with. You may remember we've previously had chats about this with Sarah Teather (when she held the relevant government post) and with Edward Timpson himself a while back.

Edward says: 'We've been preparing for the big changes happening in SEND from September. We've been working with local authorities, parents, children, young people and many of our partner organisations in health and education to reform the systems for children with special educational needs and disabilities. I've been looking forward to discussing these changes with you as I know that SEND is a topic of great interest to many Mumsnetters.'

We hope you can join us on the day; as ever, if you can't please post up your questions in advance.

Thanks
MNHQ

Thanks but the answer I got didn't actually answer my question!

Same with mine. About the only time he gave an answer that wasn't meaningless spin was the one about the autism debate, and he blatantly chose to ignore all the more difficult questions.

It was, shall we say, interesting that the massively supportive zarabowden happened to turn up for the very first time on MN on this thread.

Icimoi agree with your last two posts!

Parent Carer Forum. I don't know how they count 'membership'. Being on a mailing list?

Good question

I think there can be a kind of 'Stockholm syndrome' feeling to working on reforms.

People don't want to stand out or challenge too loudly as it is very easy for those with any power to make them feel very isolated or make them feel like they are being demanding, inappropriate or aggressive.

Moderation is always more publicly acceptable and it is too easy to kid yourself that it is best to work 'with the system' to make everyone 'nicer' and 'change hearts and minds' by being supportive of them.

But this misses the point about why the problems in the system occur in the first place.

Unfortunately, this approach means some groups get very excited about being asked to speak to a Minister or having the DfE look like they're listening to them. It makes them feel powerful or as if their views are being taken into account.

But what changes as a result?

Nothing of any measure in terms of system change - a few crumbs off the table at best. And the Government get the fig leaf of saying 'we're working with X, Y or Z'.

I always remember that Nye Bevan said - "We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down."

I think the standard of provision for children with SEN and the culture and expectations within that are just so very low that anything vaguely sensible sounds radical,

• and very few parents whose children are in the hands of this 'provision' feel confident enough to raise things for fear of not being taken seriously when their own child's provision is up for review.

In 6 schools, - yes 6, I have never seen a SMART target despite termly IEPs. Professionals in the field need very targeted training on how to take data and measure progress meaningfully.

This hasn't been helped by the recent years of forced data-collection on trivial things.

Does the minister know that Speech and Language Therapists are required to keep data, and are monitored on a whole range of things, none of which include outcomes for the children they work for?

You're right - the failure to know how to measure outcomes is appalling. I think there is little that sounds radical even with these very low expectations!

Even LA staff seem only to foresee more bureacracy and further cuts - perhaps the Minister should try listening to front line LA staff and schools as well as parents?

And Speech and Language 'supervision' covers topics such as whether the member of staff is managing their caseload efficiently, used up their annual leave, kept accurate handwashing logs, discharging to target. Never is it about whether provision for individual children is meaningful or outcome driven.

That might be true, but most parents train themselves in Hanen, so unless there is a reason why the SALT can't read there is no excuse for them not to update their knowledge themselves at least up to parent level.

That is appalling but less so if professionals adhere to their own standards and are open to development and learning from their service user.

A parent should be able to point to Hanen and be taken seriously not dismissed on the basis that the SALT didn't receive training in it.

Star I totally agree, so many professionals I come across moan about inadequate training, they all want to be spoon fed there is nothing to stop them buying a book or going on the internet. Most of what they learn on these expensive day courses can be found in a £5.99 paperback. It's how parents learn.

My Mum was a teacher when the first waive of Eastern European children came to Uk, the first thing she did was get my sister who was working in Eastern Europe to teach her some phrases - 'be quiet' being one! But friendly social phrases too. It made such a difference to the children to have their teacher say hello in Slovac and only took a few minutes to learn. Of course she didn't have time to become fluent in every language but just to make a bit of effort to make them feel welcome until they learnt English - and it meant they behaved better for her too .

teachers go on about NT children becoming independent learners and then they sit back and wait 2 years to be allowed to go on an intro to autism course. The first meeting with the EP to discuss intervention I realised I had already read more autism research and knew more about the approaches available than the EP.

It's why so many professionals are wary of ABA. The SLTs we had looked foolish trying to discuss how to teach DS language with his ABA supervisor, their knowledge level was so low.

I even lent DS last school some books and they pretended to show interest then gave them backa few weeks later obviously untouched.

I've had that too Agnes. I've bought excellent, but very easy to read nooks about AS. They came back at the end of term untouched.

But I already knew they hadn't been touched as I was having to go over stuff that would have been instantly understood had anyone bothered to read the basic guide (with pictures and cartoon strips!)

My own independent SLT has done loads of work in her own time, including going on a three day course she paid for herself, to improve her skills to work with DS. There is a dearth of people with any skills to work with older kids with AS and she's now doing a great job.

But I am shocked, as Star has pointed out, at the lack of skill/knowledge about setting basic targets. This goes right across SEN work - teachers, therapists etc