Webchat with Edward Timpson, children's minister, on the upcoming SEND changes; TUESDAY 15 JULY at 12.15pm

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

As lots of you will know, the Children and Families Act comes into force in September, and with it some changes to the systems around special educational needs.

We know this is a topic many MN posters are deeply involved with. You may remember we've previously had chats about this with Sarah Teather (when she held the relevant government post) and with Edward Timpson himself a while back.

Edward says: 'We've been preparing for the big changes happening in SEND from September. We've been working with local authorities, parents, children, young people and many of our partner organisations in health and education to reform the systems for children with special educational needs and disabilities. I've been looking forward to discussing these changes with you as I know that SEND is a topic of great interest to many Mumsnetters.'

We hope you can join us on the day; as ever, if you can't please post up your questions in advance.

Thanks
MNHQ

My question is -
in the 0-5 category the only person able to request an EHCP is the parent. The medical profession MUST notify the LA of a child with SEN but there are no guidelines on what the LA must do with this notification data. What was the governments expectation on authorities when writing this part of the Code Of Practice?
& why have early years settings not been given the same rights? As it appears to me that there is the potential for a huge gap where parents may not request an EHCP and where settings cannot raise this ro the attention of the LA without parental consent, leaving a child unsupported until either someone from the medical profession or school (once of joining age) have a legal duty of care to do so, with or without consent...

As a representative for a local Parent Carer Forum I am keen to hear your thoughts.
And if anyone else has suggestions as to what their LA is doing with this data please let me know
Kind Regards

Am creeping in with another question as no-one else has raised similar issues.

How will the EHCP improve support given to children with ASD and mental health problems (this is a very common profile). In our experience, education and community paediatrician say it is a mental health problem so should be dealt with by CAMHS. CAMHS, on the other hand, say it is a medical condition that can be solved by appropriate educational support. The net result is that no support is given to the child despite everyone agreeing there are undeniable issues.

The below is a list of questions from a parent carer in my area:
Do all aspects of the SEND reforms also apply to independent schools?
Who will be leading the social aspect of the EHCP'S ?
If a child is looked after by a different local authority to the one in which they live is it correct hat the authority in which they live will take the lead in the EHCP'S? Which local authority will fund anything identified for a personal budget- I've read foster carers can manage this but what about children in children's homes?
Do all schools, including early years nursery and independent schools need to have their own local offer?
Will the EHCP reviews be of a similar process to the current SEN reviews but potentially with more invites?

We have answers to some of these questions locally, but in a bid to show transparency and equal opportunity to ask questions am posting all questions from this parent carer...

A question from my husband:

If all schools are academies and funded directly by the government who will be responsible for special educational needs and where does their budget come from.

under the current system, LA break the Law, flout the SENCoP, use delaying tactics. Usually, parents' only remedy is appealing to the SENDIST, incurring huge costs to get their children the correct provision (provided parents are informed enough and can raise sufficient funds).

However, there is currently no penalty for the LAs for breaking the law. Unless this changes, I do not see how LA will comply with the law under the new system.

How will that change from Sept 2014 onwards?

Mr Timpson for coming here on MN.

An earlier poster has asked. "what empirical research evidence supports the contention that these reforms will improve outcomes for children and young people?"

I have not been able to find anyone able/willing to give a straight answer to this - this includes you, Mr Timpson I have to assume there is NO such evidence.

However there is evidence, locally and other parts of the country, that LAs are not ready to implement the planned changes from 1 September. I am aware of your oft-quoted statistic of "90% of LAs being ready", but this is not the evidence on the ground.

IS were touted as champions, but who are they champions for, as they are not "independent" but "impartial"; this distinction matters. Questions have been asked about how IS will operate, but no straight answers have been given.

To give an example of being unprepared, a post-16 adviser told me recently she could carry out a Learning Disability Assessment for my daughter from September.

Another example is a social worker looking askance at me, only last week, when I mentioned EHCPs. When questioned further, she informed me there were no plans for joint working with Education.

An example of misconception/misinformation is local briefings by PCFs and others that schools are required under the new system to publish a LO so parents may challenge them. Not true!

There are numerous other myths being peddled, clear signs of lack of readiness.

This does not bode well for a "joined-up" system.

So my question is, Mr Timpson:

What is the rush to implementation? Let's get things right, notably the Code and Regs, and give all stakeholders time to get things in place.

Agnes, great post, important questions. I relate to this having had to fight the system, feeling beaten, exhausted, bullied, ignored, whilst trying to find strength to run ABA home program because you know this is your child's only hope in adulthood (and make a contribution to society instead of being supported by society). And still eventually had to give up work anyway even though my son was clearly making progress. please do not ignore the ABA question for children on the autistic spectrum. thank you

My question is: Considering the evidence base behind ABA, and the fact that so many other countries now provide ABA as the default treatment/ education for children with autism, does the UK spend vast sums every year A) fighting parents who desperately want ABA B) propping up eclectic provision that has zero evidence to support it?

Wouldn't you consider setting up an independent review (NB independent of the NAS too) to address this issue?

• why does the UK spend

Dear Edward,

Thank you for coming. My question is simple.

Why have you reformed the delivery end when it was the accountability and redress that required changing? If you had focussed on that, Local Authorities would now be empowered to abide by the law and deliver their statutory duties and both staff, parents and crucially children would be part of a system that worked well and we could be proud of.

In the last few years investigations have showed woeful inadequacies and biases in the SENDIST process, the lack of Independence of Educational Pyschologists and therapists commissioned by the Local Authorities, the Local Government Ombudsman, and now we are seeing the commissioning of Independent Supporters whose training and job specification seems to be to soften parents resolve to hold Local Authorities and the Government to account.

This is also most transparent by the refusal of any Local Authority to have trialled direct payments (for anything other than areas they were already being used for) the first time around without penalty, and despite being paid for this, and the continuing frustration of parents who are still being refused based on local policy.

How can any reform be meaningful and justify the considerable resources of implementation, when those overseeing the process were inadequate to start with and are now, in the ambiguity created by the reforms, required to rely on nothing more than their personal opinion, knowing that there are no straightforward paths of redress or accountability for those?

My local authority, North Yorkshire, has been a Pathfinder authority for nearly 3 years. In April it brought in the new SEN funding changes and the new EHC process. It increased the 'top-up' funding threshold, against the governments strong recommendation of £6000 +AWPU, to £9600 +AWPU so that there will be “no requirement to consider writing a statement or Education Health and Care Plan” for pupils whose needs are less than this amount (NYCC Schools Funding, proposed changes 2014-15).

This would seem to go against the Government’s wishes. What is your view?

I would be grateful if you could clarify the intention in the final draft Code of Practice regarding applying for an assessment. North Yorkshire has put in place the following policy:

1 It will not allow parents to directly request an assessment from the local authority. Any direct request will be refused and the parents will be referred to schools.

2 It insists the application is written by a professional (usually a SENCo) completing a specific form and a detailed resource allocation assessment/questionnaire - filled in with alongside parents during a structured interview. The professional must then submit the application, not the parents.

3 It will only accept a request via these two documents. A request made using any other means will be rejected. A parent cannot write a simple letter or email.

3 It has developed a non-compliant 20 week assessment process. It only starts counting the time period after the professional has submitted the form and assessment/questionnaire. It does not count the time taken for parents to arrange a meeting with the professional, and does not compel professionals to meet parents within any time frame.It does not take into account any disagreement between parents and schools.

Is the intention of the Code to make the process this complicated? If not, can you look at adding into the Code an explicit paragraph that states the means by which an assessment can be made (i.e. a parent/other can request an assessment by any method he or she thinks appropriate, including email, letter, telephone etc, and the local authority then has to consider that request, at the same time starting the 20 week time period on the date the request is received).

Many thanks

Widow good questions.
Legal representation so very important. And expert reports. Tribunal demands these. It's impossible to get an ABA programme or waking day curriculum without an expert recommending it, tribunals have refused to grant these because of an absence of expert support yet only better off parents can pay for reports. If reports are necessary (and LA own experts never advise expensive placements are needed) then should be funded by public purse.

A few weeks after I won our tribunal the LA went out and spent £1000's on legal advice to stop another parent winning the same thing and retained a legal firm from public purse every year since to reduce risk indep placements.

I agree it's too complicated, I'm a qualified solicitor and I found it incredibly difficult. LAs use far more aggressive tactics against parents than you will find in any other public sector litigation. So many parents locally give in when requests for assessments are refused on technicalities, with children left to fail in unsuitable placements. For many parents an appeal is too daunting and LAs know this and refuse applications they should accept to reduce demand.

Two Sencop questions

Why is there no time period for LA to make a decision after annual review? I have waited 11 months for an amended statement after AR.

Why must LA leave provision in place pending an appeal when ceasing a statement but not when amending a statement even though an amendment could amount to for eg moving a child to a different placement, significantly reducing support, removing a particular approach? How is it in best interests of child to have provision removed pending appeal and then potentially reinstated after appeal?

Agnes I have known of an LA who kept the statement in place but took out ALL previously tribunal-ordered provision. This was so that during the appeal they could avoid paying for provision at all.

Dear Edward,

My Husband would like to know if you have read this:www.mumsnet.com/onlinechats/professor-richard-hastings

and what you think of it, and whether we can have any hope that the UK will adopt this cost effective and efficient a model of education that works for ALL children regardless of SEN or any other difficulty.

And whether you agree with Professor Hastings when he says '"Solve education generally, and we'll solve the issues for children with special needs."

Many thanks.

So, Gove has gone. Can't say I always liked his attitude (or policies), but at least he knew what he wanted to do. Had strong reforming ideas. What do you think will be different now he's gone?

What on earth is the logic behind giving 16 and 17 year olds the sole right to ask for statements and amendments and bring appeals? They would not be regarded as having litigation capacity in the courts, and young people with SEN will be far too vulnerable to money-saving LAs persuading them that they want to leave school or do not want expensive therapies.

And why have you not put anything sensible in the draft CoP about how tribunals are to deal with the question if young people's legal capacity to bring appeals? In disputed cases it is going to cost a fortune in medical reports. Have you discussed this with the Legal Aid Agency?

Agnes, the draft CoP gives the LA 4 weeks to make a decision after annual review.

I second the query about implementing the changes in only 6 weeks' time, particularly when we still do not have a finalised
Code of Practice and schools are about to close for the summer.

The House of Lords is quite right to be concerned about the draft Code, particularly its length, lack of substance and user-unfriendliness. What are you going to do about that?

Good news is the Minister is here and we're about to get cracking.

Hi everyone I've arrived at Mumsnet and am now online. Thanks for all your questions. Some themes have already emerged. I'll do my best to answer as many as possible! Edward

@sickofsocalledexperts

Wow what a coup! I would definitely like to ask him to clarify : what can and can't the personal budgets be used on, as only today a mum I know has been told she can't really use it on much at all as "otherwise it would destabilise the whole SEN system if everyone went around choosing what to spend their money on". That leaves me v confused.

Hi sickofsocalledexperts - In relation to your question on what personal budgets can and can't be used on - lots of parents who've been trialling PBs have found them hugely helpful in bringing in their own personal carer for example, as well as helping with transport. Over time we expect the number and scope of PBs to grow, especially with the new joint commissioning coming in. Remember though PBs are your choice and get the care you need for your family.

'Remember though PBs are your choice and get the care you need for your family.'

That's interesting. Our LA says that they are at the LA's discretion and where they may agree it for education, then it goes to the Head Teachers discretion. What motivation would a LA have for handing over an individualised budget to a parent when they aren't legally obliged to and will suffer the consequence of less in-house funding and control?

Mr Timpson< the House of Lords rightly called the guidance on PBs "clear as mud".. Have you remedied that?