Live webchat about childcare reform with Liz Truss, Education & Childcare Minister, Thursday 7 February, 1pm

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello hello,

We'll be welcoming the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Education and Childcare - Elizabeth Truss MP - for a webchat on Thursday Feb 7th (tomorrow) 1pm - 2pm.

As the Member of Parliament for South West Norfolk, Elizabeth Truss lives in Downham Market with her husband and two daughters. She was brought up in Yorkshire and, before entering Parliament, worked as the Deputy Director at the think-tank Reform. She also worked in the energy and telecommunications industry for 10 years and is a qualified management accountant.

Elizabeth recently wrote a Mumsnet guest blog on the Government's plans for childcare reform, which generated this recent thread - and childcare expert Penelope Leach responded to the proposals here.

Do post your question in advance on this thread, or join us live on Thursday 1pm-2pm.

And, as ever, a gentle reminder to all to stick to our webchat guidelines.

Many thanks.

I am an NNEB nursery nurse with a first class honours degree in Early Childhood Studies, a Masters Degree in Early Childhood and twenty years experience of working in nurseries with children under the age of three. Myself and similarly qualified colleagues are contemplating leaving the profession as soon as the ratio changes come into force as experience tells us that this simply will not work. It is very easy to say that nurseries have a choice, but there is often no choice for the practitioners working within them. I would rather leave than fail the infants in my care.

I'm worried about childcare vouchers. DS is now at school, so I'm saving them for holiday care. I can't get holiday care all year (some holidays such as Christmas don't have clubs available at all) and there are more holidays than my husband and I have leave for.

If we don't have vouchers, we can't afford the clubs and one of us will have to give up work.

Please reassure me that they will still be available for parents of children up to 18?

Timely reminder from Chazzy2008 that you can petition against these ration changes: www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-government-department-for-education-leave-our-early-years-ratios-alone

@EasilyBored

What guarantee is there that increasing ratios will lead to nurseries reducing their fees or that childcare will become in less expensive? Wont this just be an opportunity for nurseries to take on more children, or lose staff, with no benefit to parents or children?

The primary purpose of our change to ratios is to give nurseries the headroom to increase staff qualifications and pay. To give an illustration, currently the average childcare professional is earning £13,000 per year. If the nursery fulfilled the rigorous qualification requirements that we're setting out, they would be able to move to a higher ratio and pay those staff £16,000 per year, and there would still be money left over to reduce fees.

With regards to safety lets not forget the current issues that have even highlighted in the news. Children having tragic accidents and massive safeguarding issues in nursery that were all ofsted inspected and run at the current ratios! Surely increasing ratios would see these incidents increasing?

I have a question, if the proposed increase in ratios were to go ahead, despite the obvious disagreement about the proposals, how will the childminders who decide to take on 4 young children then still care for their 3 children on the compulsory childcare register (i.e. the 5 to 7 year olds) when we will still be limited to 6 children under 8 years old? Does this mean that they will give notice to one of those families who will then struggle to find alternative childcare for their school aged child. I know I won't want to upset families should I decide to increase my ratio's (I wouldn't) especially as at the school I take to & collect children from there are only 3 regular childminders to cover a 2 form entry primary school, the after school club that used to collect children by car has closed down and therefore parent's really struggle to find childcare for new entrants especially. I am sorry but your proposals have not been well thought out, do not have the support of child-carer's across the sector or of the parents. Please give up and withdraw them like your colleague has listened and withdrawn the proposals on the table regarding GCSE exams. Oh & I am level 4 qualified, currently doing my BA in Early Years, have over 30 experience as a member of the Scout Association both as a leader, Commissioner and now Appointments Board member.

Still Confused :-/

The evidence aginst the proposed ratio change is clear at www.scribd.com/doc/122622476/Nursery-Ratios-and-Babies-under-12m-in-Nursery
and there is consensus across the sector against this. Will the Minister re consider the proposal as 21,000 have signed a petition against it?

clickable link

A key part of the support for many families are the 15 free hours available for all 3yr olds. How is something available to all children 'fragmented'? Likewise the salary sacrifice vouchers are available to all parents whose employers join the scheme. Once joined it's very simple to use. I'm not sure exactly what is 'really complex and fragmented'

But will you enforce the lowering of fees, or will it be left up to nurseries to do this out of the goodness of their own heart?

@chazzy2008

lots and lots???? seriously??? how many did you consult...were any of them the over 40,000 that have sigend 2 petitions opposing your changes??? where can we contact these people to ask what their views where???

@Bicnod

Yes, please can you answer the 'lots and lots' question?

It was quite a patronising response and lots and lots of people have now asked for clarification on this point.

I've held a series of meetings with nursery providers, interested organisations like the Daycare Trust, NCMA, My Family Care and nanny agencies.

It doesn't matter how many qualifications someone has, it is still not reasonable to expect them to provide quality care and love to so many young children at once.

These plans strike me as a way of establishing mega-nurserys with few staff and loads of kids. Probably so the Tories can force low earners / single parents back to work, reduce their childcare tax credits even further and make them use these souless 'nurseries.

Please explain exactly how you think these proposals will reduce the cost to parents of childcare. Both nurseries and childminders tend to work at capacity in terms of their physical space and capability.

There is no way childminders are going to reduce their rates - around here they only charge £4 per hour per child - it costs more to hire a dog walker/sitter.

If anything they will be able to charge more for the more exclusive, child-centred care they offer in comparison to nurseries.

I am a qualified teacher. I have worked in nursery classes in areas of high deprivation with ratios of 1:13. It was well-nigh impossible to spend quality one-to-one time with the children. We know that many of the funded two year olds have poor language and social skills. How are staff working with them on a ratio of 1:6 expected to give them the precious time they need/ Even a PhD practitioner only has two eyes and two hands

Some of the major national nursery chains have been quoted as saying the actual reduction to costs for parents would likely be no more than £3.50 per week..... yet the impact on the professionals will be huge with job cuts as less staff required to care for the same numbers currently cared for and the added stress for the staff with the qualifications to be kept on

@OptimisticPessimist

I think the ratio issue has been well covered already (and it thankfully won't affect us here in Scotland) so I'd like to ask a different childcare related question.

If your Government is so committed to helping working families afford childcare, then why in its very first budget did it cut the childcare element of working tax credits from 80% to 70%? This was a change that cost parents of two or more children £30 a week, which is a massive amount for those on low incomes. It had a massive impact on me as a lone parent, and I ended up resigning and now claim income support. The childcare element puts money into the economy by contributing to the employment and income of childcare workers, so what reason did your Government have for cutting this benefit?

I would like to point out that the ratios in Scotland (and Ireland) are higher. Ratios in Scotland for 2 year olds are 1:5, and in Ireland are 1:6.

Is the minister publicly stating that she has had meetings with the NCMA and child minders belonging to the NCMA that have given a favourable response to the creation of child minder agencies? As if this is the case there will be many NCMA registered child minders that will have an awful lot more to say about the matter very publicly

Is this England childcare or Wales too...if it does involve Wales, then maybe you should be adding cssiw(care standards) as we are not governed by Ofsted!

I still don't feel you have answered this question adequately. How many PARENTS were consulted, how many childcare providers (nurseries and childminders)?

It is very clear from your response that the answer is NOT ENOUGH.

It's important to bear in mind also with regards the free 15 hour nursery funding that (as reported constantly in nursery world) private day nurseries are LOSING money when offering it. In many areas the amount given by the council does not cover the fees charged by the settings.

Have you considered that the reason PVI providers don't currently take up the 1:13 'opportunity' for 3+ year olds where there is a graduate is because it doesn't offer quality provision?

Ratios for babies are 1:3 in Scotland (and I wouldn't be happy with even that ratio for a baby which is why I've never used one).

Thanks for not answering my actual question though

"The primary purpose of our change to ratios is to give nurseries the headroom to increase staff qualifications and pay. To give an illustration, currently the average childcare professional is earning £13,000 per year. If the nursery fulfilled the rigorous qualification requirements that we're setting out, they would be able to move to a higher ratio and pay those staff £16,000 per year, and there would still be money left over to reduce fees."

Note: not a SINGLE thing there about any benefit to the children...