Live webchat about childcare reform with Liz Truss, Education & Childcare Minister, Thursday 7 February, 1pm

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello hello,

We'll be welcoming the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Education and Childcare - Elizabeth Truss MP - for a webchat on Thursday Feb 7th (tomorrow) 1pm - 2pm.

As the Member of Parliament for South West Norfolk, Elizabeth Truss lives in Downham Market with her husband and two daughters. She was brought up in Yorkshire and, before entering Parliament, worked as the Deputy Director at the think-tank Reform. She also worked in the energy and telecommunications industry for 10 years and is a qualified management accountant.

Elizabeth recently wrote a Mumsnet guest blog on the Government's plans for childcare reform, which generated this recent thread - and childcare expert Penelope Leach responded to the proposals here.

Do post your question in advance on this thread, or join us live on Thursday 1pm-2pm.

And, as ever, a gentle reminder to all to stick to our webchat guidelines.

Many thanks.

I would like to know how many parents, childminders and nursery staff you spoke with before coming up with this new policy, and how many of them agreed with your proposals.

'Lots and lots.'

Well Elizabeth there are 'lots and lots' of parents on here who pretty much unanimously think that 1:4 is inappropriate for the under 2's. No sod inappropriate - absolutely awful.

I would like to see evidence of the discussions with childcare providers you have consulted with before coming up with this.

If, even after more explanation, the overwhelming feeling from parents and care givers alike is that this is Very Bad Idea and will not have positive results, will you still push this through?

I'd really like to know how many people you actually consulted. Lots and lots really isn't an adequate response.

I am confused - to most intelligent people it is immediately obvious that these proposals will not make the positive difference intended. The cynical side of me is trying to work out who is actually going to benefit from this.

@starlight78

Hello

I think this country needs a major wake up call-the majority of parents for years and years have wanted the same thing-affordable childcare. Affordable in the sense that parents should feel that they are indeed better off working rather than claiming benefits simply because they are worse off if they are working. In my personal situation, I have 2 kids under the age of 3, and I simply cannot see myself going back to work full time as childcare costs will mean that I have almost nothing to live on.

We need some sort of major reform that will help working parent and also help parents get back to work if they are unemployed. Cutting back on childcare ratio is not the way forward.

This is part of a whole series of reforms that we're carrying out. One of the announcements we made last week is that Ofsted will be the whole arbiter of quality, which means that more of the £160 million local authorise currently use to to duplicate Ofsted checks and can now go to the frontline. We will be carrying out further reforms to funding to make sure more of the £5bn the Government spends is going to childminders and nurseries. On ratios, we do have the lowest ratios in Europe and the lowest staff salaries, and I think historically we've focussed too much on quantity, and not enough on the quality of care, which is the most important thing.

Liz - if you're going to bring your own credentials as a parent in to the issue I think it's only fair to point out that you are on record saying you've used a nanny for your children. Therefore a ratio of 1:2 at most. do you think that experience really translates across to help you see what parents using other settings need?

Assuming you do change the ratios but the square footage per child remains the same. Won't this then mean that nurseries can employ fewer staff leading to a loss of jobs in childcare?

I do not support your proposals and can't wait for the u-turn.

Yes, presumably all the Tory MPs with preschool children will be perfectly happy to put them into baby battery farm nurseries? Perhaps you should do a test run with Tory MP babies? As it's such a reasonable proposition I'm sure you'd find many takers.

Oops, I didn't realise this was only England/Wales heaves sigh of relief that am Scottish and leaves thread

@mrscog

I just have one question for Liz and it's this...

Can you honestly say hand on heart that if I gave you a 4 month old, an 11 month old, a thirteen month old and an 18 month old to look after all day that you would be able to ensure all of their safety and meet their individual needs for the whole day?

Well first of all, these are childcare professionals we're talking about, and I'd expect them to use their own judgment, given the circumstances of the children they're looking after. The problem at the moment with our rules on childminders is that they don't give flexibility for example on changeover times, if a parent is picking up children late and another has just arrived. There's a case of two childminders in my constituency who look after six children between them. If one wants to pop to the shop to get a pint of milk, they have to take three children with them, under the current rules. Let's not forget that many families have four children in this age-group.

How on earth do you marry up the idea of quality of care being the most important thing, with one person (regardless of how well trained they are) looking after 4 babies? The leaps in logic there are mind boggling.

'wee'll be saying more about how the agency will work soon'

Why has this information not already been shared alongside the other announcements regarding ratios etc. Is it possible the government were hoping that child minders would not notice given the rightful outcry against the ratio increases. Unfortunately we have noticed and we are rightfully concerned as we have NOT been consulted

So that'll be a no then?

@LesbianMummy1

Hi,

As a childminder I am slightly confused by your proposals as they seem slightly contradictory.

If you want to improve care and education higher ratios are surely a disadvantage as less individual time per child.

If you want to promote lower costs to parents surely improving funding systems is more efficient than increasing requirements for qualified staff, surely higher qualifications equal higher pay rates.

If you want to ensure all childminders are offered equal preferences based on grading and qualifications so proposing scrapping local authority support and putting it under Ofsted remit to ensure a level playing field why have agencies that will have variations.

Could you please clarify where I am making my error?

Thank you

For childminders, our proposals are all about allowing childminders who are regulated by Ofsted more opportunities to use their professional judgment about what works for them. At present, local authority coverage is variable across the country, and some of it duplicates the work Ofsted does. Ofsted are currently recruiting new HMIs in early years, and are focussing their efforts on weaker providers to improve quality, to make sure we have a consistent approach nationwide.

I would expect professional childminders to plan their need to obtain milk for outside of their working hours - as any other employed person would need to do.

Ms truss please can I suggest that you try answering The core questions rather than copying and pasting from the report you have published. Many I us have already read your views but they contradict everything us qualified an experienced early years practitioner already know.
HOW EXACTLY will higher ratios reduce costs to parents?
HOW EXACTLY will practitioners spread themselves between all the children and still offer quality care an education
Whilst agencies won't be compulsory they will be advertised as the best way to find childcare so why would a parent look anywhere else? I presume the current CiS will be scrapped meaning advertising for independent childminders will be harder.

lots and lots???? seriously??? how many did you consult...were any of them the over 40,000 that have sigend 2 petitions opposing your changes??? where can we contact these people to ask what their views where???

@JaneGMumsnet

Hi there,

The National Childminding Association's Joint Chief Executives, Catherine Farrell and Liz Bayram, have asked us to pose the following question:

"How will you ensure that local authorities continue to support individual childminders to improve rather than relying on childminding agencies alone?"

Thanks
MNHQ

This is a role that we see Ofsted taking on with boosted resource. Some local authorities are interested into converting their childminder networks into childminder agencies under our proposals. The issue at the moment is that local authority support is very patchy, and also that by spending money on that, less money is getting through to the frontline.

Dawnev said: 'I would be very interested to know how and from where this group of childminders were recruited to consult on agency models. To my knowledge none of my colleagues in the NCMA have been approached nor have any of the child minders I link with from across the country via social media' PLEASE ANSWER THIS ONE!

I'll take that as a no - what do you do if all babies shit themselves at once? At least one of them will have to sit in their own excrement for 15 minutes while the others are changed. You're giving the 4 month old a bottle while the others have their lunch - one of them starts choking, while you go and give the backslaps to that one, the 18 month old spills their food all over the floor and then you slip and fall on it. Then the 11 month old is sick everywhere, while you're dealing with this lunchtime chaos you're not going to be putting your professional qualifications on child development and lovely activities to much use are you?

I said that I agreed with the swap over time ratios - but you're not limiting the ratios to this are you?

I would like to know.

I agree with your ideas and proposals that people working with young children should be of a higher educational level. Degrees would be perfect. That's great for preschools, and to raise salaries as well.

What would happen to us Childminders? Who generally work longer hours than nurseries and preschools often offering overnight, emergency care etc.

I could spend £5,000 or however much it is on a Degree and still only be paid £3.50 per HOUR. I work 50 hours a week which doesn't include out of hours paperwork. Who will raise out salaries? If I had a degree, and as a Childminder I will be earning 9,200PA or I could work in a nursery and receive 20k PA ISH, I'd be working in a nursery pronto. Less and less Childminders.... I don't like the idea of that.

Yes, please can you answer the 'lots and lots' question?

It was quite a patronising response and lots and lots of people have now asked for clarification on this point.

I work in an independant early years school nursery (not a day nursery), 4 years ago one of our staff undertook a second degree in their own time and then went on to achieve early years professional status in 2011. Two other staff are currently halfway through this process - all these staff will still be earning less than £10 per hour and now we are told this qualification is not quite right", our level 3 staff earn less than £9 per hour. Do you really think these rates of pay are reasonable - how on earth are we supposed to reduce costs to parents on these margins - there is no way we are prepared to change the ratios for under twos it would put our children at too much risk

"Let's not forget that many families have four children in this age-group"

How many lone* parents have four children under two?

And how many of those that do benefit from some support - either by privately funding it, or by being referred and funded by the local authority?

*I say lone parent purely because the ratio in question refers to one adult caring for four children under two years.

@MerrieEngland

As a working parent, who wishes to carry on working, the cost and availability of childcare is currently a major disincentive from continued active participation in employment. I am hopeful that your reforms will be implemented to make life easier for my husband and me. But I think that there should also be fewer complications in the tax system. Please can you ask the Chancellor to simplify the tax system, introduce flatter rates, and remove complex rules that distort decisions and provide a disincentive to people like me who want to work hard, do the right thing for ourselves and our country, yet also want to do the best thing for our children, so that they are able to grow up and thrive in a country that is fair and economically competitive.

MerrieEngland, I have a massive amount of sympathy with what you say. One of the things I'm keen to do is to make sure the childcare support that the Government gives parents and families is a simple and clear as possible. The problem at the moment is that the system is really complex and fragmented, and this means that the money the Government is spending isn't reaching the frontline. We'll shortly be announcing further reforms to simplify funding, and also to help parents looking for wraparound care for school-age children.