Why do sheep need so much help?

[SleepingStandingUp]

Farmers always have to be there to look after them, seemingly more so for other animals (based on watching Down on the Farm) but why? Is it how they've been bred? Do they all need the same help really but it isn't talked about? Have cows and pigs got better PR? What would the death rate be like if all the sheep were left to give birth alone?

I'm not Ewe shaming, we should all be entitled to a little help.

IANASF but my impression is that sheep that are bred to be useful for meat or wool sometimes need lots of tlc to reach that aim but those that are bred to make the most of some otherwise useless land are as hardy as fuck.

I'm a city mouse so have no close experience of sheep, but I'd always wondered how come Gabriel's flock of sheep all run off the cliff in Far From The Madding Crowd, rather than just the first couple dropping off before the others catch on and stop. This thread has explained that beautifully!

Fascinating thread!

I have read this thread with great interest. I never knew there was so much to learn about all these animals and how they all differ. It is sad that sheep have been over bred and made them weak all in the name of consumerism/meat consumption.

My Aunty, who farmed sheep said they only had two aims in life. One was to graze next door and the other was to die!

Sheep haven't really changed that much in recent times. Particular breeds go in and out of fashion but largely they are the same animal. It's virtually impossible to intensively farm sheep in the same way you can pigs or chickens

Most of the breeding was for wool rather than for meat before that.

i couldnt see the field of sheep on our walk yesterday due to a thick hedge but my goodness i could hear them,
what a racket

They just have the most remarkable propensity to die. I wouldn’t know where to start with my stories…

Agreed that they are fairly stupid!

We lamb quite a lot of sheep every year and the problems are mainly due to misrepresentation, so lambs coming backwards or with no/one leg along with the head. Easiest for them is two toes and a nose.
Sometimes the lambs can be tangled up a bit as well so it takes some working out which legs belong with which head.

We also have quite a lot of cattle and more often than not they will need assistance too. We seem to have done a disproportionate number of cesareans this year too, around 10%. It's not ideal but pulling would likely kill the calf and quite possibly the cow as well. Our vets are very experienced and wouldn't do this if it wasn't absolutely necessary.

Not sure this is true,

Birthing large lambs is not something that is encouraged or bred for, the ideal is for each ewe to have sensible sized twins. Farmers will ultrasound their in-lamb ewes to find out how many there are and adjust feeding accordingly - to avoid over large singletons which can be a problem. Others can have triplets/quads+ which require fostering on/hand rearing so can be a problem. Then there are the dystokias where lambs are malpresented or two come at once, developmental abnormalities (particularly in years when there have been outbreaks of schmallenberg virus and they come out with two heads and such like) and then problems with the ewe such as uterine inertia or ring womb (where she doesn't dilate)

Indeed all the problems which can crop up in any birthing mammal, including humans. The intervention rate on a population level is probably lower than many other species, particularly humans with our massive heads, pedigree dogs and Belgian blues, but a farm can have thousands of ewes, so lambing is a busy time.

(But they definitely do have a tendency to give up and die when things get trying - and have some fantastically old-fashioned named ailments... watery mouth, rattle belly, pulpy kidney, joint ill and braxy)

I think TV programmes probably concentrate on sheep births more than other farm animals as it usually happens over a short period of a few weeks in the spring, so if the cameras and film crew set up in the lambing shed at that time they know they are going to get plenty of footage. Cattle and pigs give birth all year round so it's going to be harder to catch the right moment with them. With any animal it's a case of leaving them to get on with the job naturally themselves but keep a close eye on what's happening and then use your judgement as to when intervention is needed if things don't seem to be progressing well. I do agree with others that sheep are incredibly stupid with an amazing repertoire of ways to die.

Even Masham sheep, a very old breed, have a propensity to want to die. They are more likely to give birth without help, but they are still stupid. So I do not think it is mainly about breeding. I just think they are not very bright animals.

Kiwis are like this too. Totally stupid and seem determined to kill themselves. When you watch them you realise why they are so endangered.

I think wild sheep were probably like wild rabbits, a lot of them just die every year. The mothering is interesting too. Generally, if a ewe has had a caring good mother, she will be a good and caring mother too. But some of the ewes just abandon their lambs or stand eating grass ignoring their lost lamb bleating away trying to find them.

In Britain, we farm sheep relatively intensively. So smaller herds, but give them more help to survive and remain healthy. In some countries like New Zealand, some farmers have enormous herds that are free-range, and they give them very little help. Just some basic care like worming. They just accept more animals dying.

I personally think sheep only pretend to be dim. Ours pobble about all innocently when really they are secretly plotting new ways to escape or die, bonus points if they can die by escaping. The ring leaders are herdwicks who can jump over any obstacles leading those less built for jumping to attempt ever more ridiculous ways to follow.

Lambs on the other hand don't even disguise their cunning, they are smart little buggers hell bent on escape to raid the polytunnels. (Once a few weeks old they postpone the death wish until adulthood for an adolescence of sheer hell raising)

Of course 🐑🐏🐑🐏

OK so,
Clever toddlers, wild adolescents, needy adults. Death wish caused by regret that wild adolescence has passed, and stupidity.

Have been toying with the idea of acquiring a small flock (say four ewes) to populate our otherwise-unoccupied paddock. Can’t decide whether this thread has encouraged me or put me off.

Sheep local to us have mastered the art of jumping over the cattle grid

I often wonder if the people born and bred on Shetland are as naughty, stubborn and cunning as their animals! Shetland ponies aren’t known as Shitlands for nothing!

Reading this thread, I believe we humans have it all wrong when it comes to sheep.

Roaming the hills? Being kept in a field? Having a restricted diet of grass and being called dim on a regular basis?
Come on!
There has to be more to sheep. Why knocking their confidence right, left and centre?

God they're just spectacularly stupid creatures aren't they. I'm a horsey person and have lost count of the times I've got off and gone into a field to rescue one from whatever predicament it's got itself into. Have pulled loads out of fences where they've got their heads stuck. Helped one give birth much to my horse's bemusement. Have herded up and put into random fields ones that have escaped. Stopped my car and chased them off the main road where they were trotting along with a queue of about 100 cars behind them. Etc etc etc etc.

My DD once was out and came across one stuck on its back, she knew no different so had just stood looking at it thinking it was funny, I had to make her go back and pull it over (it was fine).

We added tasty.

Of course there's more to sheep. They're arguably one of the reasons for why Britain became a prosperous country, and they still shape our landscape. Think of the lovely villages and fine churches of places like the Cotswolds and Suffolk, the remnants of magnificent monasteries in North Yorkshire - they were built on the woolly backs of sheep.

"Pobble about" is my new favourite verb

Someone I know acquired 5 or 6 ewes once, thinking it would be fun to become a hobby farmer. She was experienced with horses, dogs, chickens etc, so what could go wrong?

By the end of spring they had required a vet to assist all but one in a series of utterly disastrous lambings. Nothing to do with mismanagement; just the type of repeated random bad luck that sheep utterly delight in.

I would say my friend could write a chapter or two on sheep obstetrics now, but it would be stained with writer's tears!!