City lawyers - I am about to become one of you. Please advise me!

[InGloriousTechnicolor]

I've just finished the LPC and am about to start my training contract at a commercial firm in the City (think top 25 but not Magic Circle). It would be great to get some advice from City lawyers, especially women, as I don't have any lawyer friends to ask about this stuff.

Basically, if you could go back in time and advise your trainee self, what would you say? (although please don't say 'Run like the wind' because I've signed a contract and it's too late for that!)

[Curioustiger]

Wrt lecherous partners ... There are exactly as many lecherous lawyers as there are in other walks of life ie a few. Don't worry about it.

[emsyj]

I was never a City trainee - I joined a MC firm when I was just over 1 yr PQE though, so I worked alongside some...

Best advice for anyone training at anything I think is, when someone gives you a task to do, summarise back to them what you think they've asked you to do to check that you've understood them before you go off and waste hours/days doing the wrong thing.

Also, be aware that 360 degree feedback at City firms is fairly commonplace (universal??) - so it won't just be the partners who are asked what they think of you. Brown nosing partners and being 'too busy' to assist juniors in your team has been the downfall of more than one trainee in my experience!

As others have said, be nice to your secretary and to all other staff you come across. Being pleasant to everyone you work with is just one of those key things that makes life easier and nicer all round regardless of your workplace/chosen career, so that's a given.

[EarthtoMajorTom]

I have spent a lot of time regretting that I didn't start my training contract. After reading this thread, I am now completely convinced that it wouldn't have been the career for me. Not in a million years.
Thank you everyone.

[cafecito]

I quit my city law job
having a child didn't combine well and once you have one, you are always written off as being someone not committed to the role, one eye is always on you wondering when the next one is coming, you kill your own promotions. Anyway. I couldn't stand one of the secretaries or the managing partner or HR witch from hell. Everyone else was a dream and I miss them every day. I miss the work, I miss the clients, I very much miss my team.

My tips, hmm. Dress safely - smart, classic. Always look client-ready, never too trendy or fussy (for the ones in trendy clothes are not the equity partners). Agree be lovely to the admin staff and treat them as your equals. They can make your life easier as a trainee if they like you, most trainees/legal staff can become cliquey and not associate with those under their station as it were- don't be one of them.

Do not share personal information at work no matter how many questions are asked no matter if it's your boss asking them. Do not ever feel safe until you are the boss. Be honest enough but never ever over share.

Do not get drunk at work evening drinks-type events, but do make an appearance every few weeks/months. Don't go to every one if it's a leaving party etc, do go to the ones that matter. Don't get pissed.

Do be confident, don't self deprecate too much or people will start believing you are as bad as you make out. If you make a mistake or don't know something, and really cannot work it out, say so.

Expect long hours, blabla

Any concerns, any real hot water etc, make sure everything is in writing.

Enjoy it and congratulations!

[Thesunalwayshinesontv]

celestialsquirrels has some great (and beautifully drafted ) advice.

I would only add that you would do well to always try to understand your client's business. It will always, to the extent you have clients, as a lawyer or otherwise, stand you in very good stead.

[LongGoneBeforeDaylight]

I'm soon to qualify at a large corporate commercial firm

1. Be organised, don't lose things.
2. Be super proactive about getting feedback before your 3 month appraisal, then address any faults. That way the appraisal in writing should be good.
3. Double check everything. I made so many errors in letters initially...
4. Worry less about chargeable units as a trainee and more about quality of work and learning.
5. Do everything without moaning.
6. Never bitch about anybody.
7. Try to get exposure within the firm - ask if you can present at team meetings, etc.
8. Answer the question when you do research and don't sit on the fence. Don't copy and paste judgments, but understand them and supply concise bullet pointed answers.
9. Face time is sadly quite important. People notice when you're in the office late, and is ideal time to get chatting to a partner in a dept you're interested in for a seat/NQ job.

10. Cry only in the toilets.

[celestialsquirrels]

Re mistakes- I once overran in a meeting at the client's offices and so had to go straight to Heathrow to fly off somewhere on a signing without first being able to get back to my office.

I phoned my trainee. "Do you see the document bag by the door of my office full of engrossed contracts? Bring it to me at Terminal 4 departures. I will meet you at WH Smith".

I get in a cab and go to Heathrow. She gets in a cab and very efficiently gets to Heathrow 20 mins later and meets me as arranged. "Hello!" she says brightly. I say "Hi. Where's the document bag?"

Silence.

She had forgotten it.

I had to get another trainee to personally bring it to my hotel in Ankara, Turkey the next morning. We had to delay the signing by 3 hours. The client was Goldman Sachs who could not have been less impressed. The trainee was not kept on after qualifying.

[Notsurehowthathappened]

On a slightly different tack, I am at the other end of my career now and surrounded by professional women friends who missed out on a family believing that they could manage the timing.

Just remember family and friends ALWAYS matter more than your career. Work won't love you back!!! I constantly look at my daughter (I am widowed) and am thankful that I was preared to risk one more promotion (which I eventually got anyway) to have her.

[Bakingnovice]

Always say YES. To everything if you can. It will be noted.

Double check every thing you do. Smile and ask lots of questions. Good luck.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

I would second the advise about knowing your client and who in your client you are dealing with. If you are dealing with the in-house legal team of a large company or financial institution you are probably dealing with someone who worked for quite a few years in a big law firm and has developed a lot of on the job expertise in house as well. If they have an issue with something it's probably for a good reason.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Advice not advise

Oh and always proof read especially on an iPhone.

[lisianthus]

A "life point" rather than an "in the office" point, as the office stuff has been covered really well - live well within your income. If you are in a top 25 firm, you will be paid very well indeed, if not at US firm level.

While you need to spend a certain amount to look the part (it's important not to look the poor relation compared to the other lawyers and the clients), don't let the cash go to your head. NOT EVERYONE CAN BECOME A PARTNER. This is the case even if you are good. Often, firms have an "up or out" policy. And there are periodic "purges" that sweep through the City during turndowns, where lots of people are made redundant and it is extremely difficult to get re-employed.

So take the cash that many other trainees/associates will be spending on Manolos/flashy cars/business class travel, and use it to pay down your mortgage early. If you wind up looking for work with several hundred other lawyers, you don't want to be in debt as well. Stack the cash away as if you were a footballer and your employment in the big bucks firms will have a limited lifespan. It may well do.

Good luck, you are in for a baptism of fire, but you are also likely to make some of the best friends of your life, who will understand what you are going through.

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

I used to be a City lawyer. You've had some great advice. Things I would add (I might be repeating some. I'll admit I have committed the cardinal sin of not reading every post).

1. Golden advice given to me as a first seat trainee. When asked to fill in your first appraisal form, do not do that shit female thing of being all modest. My first attempt was all 'I think I am quite good at'. The female partner I was working for handed it back to me and told me to re-do it, and why. It was great advice. This form will be seen by everyone who considers employing you at the end of the training.
   

1. At drinks events, always drink a big, big glass of water just before you go in. You will not be thirsty and it will help you pace your drinking. I also often ensured that I took a couple of non-alcholic drinks first, claiming thirst. If you are two glasses of wine behind everyone else, you will notice them starting to get tipsy and be reminded to stop yourself in good time. Also, even if you drink too much, you'll be less drunk than others. Refusing alcohol entirely is often viewed with suspicion by older partners as a sign of pregnancy or alcoholism!
   

1. Assuming you have access to a secretary, learn to bloody dictate. Come in early, hide in a cupboard or stay super late to practice if needs be. If I attend a meeting and ask you to take notes, I want my notes quickly, not in days and days because you insist on typing the bloody things yourself.
   

1. Dress very conservatively. At my firm, knee high boots would have been considered very off with anything other than an ankle length skirt suit. I generally recommend trouser suits for practicality.
   

1. Keep your head down at the start of a seat and figure out who likes who, who hates who, etc.
   

1. Although it is good to volunteer for work...do not volunteer when you cannot possibly complete the work. If you are in an all day meeting, you can't do my research. But equally do not refuse because you are too busy only for me to see you heading out the door at 6pm - I will notice.
   

1. Many departments, including my old one, ask associates/assistants what we think of potential trainees to take on. If you've brown nosed the partners and ignored the associates/assistants, we'll feed that back. It won't go down well.
   

1. I agree with repeating back instructions. Also, if you have a question on work, spend time formulating it properly and come in and ask it. Goes like this "I have a quick question about X. Is now a good time" if they say yes, ask the question quickly and clearly. If they say no, ask when will be a good time. Don't just wander into my office and start generally waffling about being a bit confused. Some quite senior lawyers in my department didn't get this, and as a result annoyed partners regularly.
   

1. Poor spelling and grammar is disproportionately annoying.

[mycatlikestwiglets]

Another one I thought of - don't engage too much in trainee politics! You will come across a number of people who have a clear agenda to qualify in a certain area and will try to bulldoze their way there. Don't fall victim to them as they may be full of it! Ignore what other trainees say about where they plan to qualify and do what you want to do - even if you don't get kept on you'll be far happy qualifying elsewhere in an area which interests you than simply going for somewhere you think will have a space.

[WhatWillSantaBring]

A few of the bits of advice may not be relevant if you're in a department with very big clients - SC/top 25 firms often seem to have a variety of clients, and if your client is FTSE100 you can bet your bottom that the partners won't let a trainee within 100 miles of the client itself, especially a first/second seat trainee. (I didn't meet a client till my third seat, save for walking into a meeting to hand over a document, where it just so happened that I knew three of the clients personally!!).

You therefore have to learn to manage your "internal" clients as though they were external clients - treat the partner as you would a client. One of the partners in my first seat never spoke directly to trainees, but as I discovered on qualification, he would give jnr associates instructions and say "get that trainee to do it". Jnr associate would manage the work and then have to report back to partner on capability of trainee.

NQ qualification can be quite political. Be prepared for the fact that your fellow trainees may turn around and stab you in the back to get the job. That trainee is the one who will go on to be partner. Don't go on secondment in your fourth seat - you need to be in the mother ship to be able to network, talk to the partners you want to work with etc. I learnt these lessons to my cost and nearly didn't get a job that I had been (informally) guaranteed.

All-nighters are not inevitable. I managed to get away with many 4am finishes but no all-nighters.

Oh, and personal hygeine (shit, I'm a lawyer and don't know how to spell!) is very important. At least one trainee in our team didn't get a job based on the fact he smelled. Partners are as shallow as the rest of us.

[emsyj]

I would echo Amanda's advice about formulating your question before making an approach with it, especially if you are approaching a colleague in a different team (e.g. on a transaction you may well have to deal with folk from lots of different teams, some of whom you won't know). Take up as little time with your question as you can - drill down to exactly what it is you need from the person and be succinct. This is something that was a major culture shock for me when I moved from a large regional to MC: I had been used to just wandering into people's offices and chatting for a bit but MC lawyers really don't have the time or patience for this, plus you are less likely to get to know most of the people in the big City firms as they're just too big for that. Be prepared that if you approach someone who is busy and start waffling, they will tell you to go away and come back when you know what it is you're asking.

[DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper]

Totally O/T, but I've just googled Magic Circle, as I had vaguely heard the term but had no idea what it really meant.

I've just discovered that my little brother is now working for his third Magic Circle firm, and was head-hunted from one to the next. He was recruited as a partner into the third and doubled his already 6-figure salary when he made that move.



Good luck OP - what a fab thread with some amazing advice. :)

[ComtesseDeFrouFrou]

I think for the non-lawyers who are "listening in" on this thread a lot of this will come across as very prescriptive and negative - almost as bad as a combination of the BF vs FF debate with childbirth trauma stories thrown in for good measure.

As with everything, the job has its fair share of shit moments, but it is a hugely rewarding and stimulating career with some real wow moments - and I'm not just talking about the salaries. No amount of money can compensate for a supervising partner who never says thanks or well done.

But you get the odd flash of feeling on top of the world - those days when you really do feel bigger and cleverer than everyone else

[Absy]

I work in the city (investment bank, not law firm) and would say: humility goes a long way. IME the more arrogant someone is, generally the more useless they are. The nicest and humblest people tend to be the most senior, the more arrogant twunts are the most junior.

Be nice to EVERYONE because you never know what/where it will come back to you, e.g. people being more willing to help you out when you need it, or even considering you when there's a role going.

Be willing to take on grunt work, because again, you never know what it will lead to. My first job was to enter data into a database - super dull, but it led to me being made permanent and having "paid my dues" I was given much more interesting work.

And most importantly, having a good manager is key. I've had fabulous and rubbish ones. If someone is rubbish or you don't get along at all, ask to have a new manager or move because it won't do either of you any good in the long run.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

If you are involved in a big transaction remember you are probably only seeing a tiny fraction of the whole deal. When dealing with large complex cross border transactions, sorting out the signature blocks, whilst important, is not the main focus for anyone other than the trainee dealing with it.

[Absy]

Oh, and nobody is as interested in your career development as you are, so don't expect someone else to direct it for you. Have an idea/plan on where you want it to go (with a degree of flexibility, you never know) and take the initiative to direct it that way.

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

Oh, on time recording.

Do it promptly, accurately and with a decent narrative.

We do not routinely write off trainee time - we look at whether you were doing a job that would otherwise have been done by someone else who we would have charged for.

You need to record properly the time it took. If you think it took too long, you need to work out why and improve next time. If something happened - like you misunderstood the question for an hour of the research, find out the procedure at your firm (we'd note it very clearly in the narrative so it gets picked up and written off in billing) but don't just knock the time off.

Senior associates and partners bill and decide what to bill. You do not. They will know you are slow (but you are also cheap!). They will adjust accordingly if needed. If you adjust on your time records, you are double discounting the client and usurping the partner's role.

Very few things are more irritating in trainees than someone you know spent 12 hours a day in the office for the last week, but seems to only have 5 hours a day of time.

[lazarusb]

As a mature student with 2 dcs of 10 & 13 at the end of the second year of my LLB, I've found this thread really interesting. I've just done all my TC applications so fingers crossed!

[FreeButtonBee]

Another ex MC lawyer, now in house.

Always have an eye on the exit. Yes, you might think you want to be a partner but a vanishingly small number of people make it particularly these days. Example, out of my 500 intake on the he LPC, most of whom were destined for MC and top 15 law firms, I don't know of ANYONE who's made partner. Some of that is choice, some is timing (many got canned/pushed down the line in the credit crunch), some is not being good enough. Whatever. It's a fact that few people make it so by about 7 years PQE, you're probably going to want to be gone. So:

When you do get client contact, be exceptional, be interested, be polite, go the extra mile. It's amazing how it can help in the future.

And be nice to the lawyers on the other side. Be right and be thorough but politeness and good manners cost nothing - I've known clients to switch law firms because the other side seemed more professional and nicer to deal with. Ditto I've known people to be offered jobs by opposing law firms because they were so good but also professional and great to deal with.

Oh, and networking? Took me years to realise that it's just the people you know. Get to know people, and they will become your network. I got my in house jobs through an ex-lawyer who was a friend of my DH (who is also a lawyer!). Almost everyone I know (and there are precious few private-school-Daddy's-connections-got-me-a-job) gets their next job through contacts. You don't have to fake friendliness but do make a bit of an effort. Remember people. Keep in touch with interesting people. Sports teams are particularly useful for that sort of thing actually.

[SlatternismyMiddlename]

I don't work for a city firm but am a solicitor. Everything being said in here is also true of smaller practices.

Treat your support staff well as you may need them to bail you out in the future.

Do not think that something you are given is beneath you, you are trainee, no work is beneath you.

Follow your solicitor's lead in client meetings, any doubts/questions you may have can wait until the client has left. Never ever moan/ complain/ discuss office politics with a client even in a social setting. This may seem obvious but I have noticed in the last few years some common sense has been lacking in newbies.

As said many times before, dress conservatively. Work wardrobe is not the place to show off you cutting edge individual style.

Do not let any one assume that your training colleague is your superior because he is male. I have unfortunately seen clients assume this.

Spelling is ridiculously important.