City lawyers - I am about to become one of you. Please advise me!

[InGloriousTechnicolor]

I've just finished the LPC and am about to start my training contract at a commercial firm in the City (think top 25 but not Magic Circle). It would be great to get some advice from City lawyers, especially women, as I don't have any lawyer friends to ask about this stuff.

Basically, if you could go back in time and advise your trainee self, what would you say? (although please don't say 'Run like the wind' because I've signed a contract and it's too late for that!)

[stella1w]

Ok chub..how does one pinch someone else's wip?

[Chubfuddler]

OK when you raise a bill in a matter (if you do, many larger firms do billing centrally and/or if it's a large matter only the project leader will do billing) you can choose what time to include in the bill and which fee earners to assign which amounts to. So if your firm's systems allow you can assign someone else's wip to you.

NB I have never and would never do this. I've known it happen though.

[wellthatsdoneit]

I was going to say make yourself known as a safe pair of hands.

When given a task, close the deal on it, ie don't keep going back with wishy washy problems, or at least go back having done some decent forethought and suggestions of how/when obstacles will be overcome.

[ComtesseDeFrouFrou]

To add to what Chub said you can also write down other people's time rather than your own if there has been an overrun on fees or, conversely, you come in on or under budget but someone else in another dept (in my firm it's always the property lawyers massively exceeding their remit so that you have to take a write off, because, although you we're in budget, overall the fees are too high. Depending on how senior you are, you can have an influence on this stuff and fight your corner, or not. I am now eagle eyed about getting other teams to stick to their own cost estimates/manage their wip because I've been burnt too many times

Also, in some firms, it's routine to write off trainees time on the basis that the work they've done must be rubbish. Again, depends on the firm or the partner doing the billing.

[suchnonsense]

I'd agree with all the advice given so far, particularly the often-repeated advice to own up to any mistakes. They will never be as bad as you fear, and telling someone early may make a huge difference to how easy it is to fix.

Things I look for/value in trainees:

• Attention to detail. Nobody is expecting you to be a legal genius or an expert negotiator; you simply don't have the experience. However, there is absolutely no excuse for spelling/grammar mistakes or careless errors. If you're asked to proof-read/check something, do a really good job. If you are a "safe pair of hands" with the relatively mundane work, then it will stand you in fantastic stead going forward as the more senior lawyers will rely on you more and more, which in turn will expose you to more challenging work. If an associate has to constantly check your work to correct errors, they may as well do the work themselves which is massively inefficient.
  
• Willingness. Don't complain about being too busy. Always smile and appear enthusiastic when asked to do work, even if you are (politely) suggesting that others may have more capacity.
  
• Timekeeping. Trainees who think it's ok to turn up late in the morning because they were working late will not last long. Occassionally you may be told that you can come in late if its been a particularly gruelling night/series of nights, but never assume. If a team is busy, that is exactly when they will rely on you to be punctual in the morning.
  

I agree with those who have suggested working for as many partners/seniors as possible. Not only does it expose you to a variety of work, but it also ensures you have a wide pool of potential "appraisers" come evaluation time. This will be viewed positively if you're ever up for promotion to the next level.

Re. maternity leave, I'd suggest waiting until you're at least 3/4 years qualified, unless you are very confident about your "profile" at the firm. 2 years PQE is a very popular time for associates to drop out or move to another firm, and at that stage you are still fairly expendible.

Think carefully about your specialty. Not only are certain areas of law more "family friendly", but several (pensions, incentives, insurance etc) are so specialist that they will give you a greater bargaining position re. salaries. Corporate and banking are more mainstream, so the lawyers are considered to be more expendible. I really wish I'd known that before I picked my qualification area! Conversely, certain specialities (IT/IP, employment, commercial) lend themselves well to an in-house role, so think about whether this is a route you may go down.

Above all, the learning curve as a trainee/NQ is incredibly steep - you will learn something new every single day, and life will get easier. So don't panic if it all seems overwhelming to start with.

Finally - if you are any good with maths, accounting or Excel, you will be highly valued. Lawyers are generally rubbish at these, and will stare at you in wonder and amazement!

I'm currently on my second maternity leave from a US firm, having qualified in a silver circle firm. It's hard work, but (generally) I really do love my job. You'll get out what you put in. Good luck!

Sorry - that was rather more of an essay than I intended!

[mycatlikestwiglets]

No issue with a year's mat leave at my firm - no one is thanked or remembered for coming back sooner!

[ComtesseDeFrouFrou]

Blimey, there are loads more of us here than I thought!

[MrsNoodleHead]

Sorry, haven't read the thread but would chip in :

• In the words of my former senior partner to another in my intake, the three rules are:
  
  
  
• Be eager and have a smile for everyone.
  
  
• Initiative can get you a long way. The number of trainees/NQs I see who will follow instructions perfectly, but not engage their brains! THINK! If I'm busy and I can only give you rough instructions, try to perfect the notion/draft. You won't always be spoon fed and are employed for your intelligence, not your typing. .
  
  
• Use your common sense to balance that initiative against the cost of you spending oodles of time researching something which someone might know better. Sometimes it is better to ask a quick question to refine your instructions, but make sure that the question is not unintelligent/obvious/answered by Google.
  
  
• As you progress, it will be taken for granted that you have technical ability and intelligence. What will differentiate you from others is the strength of your relationship with key clients and the breadth/influence of your contacts. Start working on those relationships from day 1 and they will hold you in good stead in a few years' time.
  
  
• If you practice a contentious area of law, bear in mind that if you maintain a pleasant/commercial relationship with the other side, it looks more professional/mature than entrenched aggression and they may refer work to you in the future if they respect you.
  
  
• Build and maintain strong networks with the other trainees in your intake. This can be hard as you go into separate departments, but they will refer work to you as they progress.
  
  
• Be a grammar pedant. You will meet many in your line of work!
  
  
• Be a technical whizz with IT etc.
  
  
• Try to find a niche. If there's a developing area of law, you will be more valuable if you are the person in the building who knows most about it.

[MrsNoodleHead]

Argh, posted before I'd set out the three rules. Makes me look like I can't count!

Anyway, according to our former senior partner:

1. Be shit hot
   
2. Be shit hot
   
3. Be shit hot

[lowra]

Still here

[InGloriousTechnicolor]

Can someone run me through the NQ selection progress. I know this whole thread is basically a 'How to Get Kept On' guide but is the decision purely made on how well you fulfilled all of the above during your TC or are there other factors?

[beyondthepaleandinteresting]

I used to be one, and then a lawyer in a major provincial firm, before I quit after my second lot of mat leave .

The thing that annoyed me most once I was responsible for supervising trainees was having to correct the same mistake twice. Mistakes (although not daft ones) are inevitable, but do only make them once. Keep notes, and if your supervising associate / partner annotates a document or email that you produce, take a photocopy of their notes, and stash it away in a folder so that you can cross reference the next time you are asked to do something similar.

Be keen, be polite to everyone, but don't try to be best buddies with anyone. "The Rule of Work", although a bit naff (and a bit dismissive of the long hours culture which I am afraid is inevitable in a City law firm) might be a useful read.

And as MrsNoodle says, your technical ability will become a given; your business development acumen is what will really help you to get ahead (I bloody hated his side of it, and really that's why I ended up chucking it in, as I knew that I'd gone as far as I could based purely on being a technically good lawyer - I watched contemporaries, especially men, who really hadn't stood out as exceptionally bright at university or as trainees carve out stellar careers based on their excellent networking ability). Get good a this, push yourself forward in terms of presenting seminars, speaking in team meetings etc. if you're not naturally confident, fake it.

[PetiteRaleuse]

Don't tell your DP's best friend that the unknown author you are representing is JKRowling....

[InGloriousTechnicolor]

Lol, Petite - that was such a classic. Can't believe he did that, and can't believe she put it on Twitter...

[beyondthepaleandinteresting]

InGlorious, it is quite a few years since I was an NQ, but in my day partners / departments advertised their NQ vacancies internally (i.e. on a nominated day, the list of NQ jobs for the next year would be circulated), and it was up to interested qualifying trainees to apply, following which they would be interviewed. Past appraisals etc would all be taken into consideration, but i suspect a lot of decisions were made based on chats amongst the partners. Sometimes there were clear favourites for jobs - previous trainees who had done well in a post - but it was not unheard of for jobs to go to trainees who hadn't actually done a seat in the team which they qualified into. That was at a time when jobs were fairly plentiful though, so this may all be quite different now, your HR department (or any current trainee) will be able to confirm the process.

[suchnonsense]

With respect to getting kept on as an NQ, I reckon about 50% is made up of the elements mentioned here. The remainder is (a) luck (i.e. is there space in the team you want to join) and (b) whether the "right" partner is willing to stick their neck out for you.

[eurozammo]

Remember it gets easier. There will be times you hate it in the first couple of years! But if you stick at it, you get to control your own time more and it does get easier.

You've had some very good advice here, re: taking pen and paper everywhere, knowing the number for telcons/addresses for meetings, asking questions and owning up to mistakes.

I will add: Keep in touch with contacts from law school and other folks you meet along the way. One day some of them will be in house counsel deciding who they will instruct or colleagues who have a conflict and need to refer work on. These will make your case for partnership in years to come! It seems a long way off now, but I've seen this happen time and again (and am very jealous as I worked abroad early in my career before email was common and lost touch with far too many people).

[lurkerspeaks]

Not NQ selection and I'm not a lawyer but my brother is and I've been subject to quite a few rants recently about his teams new(ish) trainee.

Cardinal sins seem to be:

1. not keeping quiet in client meetings
   
   
2. contradicting the supervising partner in meetings with client and advocate (my brother, who isn't the partner, quite enjoyed that one as the rollicking aftewards was apparently world class)
   
   
3. being socially inept eg. criticising one of the solicitors choice of jewellery (it was her Mother's and her mother had just died) being unPC about state education (in a firm packed full of state educated solicitors) etc. etc.
   
   
4. never buying a drink (they don't expect endless rounds from the trainee but one drink during Friday drinks every so often is nice... ) I suspect London corporate teams never go to the pub on a Friday though....
   
   
5. keep your options open my brother is in the process of moving from pursuer to defender (he is a litigator) and is very glad that he generally has good working relationships with most of the big firms up here. Scotland is small and I'm always amused locally at how many people I run into socially who know him through work (we have quite an unusual surname and look alike so they tend to clock the connection).
   
   
6. Don't assume that because your father is a senior figure in the legal profession that his gravitas will wear off on you. You are still the trainee and will be so until you aren't the trainee.

[PetiteRaleuse]

Yeah you'd have to be pretty thick.

I'm not a city lawyer, but use them as a client in my line of work, a lot.

I would say that as a junior client relationship is key. The slightest doubt on your capability and we go above your head to the partner, even though we know that she costs more. It is much better to tell a client that 'I don't know, I will find out' than try and bluff your way through. Because very often we are calling to confirm a minor point that we know well, not ask for info, iyswim.

I was very about a junior who gave me some bad advice, when I asled a question expecting to know the answer. I asked her, can you check that, off the clock if need be. She called me back a few minutes later to correct what she had said. If she hadn't, I'd probably have called the partner to, erm, clarify the questionable point.

[stella1w]

It would never occur to me to nick wip

[InGloriousTechnicolor]

"contradicting the supervising partner in meetings with client and advocate"



Wow, I can't believe someone did that.

[GW297]

This is fascinating! My sister is a lawyer.

[PetiteRaleuse]

Seriously on the JKR point I made, this is particularly relevant I think in niche markets like the City. Don't blab about people in the pub. It very often comes back and bites you on the arse. I was once chatting to a lawyer in my field who told me a hilarious anecdote about a client, told to her by a colleague. It was about one of my colleagues but from years before; it was pretty funny, but since I had already heard it from the horse's mouth it came across as unprofessional.

[lurkerspeaks]

InGlorious see point 6. I think it is relevant here!

[InGloriousTechnicolor]

lurker, please don't tell me that all 6 mistakes were made by the same person??