Archaeologists are DNA testing some bones they've found to see if they might be the remains of Richard III. Are there any other members of the Royal Family....

[seeker]

where DNA testing might produce interesting results?

Sorry, this is the link for that long quote.

Just a quicky - surely, given the determination to slander Anne Boleyn at the time of her execution, they would have shouted it from the rooftops if she had had syphilis?
But then again, that would intimate that Henry must have it and they wouldn't want that, would they.

Ah, toddler music, I remember that

There used to be a theory (may still be) that Henry had syphilis. Does it pass from father to child? I think so.

Loving Richard III and the bacon butty.

BTW, if anyone wants to read a great background colour book about the Wars of the Roses, written by an academic historian, I can totally recommend Helen Castor's Blood and Roses, which is based on the Paston letters and brings in a lot of the wider political history too.

Also, wasn't Richard's body supposed to have been mutilated after death. That could account to blows to the back of the head.

I thought he was supposed to have been chucked into the River Soar actually. Is that not true, or was he retrieved from there for burial?

And if so, did they retrieve the right body?

Ooh, I'll look that up, thanks mad. I love the Pastons.

There's a lovely bit in one of the letters where the wife is writing to her husband and they're joking about how she's got such a 'shapely' figure now, she really needs a new dress (she's in her third trimester). It just feels very affectionate and homely.

(This is why I'd be a terrible historian ... I always go off into the anecdotes.)

As far as I remember, Richard's body was thrown into the river Soar after the dissolution of the monasteries.
I really ought to get some work done but this thread is just so alluring.

Oh no, scratch that. The River Soar legend is about what supposedly happened to his tomb when the Priory was broken up at Dissolution.

The DNA tests will take 12 weeks!

Want to know NOW!

x-post

We're just going to have to keep pressing refresh for 12 weeks!

Were we channeling Mad ?

There must have been something wrong with Henry as none of his male children survived into adult hood, also his brother died very young. Could Elizabeth have thought there was something wrong with her as her brother had died and her sister had a phantom pregnancy and died.

That's a point fanjo - or she might have been terrified of the idea of having a baby after seeing all of that (although I suppose you could argue that for most of the population!).

you're right LRD , syphilis can pass from father to child too.
There's a pleasant new thought to accompany my breakfast bagel (cream cheese and bacon if anyone's interested).

Ewww!

Sorry, happy.

Arthur (Henry VIII's older brother) was supposed to have died from TB wasn't he. I think Catherine (of Aragon) caught it too but survived. Couldn't swear to that. I'd need to check it out.

She lived a pretty long time for someone with congenital syphilis, I think it usually results in infant death.

Don't know the Tudors at all, but Fanjo yes that sounds possible, maybe she was aware that something was wrong with the family's fertility, in a non-specific way (perhaps that Kell positive thing someone linked to) and never married because she didn't want to pass on whatever it was.

Some babies with congenital syphilis must survive a fair time, since it's associated with learning disabilities and so they must live long enough for that to become apparent.

Though, if it were that, Elizabeth must have had it very mildly since she was hardly struggling to be clever!

Talk on the radio this morning about a state funeral if it turns out to be him. Wouldn't that just be fantastic!

It'd have to be Catholic, obviously- can you have a Catholic state funeral? And where?

That would be fantastic!

If it were Catholic, it'd be fascinating - would they dig out the old medieval guidelines for state funerals? I would absolutely love to see that.

Gosh, that would be ALL SORTS of protocol difficulties, wouldn't it.

I can't see it. I know he's a monarch but I think it would just be surreal. Small ceremony at Windsor alongside his brother probably more likely. And what we want if it also involves re-examination of the two mystery bodies in there.

I feel a complete ghoul.

Oh, but it would be so interesting to do.

I know someone who adapted a medieval liturgy to be sung in her local church during a special Mass, and she had to do loads of work to find out exactly how to make it all authentic with the lighting and the clothes and the music. So I'm sure someone could do the same for a state funeral, although it'd be much more lavish, obviously. And maybe having it as a reproduction would make it feel less of a protocol issue? I don't know.

"I can't see it. I know he's a monarch but I think it would just be surreal. Small ceremony at Windsor alongside his brother probably more likely. And what we want if it also involves re-examination of the two mystery bodies in there."
at small ceremony
at re-examination.

MadBusLady I know how you feel - I'm like that with the remains of the executed under the floor of the Chapel of St Peter ad Vincula in the Tower of London - those of Anne Boleyn, Jane Rochford, Katherine Howard and so on. I find it fascinating what they found when the chapel was renovated during Queen Victoria's reign and, as much as I believe that the souls there should be left in peace, a small, morbid part of me wishes there was a way, with the wonders of technology/science now, that we could find out more about those resting there.