Archaeologists are DNA testing some bones they've found to see if they might be the remains of Richard III. Are there any other members of the Royal Family....

[seeker]

where DNA testing might produce interesting results?

Innocent Traitor was good though.

As was The Lady Elizabeth.

Her factual books on Elizabeth 1 and Mary Queen of Scots are my favourites though.

Thanks Hawise.
Yes, I don't think I could handle a book about poor Lady Jane Grey - I'd be sobbing all the way through.
The last one about her that I read was the novelisation of that Helena Bonham Carter film in the 80s, which may not have been 100% historically accurate - I seem to remember it had her falling in love with Guildford Dudley and them planning to wipe out poverty and disease together.

I would love to learn more about Queen Matilda our real first Queen, any recommendations?

happy - ooh, lovely! I don't get anything that early, that must be exciting. Did you find what you wanted in it?

Btw, skip this if you're not as much of a geek as me, but I was just working out who my manuscripts belonged to (and it was in other catalogues, as he was keen on his books). I think he's this fantastic petulent looking bloke: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Knyvett,_4th_Baron_Berners

Anyway, I was looking at his family tree and I found that his cousin. The info about her was so utterly MN I had to come and post:

'ELIZABETH KNYVETT (c.1574-c.1630)


Elizabeth Knyvett was the daughter of Sir Henry Knyvett of Charlton, Wiltshire (1539-1598) and Elizabeth Stumpe (d.1585). She married Thomas, Lord Clinton (1567/8-1619), heir to the earl of Lincoln, although he did not inherit the title until 1616.

They had eighteen children?Elizabeth (c.1591-July 20, 1624), Anne (1595/6-December 26, 1632), Theophilus (c.1600-May 21, 1667), Dorcas, Frances (c.1603-1626+), Sara, Susan, Arabella (1603-c.1630), Henry, Thomas, Catherine (d. January 7, 1618), Lucy, Edward (c.1604-by 1616), Charles, Robert, Knyvett, John, and James. Five daughters and four sons survived infancy.

In 1622, as a widow and with a great deal of knowledge of her subject, Elizabeth published a tract on breastfeeding called ?The Countesse of Lincolnes Nurserie.? She dedicated it to Theophilus?s wife. All was not well between them, however. In 1625, Theophilus brought suit against his mother in chancery, attempting to take away from her the guardianship of his three younger brothers. Biography: Oxford DNB entry under ?Clinton [née Knevitt], Elizabeth.?

Gotta love a good MIL/breastfeeding debate!

yeah I have 'she wolves' but wanted a bit more, I am a bit obsessed with her I think.

shes our first queen there must be a book about her.

I've seen that film as well.

One of her actual quotes to him was something along the line of I have no use for you in my bed but by day your place in by my side.

I'm just surprised in an age where personal privacy was non existence in a court riven by intrigue and having seen close family fall from power to execution bring my own status and money into jeopardy - Lady Rochford went anywhere near a Queen and adultery again.

LDR I'm very surprised, I thought infants were still handed off to wet nurses at this time in high born families. There's the bones of a great story rattling around there don't you think?

What are you researching? Work or pleasure?

Interesting points about Katherine Howard. In Bring Up the Bodies (which is amazing) Mantel suggests the possibility, based on the work of George Bernard, that Anne may have been shagging around to get pregnant because Henry wasn't really up to it any more. Until I read that I'd always assumed Anne was 100% framed.

Well, it sounds as if she was very unusual. I think there have always been women who insisted on breastfeeding, even when it was very unusual. But I thought it was lovely to hear of someone actually writing something to defend it, at such an early time.

You can just imagine her DIL, though, right? 'pray, gentlewomen of the Net of Mothers, doth my MIL exceed the bounds of reason in her schemes for my nourishing the babe from mine own pap? May I call her 'crone' or will seeker rightly chastise me?'

I like to imagine it.

The research on this was just me googling for fun, but I am doing a PhD on medieval reading culture and that bit is work.

Doesn't Philippa Gregory have her doing that in The Other Boleyn Girl, too?

What a totally fab thread, chock full of knowledge

Brilliant

Oh, I don't remember that, Tunip, but it's years since I read TOBG.

I've always assumed Hilary Mantel is much better at reading the original sources and historiography than Philippa Gregory, but perhaps I'm being unfair.

just found this historical novel on Queen Matilda 'lady of the english' by elizabeth chadwick. Anyone read it?

fanjodisfunction - Tracey Borman has a book on Matilda - its one of my favourites too.

Well, strictly speaking, a crone was a woman past menopause, usually one who lived alone. In pagan tradition this is no insult though, being associated with the triple goddess, wisdom and knowledge.

AIBVerilyU?

Here

That is awesome LRD! Never come across anything like that before. Although there is a medieval penitential tract that always made me smile just because the title sounds so much like a modern self-help book: Handlyng Synne. Honest, it's 14thC, that's what it's called.

("Yea, poster the original, thy MIL exceeds the bounds of reason quite! Let her take her busyboddie's nose out of it! Dost she practice witchcraft against you? Beware, for she is toxic and a follower of Narcissus!")

Philippa Gregory did do a history PhD but her historical imagination seems to me a bit shallow sometimes - the characters seem like modern people transplanted. Whereas Mantel seems to be better at capturing the strangeness of the past.

Sorry, happy, that was sort of an aside to seeker as I'm assuming she is reading her own thread. She was making the point on another thread that it's annoying when people on MN start insulting mothers-in-law on threads.

But yes, true, not a good insult really!

poets - ah, but you have to go for it now, you've told us about it!

No way, mad?!

Oh, god, I am excited and now paranoid. Do you know me?

A chapter of my PhD is on Handlyng Synne. I love it to bits.

tunip - yes, completely agree about Mantel vs. Gregory.

Its in the The Other Boleyn Girl - with her brother.

I though most had been proven to be false so its assumed the rest are?

No hint before Henry had enough - she'd lost a series of babies last one late enough to know it was a boy so she was conceiving, Katerine was dead so new Queen and new DC would have no legitimacy problems like Ann DC could have, Jane Seymore was around playing hard to get, Ann was difficult and Henry found her increasingly annoying.

So very convenient to Henry.

poets Seems to me you've done the hardest bit, letting your 'famous' peers see your work. Well done you!
I don't know anything about poetry publication. Do they prefer you submit to only one publishing house at a time?
Come on. Summon up that courage and get it sent off. We'll be here to hold your hand.