Archaeologists are DNA testing some bones they've found to see if they might be the remains of Richard III. Are there any other members of the Royal Family....

[seeker]

where DNA testing might produce interesting results?

Anne of Cleves was educated the Erasmian way I read somewhere. All about preparing for wifedom. She seemed to be intelligent though, certainly in the way she handled Henry and the speed in which she learned English. The irony was that Erasmus praised learned women, e.g. Margaret More but did not advocate learning for women in general.

Jane was not well educated, I agree, if not a bit dim. I have an irrational dislike of Jane, mostly I suspect due to her haste in marrying Henry. Anne's body was not even cold....

I have just googled some massively patronizing shite about Anne's education. DH must think I've been sucking lemons.

Apparently, she can't have been very educated because 'all' she learned about was household management.

That comment was written by someone who clearly has no clue about household management for a big house, wasn't it?!

Oh, and apparently she wasn't very good at music, and was good at needlework. So she must have been dim.

I find it hard to warm to Jane, too. I think it's the portrait - she looks so butter-wouldn't-melt.

Katie Same here...

Henry VIII was a serial killer pyschopath. Discuss.

Also Jane had a bum chin.

Anne of Cleves managed not only her house but her own estates that she cleverly wangled out of Henry after the separation. Flanders Mare indeed! She got Hever too and was popular with her step-children. Elizabeth and Mary would not have had much time for a dullard. I suspect Anne was very smart indeed.

Sloe

He was a madman. A case study in how absolute power corrupts. He started out well and went downhill into tyranny the moment he didn't get his own way over Anne B. And went on from there...

I think you may be right katie.

I always rather liked the fact she made it so very clear that she preferred to be the king's 'good sister'! I think I read that her brother at home was no barrell of laughs so probably a nice house of her own to do as she pleased in was just what she fancied.

I didn't think Katerine Howard was innocent as she was basically caught in flagrante with Tomas Culpeper - her accomplice was Lady Rochford, who previously been married to Ann Bolyns brother, lost her head and confessed to all the previous meeting straight away.

I also though the fraction at court trying to bring the Howard's down were worried Henry would over look her actions. Well that is how Alsion weir and that Stark guy portray it.

Though as the confusion about her birth date she may have been much younger than 15.

She did also employ Francis Dereham who she'd slept with prior to marriage mainly as they planned to marry before she was thrown in Henry's path. There was no evidence of sexual relationship with him after her marriage to Henry but it was made to look bad but she was condemned for it though previously sex behave marrying king wasn't an issue.

Hadn't read that Ann of Cleves was considered poorly educated - perhaps not taught some skills considered standard by English Court - like music but her English Ladies in waiting did leave accounts that suggest they were very concerned she didn't know anything about sex so wasn't aware Henry wasn't performing.

Are there any historical novels that really get into Jane Seymour? I enjoyed Gregory's Tudor ones (The White Queen less so, as others have said) but Jane never really features.

poets that sounds great stuff, I would really enjoy reading that.

cassandra - noooo, I'd forgotten all about Starkey's existance, don't remind me!

Before I read the blurb I assumed Wolf Hall would be about Jane. I'd like to read about her. I have a dim memory of reading a novel about her childhood but can't now remember ... will try to think.

I thought Catharine Howard was 19 not 15 when she married Henry?

LRD, that an interesting thought, about her maybe not being as dim as she's always painted.

Well, she can't have been very dim, tunip. Her syntax in that letter is good, and I think syntax is something that's fairly telling, don't you think? I would like to know more about her, actually, I wonder ...

I love David Starkey. I know he is a bit of a twit but he has a way of explaining History that is so passionate you cant help but feel excited. Ditto the Scottish guy from Coast.

I did too LRD, about Wolf Hall. I spent the whole book thinking when Wolf Hall would appear, and its was the last two words.

I have bringing up the bodies but have not really got into it. Is it as good?

It not clear when she was born TunipTheVegemal - father was a second son of Norfolk line who married about 3 times I think - at least one wife with previous DC. Her mother and other DC died when she was small - father buggered off married again went abroad all a bit confused and records and which DC she was not really clear.

She was left in Step Grandmothers care or none care.

Basically she wasn't important to care about till her uncle Duck of Norfolk was looking round for a replacement to Ann of Cleaves to depower the fraction behind Ann at court.

Contemporary accounts refer to her as 'very young' - went she met Henry.

Can't do "Wolf Hall"
All that "he said" first person POV.

Going back to Richard III's mtDNA - the full story of how it was obtained, and what else might usefully be done in the future, can be found in John Ashdown-Hill's book 'The Last Days of Richard III". Absolutely fascinating! Have just re-read it since getting excited about the Leicester discovery.

A must read is 'she wolves' its all about strong medeival queens. Matilda, elenor, catherine, isabella, and how because of them we had mary and elizabeth.

I agree this is the best thread!

Cassandra

When was she caught in flagrante with Culpepper, I missed that!

And wasn't she asked to employ Dereham by her step-Grandmother? I suspect that the Howards wanted her up-duffed and figured that putting Dereham under her nose would increase their chances, so to speak... Also, given that Dereham knew Katherines past, she didn't have much choice in giving him a place, had she said no he could have blabbed.

Ohhh, I love Bringing up the Bodies. It had me from the first paragraph.