MNHQ here: keep council meetings accessible!

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

Apologies for the determinedly unglamorous thread title - we've gathered you here today to talk about council meetings!

As some of you will know, during the pandemic local authorities (councils) were given permission to hold their meetings online. This not only gave the nation the chance to enjoy the proceedings of Handforth Parish Council: it also meant that everyone who otherwise found in-person attendance difficult - perhaps because they had mobility or health issues, or because they had caring responsibilities or young children - could take part (as a councillor) or watch (as a local voter) with no barriers.

Last week councils were told that these online or hybrid meetings will have to stop almost immediately, and that everyone has to return to holding meetings in person.

We think this is a bad move, and we've been busily collecting signatures from councillors who are also parents to add to our open letter to the relevant government minister, Robert Jenrick.

If you're a councillor who's also a parent - or you know someone who is - we'd love to add your name. You can co-sign by adding your name to this document.

If you're not a parent who's a councillor BUT you agree with us anyway please help by sharing our social posts (eg here on Twitter or here on Facebook) to help us get as many signatures as possible.

And if you need any more persuasion - Jackie Weaver agrees with us

Thanks
MNHQ

I frequently have to attend evening meetings (officer) and it's been great not to have to work extended days and face travelling home alone in the dark, often at 9 or 10 o'clock at night. It's much easier to have a proper break between daytime work and evening meetings whereas previously I'd end up working through. Dialling in rather than attending in person hasn't detracted from my contribution to the debate. So I hope the safety of lone women (offers and Members) is also a factor that's taken into account.

I find if I'm at home, I'm on 'Mum Duty', so haven't been able to participate in many online meetings as they fall right in the middle of dinner/bed/bath time. When they are in person, they have my full attention and my DH has to step up.

There should be an option to observe online.

Would like to add to others’ voices that the public do not have the right to “participate” in meetings. 15 minutes is put aside at the beginning of meetings for the public to speak.

Also some matters are closed to the public, eg discussions of salaries of the clerk and the bloke cutting the grass.

Much of the parish council work is financial which is a terrific bore although necessary of course.

Handforth pc makes pc meetings look like a laugh a minute. Sadly not the case! I think filming proceedings to make funny YouTube clips was a 9-day wonder after the Handforth debacle but I’m not sure anyone could be bothered now.

Online meetings have pros and cons. Yes, you can stay in the warm and not have to turn out of an evening. Yes, you can surf the net whilst someone is droning on about where to site a memorial bench. But otoh as pp observed, some people are not looking at the papers, some people are a bit intimidated to speak in a zoom situation so the discussion can be dominated more than in “real life”.

I think the hybrid version is the best option, but I really do think that more people need to know about The Council - it's usually more than one Council, often 3 Councils (County, District and Town/Parish) in any given location, unless you're a City, Borough or a Bishopric (eg: Horsham) then you might just have just 1 or 2 with Committees, Wards and Working Groups. And then there's.....

What are each Council's different responsibilities? What's their Precept? Which one is responsible for Roads, Litter Bins, Education, Streetlights, collecting Rubbish, collecting Council Tax? What is a Councillor? What is an Officer? Who gets paid? Who doesn't get paid? etc, etc, etc.

As these things aren't currently covered by Education, I think more people should educate themselves about "The Council" (their Councils) if they can.

I'm sure Jackie Weaver would agree.

I'm a mum of a 10yr old, and also a Parish Councillor.
I've just this moment come off our last Zoom PC meeting.
I'm quite pleased we are going back to face to face meeting. The discussion and debate isn't the same, you try and talk and someone else does face to face you can take your ques from them properly. I'm not nearly as engaged virtually. I kept wondering if my son was in bed/had he cleaned his teeth, I would think about that when I'm out (he's with his dad, he's fine). Much like working from home my concentration is not solely at work. Dodgy connectivity, residents unmuting constantly.
Yes virtually they are benefits, but we've never had problems being inclusive, residents have attended have never had a problem with attending. Meetings have always been able to be recorded and fully minuted for viewing.

I'm a parish councillor, and we're all very pleased to be getting back to face to face meetings. No parishioners have attended the zoom meetings, to be honest I think the ladies that usually attend wouldn't have internet at home anyway.
The discussion is much less valuable online, and there's no way of seeing when someone wants to say something but needs a prompt.
I've also been guilty of getting distracted by the dinner boiling over, making a cup of tea etc

I disagree with this campaign because I don’t think it will have the desired effect. It has always been difficult to recruit parish councillors. It is an unpaid role and time consuming, but some people are prepared do it because they care about their community. A lot of councillors resigned when the register of personal interests had to be published online ( instead of being held available for inspection by the local authority) because they objected to having to put so much personal information about themselves and their families online where it could be harvested by fraudsters. After the Handforth episode, I think that compulsory zoom meetings would be the last straw for many and councillors would leave in droves. I don’t think that putting everything online would magically convince lots of new people to stand for election as councillors to replace them, and I can envisage a lot of parishes having to merge. I also think it would affect the quality of debate and intimidate members of the public from raising matters with the parish council, given that the parish council is dealing with very local matters on which neighbours might disagree.

You talk sense, Happyoldbat, and I agree with Thehateisnotgood, too,,in that there is not one council - there are a whole host of them with different areas of remit. Parish councillors are unpaid and in fact have no authority outside meetings: you don’t stride round the area representing your parishioners.

DH is a parish Councillor and their Zoom meetings have worked really well (after one or two teething troubles at the beginning with some of the older Councillors). He is not keen on going back to F2F meetings in a couple of week's time. He'd rather have the option to carry on from home for now - he works with vulnerable people who have largely stayed at home for the last year or more but who are slowly being encouraged by him to leave their homes and meet up again in a safe environment. DH and his staff have all stuck to the rules to protect service users and is at a loss to understand how it's suddenly OK for him to meet indoors at the village hall where there is poor ventilation with 12+ other people when that isn't allowed in other settings.

I would have thought most councillors would have had two vaccinations. I really don’t think he’s more at risk from some parish councillors than mixing with the service users themselves. Funny how people always seem to think the most covid-y people are those they don’t fancy meeting up.....

With

(the “with” disappeared from my post)

I don’t agree with the petition either. Face to face meetings are far better.

My concern about virtual meetings is that of Cllrs being fed information surreptitiously by a third party during the meeting. They could easily be receiving texts or e-mails or even hand written msgs by someone not in view of the camera, this would not be possible in a physical meeting without the activity being observed.

@SuperSue77 most councillors read their committee papers on an iPad or similar device in public meetings anyway these days

That’s true, but there’s more chance of spotting a msg popping up on their screen if they’re in a room with other people and possibly public in the gallery.

I think transparency and accountability are best achieved by holding face to face meetings wherever possible.

However I think it would be more inclusive if members of the public were also allowed to join online, whether they are participating or just observing. hybrid.

Pre-Covid some large councils live streamed their meetings anyway.

@SuperSue77 I don't think there is any rule against them getting messages during the meeting though. They aren't sitting an exam.

Having hybrid meetings would be wonderful, we’ve seen a huge increase in community participation. People can drop in at the start to address the council and leave easily, parents who can’t leave their children can have their say.

We never get young people with families attend. In lockdown we had a few teenagers attend to address the council about issues that mattered to them, I’m certain this wouldn’t have happened face to face. Normally we get the same people attend, all the councillors are of the same demographic too which isn’t accurately representing the community. Hybrid meetings allow for much better representation.

My local council has live webcast / streamed meetings for several years now. It gives a wonderful layer of accessibility for the public observing a meeting and I totally support that..

However, continuing meetings remotely isn't something I believe is effective going forward. Meetings are far more effective in person face to face.

As previously commented public has a very limited opportunity to address a committee but, when they do they should have complete confidence that they are present and attentive. Not logged off with a camera and mic switched off... how would you know they were even there when the majority in a committee may not even speak?

In terms of hybrid, think it could be difficult for a chair to manage a hybrid meeting. How can you avoid those present in the room not dominating the meeting?

The cost for this set up and on going prevision of these facility is expensive, with councils already having to make services cuts and raise council tax is this a good use of money ?

I also think a thought should be given to appeals and reviews, how can those present be confident that exempt and private items stay that way when you don't know who is sitting beside or across from someone in their own homes?

Just because you can doesn't always mean you should in my opinion.

"Everyone in local government that I know (councillors, officers) is keen to enable this access to continue and it is frustrating to be unable to."

@KeyboardWorriers your statement isn't strictly true, a council can continue to live stream a meeting it just must be from a building accessible to the public not people's homes.

@Faithtrusts but the can't allow remote participation for members of the public any more. They can watch the live stream but if they wanted to speak at the meeting they would still have to attend in person.

For me, online meetings should continue if for no other reason than being a female. If you can attend from the safety of your own home you aren't likely to be abused, kidnapped or killed. Women aren't (they should be but they aren't) safe on the streets