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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Refugee crisis: please take our survey to let us know where you stand

313 replies

SarahMumsnet · 03/09/2015 16:30

Good afternoon, everyone.

Many of you will have seen the thread started by Theremustbesomething suggesting that Mumsnet consider campaigning for the government to change its policy towards asylum seekers fleeing from war zones.

Justine posted this morning to say that "we think that the best way forward is to poll all users to gauge support for this. While it's clear from this thread that many feel extremely passionately about the need to do more, we've had a look at other threads on the subject, and there are a range of views. As a rule we don't campaign for political change unless we're clear that it's something that a substantial majority of Mumsnetters support, so we'd need to be sure of that before committing to an 'official' campaign."

We've now set up the poll; you can fill it in here. We'd be grateful if as many of you as possible could take it, to let us know your views. We'll make sure this thread is prominently displayed across the site.

Thanks very much,
MNHQ

OP posts:
HannaClotta · 03/09/2015 20:22

Don't see the problem with all of them getting involved tbh?

But we'll agree to disagree. I'm pro, you're not. I'm not here to debate it, I'd just like to help. And if MN wants to get behind a campaign to help, then great. But if its members prefer not to and vote accordingly, then fine. I will still be able to offer my support and help elsewhere. It would just be really nice, and helpful, and would make me feel happy/pleased/proud in all those ways it has the opposite effect on you and those sharing your PoV, if this 'club' got involved.

Hope that makes sense because I'm now off out to walk the dog, and then am eating dinner so won't be back to explain for a while Grin

alexpolistigrakia · 03/09/2015 20:23

juneau - since you wondered why the family did not travel by road from Turkey to Greece.

This is what most refugees used to do in the past. The Evros border was the main crossing point into the EU. But then they built a huge great fence, and it now looks like this. This is why they go by boat. They pay unscrupulous traffickers, who cram them into unseaworthy vessels, far beyond the capacity of any of the boats.

Samcro · 03/09/2015 20:25

I do hoe if mn does do a campaign they do it for all refugees and not just mums and children,
And perhaps they can suggest who will pay for this

RealHuman · 03/09/2015 20:25

Sure, I see what you're saying, and I'm also not keen to debate, just trying to answer your questions and also clarify to myself a little the reasons I'm not comfortable with the suggestion. Hope you've got something hot for dinner; it's cold out tonight Smile

toriap2 · 03/09/2015 20:25

Done

greathat · 03/09/2015 20:28

Done. These people are fleeing in fear of their lives. They are not coming to England to get paid more, they are trying to get away from ISIS. If a family's choice is to get on a boat where they are very much aware of what might possibly happen or staying where they are, and they are still getting on the damn boat, it shows how very desperate they are. They need our help. Its not their fault, they are powerless

onlytoes · 03/09/2015 20:33

Juneau I agree with this part of your post: "I just feel there is a lot of knee-jerk hysteria going on and that the media loves to whip people up with emotive images."

Where was this mass calling for support and outpouring of competitive sympathy hitherto the publication of that one harrowing photograph? Don't people watch the news? There were appeals back in, I think, January for money for Syrian refugees - on the news, in the newspapers, between TV adverts. Why was no-one pestering the government then to take a quota of Syrian refugees? Xenophobic commentary across our country is shameful but it is also shameful to have an indifferent population who react only on the day their heart strings are pulled.

goblinhat · 03/09/2015 20:46

I oppose.

Mumsnet is not a pressure group.

juneau · 03/09/2015 20:50

Thanks for the link to the Evros fence. I was unaware of that (not sure how, since I've read masses on this), but I was.

My comment about the life jackets still stands. I read somewhere (I think it was on MN, so not sure if its correct or not), that the parents paid smugglers 8000 euros for the crossing. If they had that kind of money to pay for one small part of their journey I continue to be baffled that they didn't bother to purchase life jackets for the DC and the wife, who I assume couldn't swim either, since she too drowned in calm seas. Bodrum is a seaside resort with many places that offer water sports. A few life jackets would be easy to come by.

iamaboveandBeyond · 03/09/2015 20:52

Indeed, where were all these people back in january. Oh wait.

LightningOnlyStrikesOnce · 03/09/2015 20:57

Looks like UK gov is shifting stance anyway, so maybe mnhq can hold their fire. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34135870

I agree with the need to stabilise that region, but what exactly are we / can we do about it I wonder?

middlings · 03/09/2015 21:12

Done

Allgunsblazing · 03/09/2015 21:14

Done.

GinandJag · 03/09/2015 21:15

Point I was trying to make, Mrs Ultra. This gets so hidden among the "as a mother" rhetoric.

AutumnshadesofGold · 03/09/2015 21:18

Done. I too feel this is a humanitarian issue now. I couldn't care less about the politics tbh which may make me naive or stupid.

I heard on Radio Scotland this morning someone comparing this to the Ethiopian Famine and the "Feed the World" response - why nothing like that now?

alltheworld · 03/09/2015 21:20

It is not a political issue it is a burning human rights and humanitarian issue. Done.

MrsOs · 03/09/2015 21:34

Don

bestcatintheworld · 03/09/2015 21:35

done.

BastardGoDarkly · 03/09/2015 21:37

Done.

sleepyelectricsheep · 03/09/2015 21:38

Done. And yes I agree it's a humanitarian issue and should not be about politics.

bookwormbeagle · 03/09/2015 21:43

Done.

Theremustbesomething · 03/09/2015 21:45

I don't wish in any way to stifle debate on this issue; it's very important that everyone has their say. But ultimately, that's all that any of us can express - an opinion. None of us has the right to say definitively what MN should or should not be, but in the same spirit, I'm going to add my ha'penny's worth in here too and present a quick re-run of the thinking behind my original argument.

I started the original thread because I was horrified and felt powerless, and judging by the comments of other users, this feeling seems to have been pretty widespread.

We can go back and forth on this matter all night. We can debate the purpose of the site until we are blue in the face.

What it actually boils down to is one simple fact. It's something I put in my original post, and all I can do is reiterate it here. I am not having to put my beautiful 1 year old DD into a boat in Turkey, without a lifejacket, because I have sold everything I own to pay a trafficker for a seat on said boat. But if I were, I would be on my hands and knees, sobbing and screaming and begging and clawing at the clothes of every single person posting here, in our nice safe houses in our nice, safe country, to take my DD and to look after her and to keep her alive and safe. And, without wishing to be presumptuous, and without knowing you personally, I imagine that each and every one of you would do the same, because we all would. Is that an emotional response? God almighty, yes. And so it should be.

We all have the ability and the right to make our own choices on these issues. But we also all know that there are moral consequences to all the choices that we make. Let's be absolutely clear about this. If you genuinely believe that the most important consideration here is whether or not Mumsnet is a parenting website, and whether it should remain only as such, then you absolutely have that right. The whole point of a poll is that it is a democratic process. But if as a result of your posts, Mumsnet decides that it is unable to go ahead with supporting this issue publicly, then you have to live with the moral consequences of that choice. Make no mistake: there are many of us here who do support this, and it may only take a few voices to scupper the whole thing. You have to sleep tonight knowing that you could have done something which might have saved the life of someone's son or daughter, and you actively and deliberately chose not to do that.

I would like to apologise in advance to all the other Mumsnet users for this post. I don't think of myself as an aggressive person and I genuinely don't want to force anyone to make a choice with which they are not happy. But I do believe that we all need to be clear about the consequences of those choices. And the magnitude of those consequences tonight seem to me to be far reaching. Let's think again about that mum, begging you to take her child. I can't help thinking that this is the equivalent of peeling her fingers off your arm and telling her that you will not save her child's life, because it is very important to you that you are able to discuss lunchboxes freely.

goblinhat · 03/09/2015 21:54

You have to sleep tonight knowing that you could have done something which might have saved the life of someone's son or daughter, and you actively and deliberately chose not to do that.

That is a presumptuous and inflammatory comment. You are suggesting that those who don't support Mumsnet taking this political stance don't care or are doing nothing to help in others ways.
I have been working hard this week to raise funds, transport and pack goods, and highlight the issues, I just don't think this is within the remit of Mumsnet

AutumnshadesofGold · 03/09/2015 21:55

Theremustbesomething

You have just said so eloquently what I wish I could have said, thank you. I agree with EVERY single word.