Refugee crisis: please take our survey to let us know where you stand

[SarahMumsnet]

Good afternoon, everyone.

Many of you will have seen the thread started by Theremustbesomething suggesting that Mumsnet consider campaigning for the government to change its policy towards asylum seekers fleeing from war zones.

Justine posted this morning to say that "we think that the best way forward is to poll all users to gauge support for this. While it's clear from this thread that many feel extremely passionately about the need to do more, we've had a look at other threads on the subject, and there are a range of views. As a rule we don't campaign for political change unless we're clear that it's something that a substantial majority of Mumsnetters support, so we'd need to be sure of that before committing to an 'official' campaign."

We've now set up the poll; you can fill it in here. We'd be grateful if as many of you as possible could take it, to let us know your views. We'll make sure this thread is prominently displayed across the site.

Thanks very much,
MNHQ

Done and very much support.

I agree this transcends politics. It's about humanity and whether we believe human life and survival is worth making sacrifices for. I do .

It's really a very, very short poll, done in seconds, in case anyone was putting it off till they have more time.

done

So what you're saying is that because various other issues haven't been backed by MN campaigns, this one shouldn't? What exactly does that achieve? How many attempts were made to start campaigns for the issues you're referring to? Not that it's relevant to this now, two wrongs don't make a right!

So Atticus, rather than just using the phrase 'it politicises Mumsnet' can you actually explain WHY we shouldn't do this? Or indeed politicise MN as and when enough posters wish to? Why is that a bad thing?

How is it any different than any other kind of democracy? The users vote. Apathy gets you nowhere. If you feel strongly enough either way about an issue, get involved.

What's the worst that can happen? Active convos gets a bit derailed by people trying to help lives in crisis while others want to continue living in their own cosy little bubble pretending bad things aren't happening in the world?

Please do explain about politicising and why this campaign (or any) is bad?

Done.

Done

I'm torn on this issue of letting more refugees in or not as i feel for their plight but wonder how we can support them when so many homeless families here are in B&B's or hostels due to the housing shortage

Done and I totally agree with pp that this isn't a political issue it is a humanitarian one.

Mumsnet may be a parenting website and that may be what brought many of us here originally but it has transcended that to be a voice. A voice of women and men, who individually might not have any voice or any power but collectively can make and enforce real change. That IS politics; that is democracy in action. We must continue to use this platform to make positive changes that make things better for everyone.

'This isn't a parenting issue'? I want my children to understand my values and my political views. Parents and children are dying and at risk in Syria ( and other countries) and they are attempting to improve their lot by escaping in any way they can. It's an issue worthy of a parenting site - and IMO MN is a site where ( in the main) mothers discuss issues that are important to them not just lunch boxes and bedtimes.

Aylan's family were refused asylum in Canada.

The Canadian's have now changed their minds.
Abdullah Kurdi says he will not go, he wants to be buried near his family.

It's self selecting hanna and you only have to look at the various threads to see that many people feel very strongly that many of those trying to enter the UK are economic migrants rather than political refugees.

Its not an appropriate use of the site because we frequently debate issues that people feel very strongly about and that is one of the great things about the site. If the site takes a "side" in these matters and then purport to speak on behalf of MN members as a collective then that hampers debate and that is a bad thing.

I am all for people getting involved in politics. I am all for people using the site to inform themselves or to explore different views and opinions and even for people to try to persuade others to their way of thinking. But for the site to take a side in such matters and campaign on these issues will impact on that, which I don't think is a good thing. I may be in the minority in which case fine, but I personally don't want to engage in debate like that.

@atticusclaw2

Its not a simple issue though and many people feel very strongly one way or another. I cried earlier looking at the pictures so don't assume I am anti assistance. Clearly the site doesn't just deal with parenting issues, (I've been on here for 10 years and engage on a daily basis, the vast majority of the time it's nothing to do with parenting), and clearly there are children involved in the crisis. That doesn't make it appropriate to politicise the site in this way.

If people feel strongly they can write to their MPs. But the site shouldn't take a collective decision on the views of the members (many of whom won't bother to vote because it will attract mainly those who have an interest). I just don't see where it stops if that happens and that would be a shame since there is fantastic debate that goes on here which would be impacted by the site taking a side/view on each issue.

Thanks for sharing your view on this, atticus. To explain our position a bit: Mumsnet as an organisation doesn't campaign on its own; all our campaigns are user-generated. When Theremustbesomething contacted us earlier in the week asking that we get involved in this issue, we suggested she start a thread to gauge support among the rest of the site members. When it became clear that a lot of users were actively asking for a Mumsnet campaign, we decided that the best way to proceed was to offer everyone on the site the chance to have their say - because, as you point out, the thread itself may well not have been representative of the views of the site as a whole, since it would tend to attract people who were invested in the cause already.

We don't want to misrepresent our members, or politicise the site; in fact, we work hard to maintain the site's political neutrality. But it's been clear over the course of the day that this is an issue behind which a substantial number of Mumsnetters are throwing their support. Polling the membership at large seemed to us to be the best way of determining whether or not the support is site-wide.

Hopefully you'll take part in the survey and record your views; it's what it's there for. And I hope this explanation makes sense.

Done

Thanks Sarah

Done

Yes we have problems in this country, and yes the Government needs to get that lot sorted too, but we can't sit here and say 'charity begins at home blah blah blah' BOTH problems need addressing. Why is it one or the other?

We let our Government get away with murder. Literally!

Every time I hear somebody voice a concern about us/our country in this situation, all I think is..... When we watch footage of WW2 and weep at the horror, or feel a sense of pride at our role in helping, then where the hell is that compassion now? When it's needed? Where is that Blitz mentality that makes us all want to rally together and help each other/do whatever it takes?

We live in such a selfish age, and none of us would be here if it wasn't for the suffering of generations before us. What have any of you naysayers done to deserve the right to a life of ignorance?

AGREED, it all needs sorting. Home and worldwide, but it all has to start somewhere. Every bit of positive action plays it's part in improving things. Let's give our children a better world to grow up in!

[Disclaimer: all capitals are for emphasis and a little bit of passionate voice raising, not aggression ]

I don't think that inviting more refugees to come to the UK (or anywhere else in Europe for that matter), will solve this crisis. In fact, I think Germany's offer has added massive fuel to it and is encouraging ever more people to risk their lives both on the Mediterranean and on the roads leading to Germany. It has also played into the hands of people smugglers, who seek to profit from the situation, and caused chaos across Europe.

I was as appalled as anyone to see that poor dead boy's body lying on the shore in Bodrum. I am baffled though at his parents motivation in choosing to put him and his brother on that boat to make the 3-mile crossing from one safe European country (Turkey) to another (Greece). That same journey could have been made by road with considerably less risk involved or they could also have purchased life jackets, which would almost certainly have saved the lives of the mother and the two children.

I just feel there is a lot of knee-jerk hysteria going on and that the media loves to whip people up with emotive images. Britain IS helping already (we've had a war ship in the Med for months which is searching for and rescuing people), and we've taken 5000 Syrians since 2011, so its not like we're refusing to play our part.

Aylan's family were refused asylum in Canada. And here in Canada my FB is full of my Canadian friends shocked and disgusted at their government's role in this. Hopefully, when we get a new government here in October, they won't be a bunch of fuckers like Harper's government is.

I'm a migrant; a lucky, white, privileged, English-speaking one. My little DD will grow up with two privileged nationalities and I hope that means she will never have to make the choices Aylan and Galip's family did.

But that's the thing; it's luck. Not politics or hard work or anything like that. It's luck.

done

X post btw!

Trying to cook dinner and post!

I think that we need to stick to the Dublin agreement, with extra-Schengen countries taking a full part.

Clearly, the crisis in Hungary is too much for one country to handle. Therefore, I think that other member countries should set up posts in Budapest to assist with the processing and to document the refugees.

There is a lot of politicking coming from Germany. They are happy to take get first dibs on 800,000 Syrians, who are highly educated with many having professional qualifications. They are strangely silent on any obligation to take in Africans and believe in opening the Channel Tunnel to them.

If each member state had a reception point in the main landing countries, then everyone could accept a fair cross section of the migrant population.

Atticus - 'many people feel many people are economic migrants'

Well none of us actually has any proof of that do we? Because we only have what the media shows us, and, a bit like your point, there are many people who believe that info (97% male/economic migrants) isn't actually all that accurate either!

But the bottom line, and the only thing really relevant to this thread/campaign is that what we definitely HAVE seen, is how there are thousands suffering and in need. Babies and children dying on our doorstep, and this we as parents (not members of whatever political party) feel strongly enough about, to want to help.

That's all we're saying. Let's help. Let's feed them, clothe them, give them sanctuary.

The long term details can be sorted out by the people we're paying to do so.

And what Feta said.