Should MN support a BPAS call for non-protest 'buffer zones' outside abortion clinics? Tell MNHQ what you think

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello all

We've been contacted by the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, who want to know whether Mumsnet can support a call they're going to make for buffer zones around abortion clinics - and as ever we'd like to run it past MNers to see what you think.

Here's what BPAS say:

'Over recent years there has been an escalation in anti-abortion activity outside clinics in the UK. Women attending pregnancy advice and abortion centres are now regularly exposed to groups of anti-abortion activists standing directly outside. Many of these protesters bear large banners of dismembered foetuses, distribute leaflets containing misleading information about abortion, and follow and question women as they enter or leave the centres. Often, these people carry cameras strapped to their chests or positioned on a tripod. Women report feeling intimidated and distressed by this activity as they try to access a lawful healthcare service in confidence. Pregnant staff at clinics have on occasion needed escorting from the building by the police. Recently, NHS staff on premises where a clinic is located have felt so intimidated by the presence outside they have asked for the abortion service to be withdrawn. The closure of a service as a result of anti-abortion activity would be unprecedented.'

'We believe enough is enough.'

'One in three women will have an abortion in her lifetime. We are a society which values freedom of speech, but also one where the vast majority of us support a woman’s access to abortion services. The right to protest needs to be balanced with the right of pregnant women to obtain advice and treatment in confidence and free from intimidation. For those who wish to campaign to restrict women’s reproductive choices, there are plenty of opportunities and locations in which to do so. The space immediately outside a clinic need not and should not not be one of them.'

'Women should feel confident that they can approach centres for advice and services without fear of intimidation, or anxious that their identity will be compromised by protesters filming outside. Establishing access zones free from anti-abortion activists around clinics would provide the reassurance and security women need. We urge all political parties to act to protect women as they make their own personal decision about their pregnancy. Women deserve nothing less.'

We know MNers tend to feel fairly strongly about abortion and that there are views on both sides of this debate - so do please let us know what you think.

Thanks

MNHQ

You know the marvellous thing about prayer? The location in which you do it does not matter in the slightest. They could pray in a shopping centre, a church, their home, outside the Houses of Parliament.

Quiet prayer and contemplation is not why these people are outside clinics.

What 'facts' would a woman not know? All she needs is to no longer be pregnant. She is there for a SToP. She's not carrying a baby, it is a foetus and in most cases of SToP it's still an embryo.

They can still stand quietly, but they don't need to be close to the clinic and they don't need disgusting and in most cases, fake, photos to do their silent praying.

Oh and those people for whom a SToP is wrong don't need to have one. They just need to keep their noses out of the business of the people that do.

If you are surprised Mn is anti forced birth, you can't have been here long.

Janimoso which medical facts do you think women are unaware of when they make the decision to have an abortion?

And why are surprised to find MN supporting this campaign? There are lots of MNers who are pro-choice (maybe the majority - I don't know) and as some MNers on this post have explained, even though they wouldn't ever have an abortion themselves they cannot support the actions of those who stand outside clinics harassing women.

I think, more pertinently, you'd be very surprised if Mumsnet and Mumsnetters didn't support the right of other women not to be harassed and intimidated. Surely, Janimoso?

murder
baby
death sentence

are those the kind of 'facts' you think they need to be told?

To get this back on track - I would support this. (I also think it is ok for Janimoso to disagree even if I don't like their argument).

I have no issue with disagreement either. But one should try to do so accurately, no?

essentially, like it or not, that post accuses a load of women on here of being 'baby' murderers.

now we have a legal and factual context in this country of knowing that a) embryos are not babies and b) abortion is not murder.

if people don't like that they should either appeal against lawmakers and scientists to try and get the situation changed or consider a move to a country that agrees with them and doesn't allow women control over their own bodies. what they don't get to do is harass law abiding citizens calling them murderers and presenting false and emotive material to people trying to access medical treatment.

maybe life would be a lot simpler if all the fundamentalists went and lived together in a society that supported their views and pleased their aesthetic moral standards.

the rest of us could be left to live in a world that supported female human rights full stop and an equality act that applied to every organisation and employer in the country rather than had to give fundamentalists special get out clauses to allow them to continue being sexist, homophobic and otherwise discriminatory in their policies and practices.

we could get on with moving forward with human rights and equality and non divisive living and they could live as regressively as they pleased with as much prejudice and discrimination as they liked without anyone who didn't agree with it being subjected to it.

maybe we could have a hemisphere each? all the fundamentalists on one side could fight it out amongst themselves and the rest of us would be free to progress unhindered.

YAY another vote for The HoneyBadger Right on woman, all power to you !!!!!!!

we get the southern hemisphere though right? we get the hammocks, cocktails and sunshine. they get the snow, cold and fetus worship.

we also get all the modern inventions, drug, gin, music, video games and the internet. they get the beheadings, public floggings, sackcloth, rape apologists and self righteousness.

sorry i'm quite enjoying myself now.

Yes I agree.

TheHoneyBadger Don't forget hypocrisy, stonings for adultery and fornication, misogyny…….

Pretty shit though HB because girls would still have to grow up in that northern hemisphere society you propose and it would be a miserable existence.

Oh wait - they already do.

I'm afraid you are ignoring the facts. an embryo IS human it's not going to come out as a penguin, it is human cells, growing a human being and to stop it's heart beating is to kill him/her. Termination means to end, to end the process which has already begun, a human life. These are the facts my friends, I don't support violence be it protestors or abortionists. I am equally entitled to my opinion, am I not? Our poor innocent children, they don't stand a chance and what's worse, they can't speak up for themselves. The one place in the world where one should be safe is within his/her mother's womb. This is a very large subject with many facets, circumstances and opinions. I was asked the question do I support this and I don't. I don't want to make enemies within the group I don't think badly upon anyone who has been in this situation and has chosen abortion. The fundamental truth can never be changed no matter what language you use to dress it up or de humanise it. I have left my comment and will not comment again, but thank you for taking the time to read x

I respect your right to oppose abortion (though I don't agree with it). But those aren't 'facts'. Those are facts deeply coloured by opinion. Language isn't neutral. Your language is about conveying your belief (which in a democracy you are entitled to). You are also finessing that language - in your first post you talked about a baby. Now you are talking about a human embryo. Those aren't synonyms.

I respect the right of those who wish to oppose abortion. Because it is a democracy, and people get to protest if they don't agree with things. Even if I think those things are self evidently central to our society, you get the right to disagree. I don't support the right to do so on the doorstep of a clinic to scare and intimidate vulnerable women.

Guardian newspaper infographic

Making abortion illegal is correlated with extremely high maternal mortality rates. Other studies by the WHO (haven't got time to dig them out) show that abortion rates are the same if not higher in countries where abortion is illegal. It's just that the resulting abortions are also unsafe. The things that seem to bring abortion rates down are readily available, cheap (ideally free at point of delivery) contraception and good sex education.

Harassing women going to clinics is not a good way to bring abortion rates down, so not only is it inhumane and horrible behaviour, it is, frankly, counterproductive even if you do believe abortion is morally wrong.

Janimoso - what part of the world do you live in?

By the way. FWIW. I have walked past the protestors. They are not standing quietly praying.

Absolutely. These people feel they have a right to bully women whose lives and personal circumstances they know nothing about. I am pleased they are so perfect that they've never needed to make a tough choice where neither option is a good outcome. But they need to take their patronising self righteousness away from vulnerable patients.

Absolutely 1000% !!