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Mumsnet campaigns

Mumsnet campaign on rape and sexual violence

168 replies

KatieMumsnet · 20/02/2012 16:12

Hiya

Following on from lots of discussions and requests for a MN campaign on this - we've been putting a bit of thought into how we can help and are planning on making getting a campaign going in mid March. Before this we'll get on with a survey, asking for Mumsnetters experiences, and working on a press release to raise the profile of the campaign - and hopefully tackling a few myths.

KateMumsnet's been collaborating with Rape Crisis and the End Violence Against Women coalition, and we're hoping to host a webchat during the course of the week.

Before we start finalising detail though, we really need your help.

  1. The title of the campaign - 'I believe you' - I know was really strongly supported on here (and is popular with us too). But after a bit of discussion in the office, we were wondering if 'we believe you' is more effective - showing the collective effect of our campaign, and emphasising that we're not just lone voices supporting individuals? It would be good to have your thoughts.


  1. Dispelling myths. What are the 5 most important myths to dispel (rape is usually by a stranger, victims are usually to blame) - suggestions really appreciated - we'll then source the best facts to prove them wrong.


And as ever - do let us know any other thoughts.

MNHQ
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BasilRathbone · 21/02/2012 21:39

Look what I found:

www.teenboundaries.co.uk/

This charity looks like it's doing something useful in this field...

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Quodlibet · 21/02/2012 21:52

The (normal) majority of non-raping men have a responsibility to be vigilant and to make sure that rape is absolutely not acceptable in male spheres. I don't know how we (as women) encourage the change in male spheres apart from talking to our sons?

From this excellent blog post, Meet the predators which looks at statistics that show that rape is committed by a minority of men who do it again and again because they can and do get away with it:


"I?m directing this to men who inhabit het-identified social spaces, and I?m not really limiting it more than that. Women are already doing what they can to prevent rape; brokering a peace with the fear is part of their lives that we can never fully understand. We?re the ones who are not doing our jobs.

Here?s what we need to do. We need to spot the rapists, and we need to shut down the social structures that give them a license to operate. They are in the population, among us. They have an average of six victims, women that they know, and therefore likely some women you know. They use force sometimes, but mostly they use intoxicants. They don?t accidentally end up in a room with a woman too drunk or high to consent or resist; they plan on getting there and that?s where they end up.

Listen. The women you know will tell you when the men they thought they could trust assaulted them; if and only if they know you won?t stonewall, deny, blame or judge. Let them tell you that they got drunk, and woke up with your buddy on top of them. Listen. Don?t defend that guy. That guy is more likely than not a recidivist. He has probably done it before. He will probably do it again...

To rape again and again, these men need silence. They need to know that the right combination of factors ? alcohol and sex shame, mostly ? will keep their victims quiet. Otherwise, they would be identified earlier and have a harder time finding victims. The women in your life need to be able to talk frankly about sexual assault. They need to be able to tell you, and they need to know that they can tell you, and not be stonewalled, denied, blamed or judged.

Listen. The men in your lives will tell you what they do. As long as the R word doesn?t get attached, rapists do self-report. The guy who says he sees a woman too drunk to know where she is as an opportunity is not joking. He?s telling you how he sees it. The guy who says, ?bros before hos?, is asking you to make a pact....

Change the culture.... if we are going to put a dent in the prevalence of rape, we need to change the environment that the rapist operates in. Choose not to be part of a rape-supportive environment. Rape jokes are not jokes. Woman-hating jokes are not jokes. These guys are telling you what they think. When you laugh along to get their approval, you give them yours. You tell them that the social license to operate is in force; that you?ll go along with the pact to turn your eyes away from the evidence; to make excuses for them; to assume it?s a mistake, of the first time, or a confusing situation. You?re telling them that they?re at low risk."

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handmedownqueen · 22/02/2012 00:16

as someone who works in this area and has an extensive knowlegde of the variety of female complainanrs of rape ..............well as a mum of teenage boys I worry about their vulnerabilty to get it wrong
to not know what is normal due to the availabilty of porn. how to approach a girl sexually
to have to navigate a culture where young women drink excessively, wear very little and give out mixed signals
so yes support any campaign on boundaries and education for boys and girls but please remember that otherwise nice young men can get mixed up and have their futures ruined

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neepsntatties · 22/02/2012 04:44

What a girl is wearing or has been drinking is irrelevant to whether she is consenting or not. If your son is not sure if a girl is consenting then he shouldn't have sex with her.

This idea of mixed messages is another issue that needs to be tackled. If someone really isn't sure what a person wants then they can ask, it's not a go ahead for sex. If they don't want to ask then they shouldn't be having sex anyway. Maybe we need some type of 'Consent, be sure' slogan.

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neepsntatties · 22/02/2012 05:07

Maybe a consent, be sure type slogan could go with a 'what consent looks luke' poster campaign. Images of girls doing various things, drinking, wearing a short skirt etc then one of a girl saying yes with the idea being only the last one is consent.

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MmeLindor. · 22/02/2012 06:59

Good idea, Neeps. I agree. I worry more about my dd being raped than I do about my son being falsely accused of rape.

I have written blog post (wasn't able to sleep so wrote it at 2am) so if MNHQ are happy for me to coordinate blogger campaign, will do so.

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neepsntatties · 22/02/2012 07:02

Also a move to yes means yes rather than no means no.

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MmeLindor. · 22/02/2012 07:09

One idea for the blog hop would be to give women an anonymous platform to tell their story. We could organise a few bloggers who were willing to do a We Believe post.

Each post could start with title 'We Believe [poster's name]

Eg 'We Believe Cathy'
'We Believe Rebecca'

...

What do you think?

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StewieGriffinsMom · 22/02/2012 07:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Finallyfinally · 22/02/2012 08:57

Handmedownqueen I don't really understand what you're saying. Surely it's easy to teach your boys that they might like the look of a girl in a short skirt but it doesn't mean she put it on in order to have sex? And that if she's out of it drunk, she can't consent? And if she says no, it means no?

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tralalala · 22/02/2012 09:24

handmedown 'nice young boys' do not continue having sex with someone againsts their wishes.

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KatieMumsnet · 22/02/2012 09:25

Hi Everyone

Thanks so much for your thoughts and enthusiasm - really good to know we're going in the right direction, and great we now have a title - 'we believe you', that we can also use as #webelieveyou on twitter.

We'll now go through the myth suggestions on here and pull together the most powerful 5(ish) with the best stats to support our argument/ challenge the myths. This will be a big part of the press release (alongside the survey results).

On the survey we hope it will be live later today(ish) - we've developed it thinking about the language very carefully, using many of the discussion threads as pointers, and after consultation with Rape crisis and EVAW. We've been very conscious as we've developed it, how important it is to get right - but are cautiously hopeful we have.

On the moderation of discussion on the site, we absolutely do not tolerate victim-blaming posts, eg "well, she was asking for it" or "you were drunk, what do you expect" - and we will delete them, as soon as we are made aware of them, with no debate, discussion or mitigating pleas.

We wont though, delete posts that form part of a reasonable and valid discussion, even if those posts are made in ignorance. So, if someone we believed to be a genuine poster came onto a thread and said, "But I thought most rapists were strangers", we would rather let it stand and allow others to correct that particular rape myth on the thread, thereby educating others in the process. 

We completely understand where you are coming from on this but we've always thought it's wrong to adopt a policy of blanket censorship (though it might be easier to implement!) Instead, we feel it's wiser to judge each post that's reported on its individual words and context, and make decisions on a post-by-post basis.
 
And finally on blogging - yes the Mumsnet bloggers network will be asking bloggers to come forward, blog, blog hop and do anything else they can to get involved - the more the merrier!

Thanks again for helping us get this far - your support is really vital in making this a success

Best

MNHQ

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dreamingbohemian · 22/02/2012 09:29

In talking about the myths, though, I think it's important to think about why some people believe them.

I think a lot of people live in fear of violence happening to them or their loved ones, and control this fear by thinking if they follow certain rules then nothing will happen to them. Hence all the 'it's her own fault' myths.

I'm not sure these people will be swayed by an anti-myths campaign, because then they will not have a way to cope with those fears. Let's face it, 'anyone can rape you at any time' may be truthful but it's very frightening.

These are the people who sit on juries and acquit rapists. They need to be reached. How can we challenge the myths while not scaring them off?

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JosephineB · 22/02/2012 10:57

In talking about the myths, though, I think it's important to think about why some people believe them.

Here's one reason (from an analysis of 4 broadsheets and 4 tabloid newspapers throughout 2008, compared with data from the British Crime Survey):

%age of stories where the rape ended with a conviction:

Tabloid: 55%
Broadsheet: 30%
British Crime Survey: 5.7%

%age of stories where the attacker was a known man:

Tabloid: 4%
Broadsheet: 5%
British Crime Survey: 92%

%age of stories where the attacker was a current or former partner:

Tabloid: 0%
Broadsheet: 0%
British Crime Survey: 56%

%age of stories where the attack took place in public

Tabloid: 51%
Broadsheet: 27.5%
British Crime Survey: 13%

%age of stories where the attacker was a stranger:

Tabloid: 63%
Broadsheet: 28%
British Crime Survey: 11%

%age of stories involving a false allegation:

Tabloid: 10.2%
Broadsheet: 7.5%
British Crime Survey: 3%

If people don't know anyone personally who has been raped where else are they getting their information from but the media? And the above data shows where the rape myths come from and how they are continually reinforced. I think this is an issue that the Leveson Inquiry - supposedly about media ethics - should be addressing.

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caramelwaffle · 22/02/2012 11:09

A problem that is currently being reported:

that because a girl "looks older than she is" she 'was complicit' in her rape (or, 'not really raped at all')

The focus should be on 'Men - don't rape' IMO.

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Kveta · 22/02/2012 11:14

Shock josephineB that's quite terrifying! no wonder the general public haven't a clue!

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Pozzled · 22/02/2012 12:31

Thinking more about the consent issue, and handmedownqueen's post above, could we include something about consent being active, not passive. There shouldn't be any of this 'mixed messages' and 'nice men getting mixed up' because if the woman isn't actively participating or actively giving verbal encouragement, then the man should wait and check for consent. The message needs to be out there that asking 'Is this ok?' or similar doesn't make you any less macho or less of a real man.

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OliverTwit · 22/02/2012 13:15

Just adding my support, I have a BIL who is in the police who says they get a lot of false accusations and that once the women/girls have sobered up they change their minds.
I wonder why eh?
Thanks to some of the threads here on MN I was able to confidently challenge him. (I'm a bit crap at confrontation TBH)

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BasilRathbone · 22/02/2012 16:45

JosephineB that analysis is really eye opening. Where does it come from?

Something else occurred to me - one of the most powerful myths, is that most rape allegations are false.

We know that most of them are true. We also know, that the vast, vast majority of rapes, are never even reported. So the situation most people believe is the truth - that there are thousands of women out there saying that they've been raped when they haven't - is the exact opposite of the truth - that there are thousands of women out there, who've been raped, who never say it out loud. Most people are more worried about the anthill of false allegations, than the Everest of non-reported rapes. Can we mention that one, because that's a really big reversal of reality in most people's minds?

Josphine B's post made that occur to me when she said if people don't know anyone who has been raped - thing is, most of us do know someone who has been raped, if you know 9 women, then statistically you know someone who has been raped, if you know 18, you know 2 rape victims, if you know 27 women, you know 3 rape victims, etc. - it's just that they'll never tell us, because they are part of that mountain.

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Zhx3 · 22/02/2012 19:48

Marking my place. Really pleased to see this happening.

The presence of alcohol presents a real double standard - in that if a woman has been drinking then the myth says she must take some of the blame. I remember letting a drunken friend into my house, and he tried it on. Although nothing happened, I was later told that if it had, I should shoulder some of the blame as I had known that he had been drinking Hmm.

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LineRunner · 22/02/2012 19:59

I have just done the MN survey and it really brought home to me how many times I have been sexually assaulted - and how many times this was actually witnessed by people but dismissed - it's almost as though if people are there to see it, then it can't really matter, can it?

So the lecturer who threw me against the wall at a party and grabbed my tits was 'just a bit pissed'; the two men in the works' outing van who indecently assaulted me when I was 15 'were having a bit of fun'; and the guy who grabbed me violently from behind in a public place 'couldn't really have done anything much more, could he?'

The very fact there were witnesses should have strengthened my voice; but yet it diminished it.

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LineRunner · 22/02/2012 20:01

I also hate the 'What were you doing out at Something O'Clock?' argument.

Do we just hand over our public spaces to rapists when it gets dark, then?

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runningforthebusinheels · 22/02/2012 22:09

I am going to do the survey in a minute, I've been building up to it because, while it's not nearly as serious as some people's stories on here, I do still find it upsetting. Reading MN has really helped me come to terms with it. It happened when I was at University and I blamed myself for years. Sad

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JosephineB · 23/02/2012 08:23

@ Basil: It's from a research study done by an organisation called AVA

It isn't on their website yet but copies have been circulating around the women's sector.

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slug · 23/02/2012 10:32

I'm all for the Golda Mier solution....a curfew for men. Wink

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