Lads' mags in children's sight: the game is ON!

[RowanMumsnet]

After canvassing your views, we're extending Let Girls Be Girls to cover the issue of lads' mags on display where children can see them in newsagents, supermarkets, stationers and petrol stations. Have a look at our press release and survey results here. We're contacting all the major retailers to ask them to sign up, and will keep you posted about how that goes. If you'd like to cull some copy from the press release to compose your own letter to your local independent newsagent, please feel free, and post here to let us know what you've done.

Some of the retailers have asked us for examples of individual stores that are presenting problems, so if you've seen material inappropriately displayed in a specific branch, again, please post here and we'll pass the information on.

Cheers,

MNHQ

*carefully placed-correction

Glad you have revised your views, and while I agree that banning TVs from bedrooms is unlikely to be workable, if there are programmes such as have already been shown on BBC Three, Channel 4, Five, aimed at adults, and well past the 9pm 'watershed' then how do parents ensure there is no viewing (or recording) of them?

Whether the content is sexual in nature (educational, or documentary) it is only a subset of what one may want youngsters not to watch. Last night an Arnie movie was on, about some sci-fi plasma firing rifle. Killings and bad language went on throughout, as with many 'action movies', and it would escape any anti-porn filter, yet still be undesirable viewing for a 15yo (OK, they may have already seen such films and use bad language but one might not encourage viewing, after all).

By the way, I am totally in agreement with your comment (18:37) on lads' mags and so-called newspapers but don't see censoring as the main method of educating youngsters about why parents prefer (/insist) they do not view 'inappropriate' material whether on TV, internet or in magazines/ papers.

"im 26 and can't leave the house without i.d."

One does not generally need to carry any ID, in the UK, at resent, or there would have been nothing for protestors against National ID cards to object about.

I'm still too young for a free bus pass, here in Wales, and apart from a bank debit card (which I don't always carry), I have no other form of "ID" yet cope perfectly well.

I can assume many motorists carry their licence in case they are stopped, because the alterative is more hassle, and some might carry a photocopy of car insurance documents to speed up checks if there was ever a problem, but don't believe these are mandatory items one needs to carry.

So for your convenience, perhaps, you carry ID, but not for any other requirement, or have I got this wrong ?

(Of course, you might have another need to carry ID, such as being in the Police to be able to have authority to stop anyone, or for other types of job where some specific ID is needed for clearance to enter buildings or carry out certain tasks, but such ID is specialist to those careers, not a general requirement.)

The last couple of times Ive been in Tescos they still had the lad mags on display.

I am going to contact the manager but does anyone know what Tescos have actually agreed to do and why nothing seems to have changed yet?

Hi David - Tesco has said that it's 'rolling out' a policy across its stores; see its statement on this page. If you email [email protected] with the addresses of the stores you're concerned about, we'll see what we can find out for you.

Cheers,

MNHQ

Thanks for the link, and full details. I had been about to complain to local Somerfield (owned by Co-Op) but see that they plan to push this only from April, so I'd have been somewhat premature to condemn them (even though they may have already received complaints).

Would be good to see a voluntary code (or enforced by legislation) for opaque covers which would block any 'get out' statements such as that from the Newsagents bodies (acknowledge they cannot enforce what it's a law, but however they 'suggest' it seems their words fall on deaf ears, when a profit can be made from some smutty mags... and no doubt the petrol station shops are under yet another body, or bodies as some will be independent and others parts of big fuel chains).

i carry ID because i have to for cigarettes and alcohol. i have been stopped in the alcohol section in sainsburys and asked for ID for simply being in the alcohol section. in this country if you look 25 or under you will be ID'D for cigarettes and alcohol at any venue where you try to buy it or go into a pub or club especially on weekends. absolute fact. i am 26 but i look about 21 or possibly younger, i'm not complaining about it i'm just saying that people age 18+ in their 20's must carry ID for these reasons. i dont really understand what you're saying or what world you're living in because in my world i have to carry ID to buy a bottle of wine and am just used to it. i carry a learners driving licence even though i don't drive and would actually prefer a proper ID card, it may work out cheaper to do that as well.

not sure what is going on here as we've somehow gone totally off the point so i will bring it back to

all inappropriate adult material should be able to be censored and kept away from people not wishing to see it or from people who may view it too young and overall stricter rules need to be applied.

when it comes to films i think there needs to be clearer guidlines as well, more thought needs to be put into the age guide as i think some have it wrong, and it should be compulsary to describe the content in a film on the back of a dvd or on a tv guide, like where some say, sex scenes, bad language, drug use and violence ratings on the back.

i dont understand what you mean by already been shown? if a program was intended for adults then it should only be shown again after 9pm, and if someone records it then they have chosen to do so.

on sky-you can pin block all different age groups and choose what is available and then it will block you from being able to see content of that agegroup unless you enter a pin. i think it still works if you record something. so that is something helpful.

censoring isnt about educating, is about protecting. education is a seperate issue and i'm not saying block everything and never tell children about life! just be careful not to throw graphic scenes in their face too young and it would be good if there was more help and co-operation from society on that subject rather than making a parents job nearly impossible at the moment.

or what world you're living in because in my world i have to carry ID to buy a bottle of wine

Same world as you, but fortuntely/unfortunately I am somewhat older so don't have to prove I'm over 18 in the way you've been needing. Sainsbury's seems overly strict if they are asking for ID just for walking down an aisle. I assume they'd have a mini heart-attack if a mum walked down that aisle with a toddler either walking or on the seat of a trolley. Something to complain to the management at Sainsbury's about - a 'jobs-worth' going over zealous on checking IDs in my view.

"dont understand what you mean by already been shown?"

Merely to comment on material broadcast in recent months/ years. Such as 'Is oral sex safe' on BBC Three (recent) or various shows on C4, C5, which could be described as "explicit" in terms of language or visual content.

As for recording, what I was getting at was the possibility in some households for a digital box to be in a teenager's bedroom. With some teens being far more clued up than their parents (such as being able to pause a live broadcast if you have various Sky or other boxes), it is far from impossible that even if one of the 'house rules' is "in bed, lights out by 10:30pm" so a teenager could not watch something on BBC Three, C4 or C5 at 11pm. it's not that impossible to understand a teenager recording a show which is on late, and watching it atanother time.

So while 'dedicated' adult channels are not going to be freely viewable, with PINs to prevent viewing for example, the 'problem' is still out there, because how many parents would 'PIN-protect' a BBC channel, C4 or C5 (if it is even possible). (I don't have a Sky box and have not used one for maybe 10 years, though PIN-locking was available back then too.)

That's where a parent discussing material that is or is not acceptable seems more important to me than trying technological solutions to limit/ censor what is viewed, when so many non-adult channels can include scenes of violence, bad language, and yes, sexual material too, I see there being a responsibility for parents to do more, not less.

my local shop has loads of them as you walk in the front door. Its the local NISA STORE, SKINNER STEPS CUPAR, FIFE,KY15 AREA.

I feel disgusted that they display so many of these magazines and papers in the eye line of children. I dread when my kids ask me if they can get a magazine as these adult mags and papers are a couple of shelves up and the papers are at the bottom,its even more disturbing when you see young lads taking them of the shelves and having a look when young children are in the shop and can see what they are looking at.

For purely academic reasons I glanced at the 'lads mags' in our local Co-Op and saw far less flesh on show (instead of hands covering their chests, they were wearing bikinis).

i think parents could do more to protect their children if they worked hard at it, like if they had a sky box you can pin protect a fair amount of it, or just not give them the luxury of sky in their room!! up to parents on that one, my main concern and plea is that society/media helps out on this whole matter making it easier for parents to control the media they are being presented with and what they do and don't want to see, and i again go back to -cover up lads mags for a start.

i was quite shocked for instance, when outside a local garage the other day, there was the daily sport showing a front page picture of a naked woman bending over revealing her arse and there may have been a g-string but was so small and squashed up between her cheeks i couldnt make out any underwear, it was reddiculous and extremely graghic, and on the bottom of the shelves so anyone could see, like little todlers walking around. it does make me cringe, and i think i will have to complain privately about that garage myself.

i just don't think it should be in people's faces like that. and you never get a man bending over backwards in that position either! so it's also quite a sexist world we live in. however that would not make it better.
..............
lol at purely acedemic reasons, and yeah sometimes they do just wear bikinis, but its the provocative poses that is disturbing and giving out the sexual messages rather than what they are or are not wearing, but oftentimes they are wearing very little or just have little stars on their nipples or hands over chest, which is pathetic, you could hardly walk around the street like that because its indecent exposure and you would get arrested, yet they are in the publics view also and so therefore its indecent exposure also, and so should be covered like the rest of us have to. for example-i cant walk into a newsagents topless or in a thong, so i shouldn't be able to see others doing it, even if it is just images. in my opinion

SGM - statement from Tesco said "We are pleased with the success of this trial and are now rolling this out across all Tesco stores."

I'd not waste your energy on complaining just yet. It would be best for MNHQ to get some firm dates from the stores as to when we can expect every store in their chain to comply.

Not sure who in Government could push it, but would like to see the lads mags forced to use opaque covers (along with adult mags), so it would no longer be an excuse by newsagents or petrol station shops that it costs too much - if it was forced on the mag publishers to cover up, it would be every shelf, every shop large or small and WHSmith would have no say in it.

It could be asked of them as a voluntary measure and if they ignored it, put into legislation. The voluntary "higher shelf" approach which was reported on the BBC News web site some years back may hold good for some newsagents, but seems to be ignored by plenty too, and I'd favour pushing lads mags into a similar category as adult mags if it stops them being on open display (might even see them dropped by some larger stores - they could probably sell more fashion mags if they had shelf space).

would like to say something quite important in favour of this whole cover up lads mags, obviously most of you are in agreement anyway, but the thing that really gets me pissed off and has driven me for so long is simply this:

if one of the models from nuts/zoo/page 3 -the sun or the sport were to stand next to their image in the newsagents, in the same outfit and pose, they could well be arrested for indecent exposure. basically the model can't stand next to her own picture half naked in public! because of the law against public indecent exposure, therefore- these magazine must be covered up for inappropriateness and public indecent exposure, its the same law, this law should be used against the exposure of images that are indecent.

end of.

please support this and lets keep going on local stores .

claire king

"lol at purely acedemic reasons"
Yes, it was purely academic, but laugh all you want, I was being serious.

Anyway, happened by chance to see C4's "The Sex Education Show" (New Series) - the Tuesday broadcast was "Stop Pimping our Kids" and went on the attack at Primark and Matalan (and gave mention to Mumsnet in relation to the second store). I missed the first half of the show, but they did mention the next will include something about magazines and should be on tonight at 9pm.

I'm a publisher and a parent - both our magazines are frustratingly placed at below metre height in most major retailers. Having spent the last 18 years campaigning to have our gay lifestyle magazines removed from the top shelf adult section, because they are not exploitative or adult in content, we have been for the past five years tucked away at the bottom shelf instead. Some retailers have the sense to place us higher up out of the reach of children and not tarred us with the same brush as these lads mags. I'm keen to see tonight's Channel 4 program because it is an issue that affects me both personally (parent) and professionally(publisher beholdent to retail policies and practice)!

Popped into Asda superstore in town yesterday and saw they have FHM etc on top shelf in cardboard-fronted section which just has the magazine names on it. Only mag that "caught my eye" was a gay (male) mag with the slogan across the top of "Naked edition". Have to admit to not taking note of title to know where they are in the spectrum of gay men's mags but I'm fairly sure Asda does not stock 'porn' so must assume this was 'lifestyle'...

Was pleased to at least know the local Asda does use the top shelf and don't show covers blatantly, unlike some other shops.

Can quite understand your wish not to be tarred along with lads' mags, but how do you feel about the male gay mags? Are they intended to be more shocking or just not really covering 'lifestyle' when compared with yours, Diva?

Sorry to read of your many years frustration at being wrongly categorised, by the way.

So WH Smiths stand firm on their policy, despite being caught our in 1 out of about 500 stores. I'd like to know why the fully clad image of pre watershed's X-factor star Aidan Grimshaw on the cover of GT was seen as sexually suggestive?

I felt this program simply scratched at the surface of these issues and the mix of this strory sex education and moralising on sexual imagery in stores served only to deliver double standards in my opinion.

The issues around sexualised clothing aimed at young girls packs a much more effective punch.

Netywork Guy - many thanks. We have been through many stages of cover approval with the big supermarkets and yet at the same time encouraged to deliver bare-chested guys, naked and Sex issues as we are informed by our distributors these sell the best! In doing these themed issues we have to adhere to strict cover guidelines with WH Smiths and Tesco in particular leading on this. Our last Naked issue had a very tasteful waist up shot of a HollyOaks actor on the cover and we raised funds for THT with this issue. (Suspect it was Attitude's naked issue you saw in ASDA). I was outraged that last nights programme chose to tar us with the same brush with our Aidan/X Factor special issuePlus ca change! In the past we have asked to be positioned near Men's Health as our covers are no more explict than these, but this is not deemed acceptable and we are considered a category in between Men's Health and the Lads mags called "gay lifestyle". DIVA magazine has a whole other challenge in being lost in amongst the women's interest mags next to parenting, puzzles and ethic press. I believe our recent sex issue also caused some moral panic amongst Mumsnet users, despite adhering to content guidelines of the retailers. It is hoped that our body positive/real women issue will have had the reverse effect but I doubt that even got noticed!

"served only to deliver double standards in my opinion"

I think the issues are far more clear cut - in previous series on C4 there have been discussions concerning how teens are far more familiar with porn than most of their parents will admit to and as a result, the educational aspects of how to protect against STIs and pregnancy are pushed a bit harder, because not all will 'rebel against peer pressure' and some get dragged into activities they might not really feel ready for... or have picked up poor info from chats with friends, or simply misunderstood some aspects of protecting themselves.

while on the other hand, the anti-lads mags, suggestive clothing, seems to be a concern for many (and perhaps in particular, those with pre-teenage children, as young as 4 or 5, because those children will often be with a parent on shopping trips and therefore may be affected by indiscriminate shelf use for 'adult' and lads mags (at least in smaller shops or petrol stations, perhaps not so much in the larger chains, at least as far as 'adult' mags).

WH Smiths have a reputation for constantly getting it wrong. No better example than a recent copy approval matter for DIVA where we were not allowed to say Lesbians Do It Best on a shelf-talker and it was suggested we replace the L word with "Girls" !!!! Censorship without sensitivity and more likely to get customer complaints.

I fully get the point of C4's program, but as someone who has had to deal with the decisions and policies of WH Smiths for years, including the fact that their travel points and high street branches have different policies and central decision making/approval processes (something the programmers weren't aware of). Fact is WH Smith High Street are probably fully compliant but WH Smith travel probably aren't. Looks to me like CH4 got their quote from WH Smith High St and not their Travel HQ who govern station stores like the one in Euston!

Interesting about the split personality WHS policy making, and can see your frustration/ anger with the TV people as your experience with retailers gives you insight they will never get as theirs is a transitory interest...

i watched all three programs in the series and thought it was really good but maybe should have been seperated into 2 shows, one for sex education the other for parents. but it was good how it covered inapropriate childrens clothing, the inappropriate placement of lads mags in some stores still and music channels-which is another one of my major concerns, that last episode was horrible to watch thinking that alot of children would have seen those types of music videos, its disgusting. but u can put a lock on things like that on sky and things. i think music videos though, alot of them have just become porn, just another type of porn, great, no imagination in the video then and not everyone wants to see it. theyre not taking women, children and gay men into consideration, maybe not everyone wants the same things all the time and children should deff be protected from it all in all ways possible preferably.

i would advise anyone who missed the program-the sex education program with the stop pimping our kids campagne, to catch up on 4od when its available, it should be now. and they are doing a review of things at some point in the next series.