Lighter Later: 10:10 calls for UK to switch to Central European Time

[RowanMumsnet]

As some of you will know, 10:10 - along with some tourist and road safety organisations - is calling for the UK to make a permanent switch to Central European Time (GMT+2 in the summer, and GMT+1 in the winter). Some studies suggest that this would save on carbon emissions, reduce road deaths, provide a boost to tourism revenue, and increase general wellbeing by providing more opportunities for social activities and outdoor pursuits during the winter evenings.

In the past, opposition to this suggestion has focused on its impact on people in Scotland, but a recent report by the Policy Studies Institute argues that the move would be beneficial for Scotland overall.

On 3 December the Daylight Saving Bill will receive its second reading in Parliament. The bill calls for the government to conduct a cross-departmental cost-benefit analysis of the clock change. If the benefits are confirmed, it calls for a three-year trial to be enacted. Click here if you'd like to ask your MP to support the bill.

And as ever, do let us know your thoughts.

Scotland's devolved parliament can only deal with those aspects that have been formally devolved to it (such as education, health, justice) - other things are "retained" by Westminster (eg defence).

Not sure where "time" fits!

Scotland is not a non-issue when talking about the longitude which is what this boils down to.

Prettybird, next year's elections for the Scottish parliament could get quite surreal if 'time' is on the agenda

habbi that's what they do in the US. Several US States are split by various timezones and you just adjust as you go across. I know of several people who worked in one timezone and lived in a different one. Florida comes to mind as a State with at least 2, perhaps 3, timezones.

It would be just like doing business with any where with a different timezone. Use multiple clocks in the office!

Too small might be an argument. But it would also solve the 'but it's dark so early in Scotland' issue.

BTW I'm in Belfast (not sure I said) and we are also fairly north! Gets dark around 4, I'd say, in deepest winter. We deal just fine. There's this thing we have called electricity. Maybe England and Scotland could get some of that?

Tee2072 -link illustrates half of Scotland unlit at night.

Actually what about Northern Ireland? Would they be on UK time or on the Republic's time? Regardless, it would be difficult for them to have to deal with a time zone change. And yes, it happens in North America but it does add a lot of complexity (just look at how confused this idea has made many people on this thread).

Well, saorachd it says it's a 'false cover image' and it's about 5 years old. So perhaps no exactly accurate?

Abdnhiker I would assume NI would stay with the rest of the UK. We are a part of the UK after all!

it's false colour as in not real the real colour. not a false image.

Oops, yes, colour. Not cover.

It's still 5 years old, though.

Tee - I doubt it's changed much - the bits that aren't coloured in on there are still largely unpopulated - they have a few big mountains and lots of wilderness and stuff up there

I think little has changed in five years.

No urban sprawl round Ardnamurchan or Scoraig.
No room for them with all the windfarms generating energy for export.

oh do piss off.

- that wasn't at me was it Awitch???

lol, no, at tee. who thinks that children who live in the highlands don't count.

phew

\link{http://www.scotland.org/facts/population\rather a crude map} with little detail - but shows general population density for Scotland

actually, now i realise yes (although i thought you were tee speaking), but i see that i am confused about your point in any case. so i hereby revoke my 'do piss off' because i no longer know who i am talking to or what i am talking about.

my point is that the 5yr old map of half of Scotland unlit is almost certainly accurate as little has changed in terms of population density.

And WTF do you mean you don't know who you're talking to, I know I 'aint "heavy" or "royalty" but you know me!!!!

I'm saving my 'do piss off'and 'as if' for Cameron as the consensus of this thread appears to have the yesses in London and no anywhere north of London.

On 21st December (when the kids are generally still at school)

Canterbury: 0800
Stornoway: 0915

If we implement this across Scotland, the sun won't rise in Stornoway until 1015... which is WELL after the kids go to school. In Aberdeen it would be 0949 and in Carlisle it'd be 0937.

From a safety aspect... lots of people are travelling at that time in the morning, and I think it's silly to have them travel in even more darkness than they travel in at the moment.

Here is a quote from the parliamentary debate in 1970 with relation to the road casualty figures over the period when BST was retained as a trial. The discussion was very lengthy and the reading is interesting:
"There is the further point about danger to children which is very much in the minds of hon. Members on both sides of the House. It is difficult to produce any convincing figures one way or the other. There has been a surprising and sad increase in the number of child casualties between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m. which is not wholly explained and rather bedevils the figures on this point. I honestly should not like to try to advise the House one way or the other. I do not think that the figures could prove that the increase in casualties in the morning is not more than balanced by the decrease in casualties in the afternoon. The figures are not clear enough to base a decision upon. I think that we should assume one way or the other that there is not a large margin either way."
The link can be found here

Because the further North we are, the shorter our shortest day and the longer our longest day, as we get nearer to the shortest day the difference in sunrise times between northern Scotland and southern England becomes more pronounced. If sunrise is currently 32 minutes later in Thurso than in London, by the middle of December it will be 1 hour and 4 minutes later.

Also, for clarity: The Scotland Act 1998 (1998 c. 46) established a devolved parliament for Scotland, but regulation of time zones and Summer Time is reserved to Westminster.

I think this is something that would work well for the South of England, but I'm not sure that it's suitable for Scotland, or in fact the North of England.

When did I say they don't count?!?

Ya know what? I give up.

It's a daft idea and that's all there is to say about it, really.

Great post SaorAlba.

Leaving aside the children for a moment, the campaign argues that more people are using electricity and travelling on the roads in the afternoon than in the morning therefore an extra hours' daylight in the afternoon rather than in the morning would benefit more people, reduce accidents, electriciy usage etc.

But the point about children's safety is important. If we enacted this, i think school hours would have to change to suit the daylight hours in the local area. It would be daft to have children travelling to school in the dark if they could travel in the daylight.

The bill calls for a 3-year trial to assess the impact, not an immediate switch.

Yes, great post saoralba. I can't help feeling that if the supposed advantage is that children will be able to play outdoors for longer (though, call me cynical, but I strongly suspect that this is not any politician's main agenda...), then they'd still be coming home in the dark after that, and therefore would still be in danger from all those dopey drivers who apparently find it more difficult to concentrate in the afternoons.

I'm actually confused by the electricity-saving argument - can anyone explain it to me? Why do we use less elec in the mornings, and how would this change for the better by making it darker? Aren't we supposed to be using less elec rather than more ?

I don't understand how they'd be using less electricity.

If it's still dark in your office when you arrive at 9am - you'll switch the light on won't you?

Just like if it gets dark before you leave at 5pm at the moment.......you switch the lights on

So you're really just switching electricy usage from one end of the day to the other

Yes, we're not actually going to be staying in bed until 10am (well, not most of us anyway).

Tbh, the quality of the light for most of the day during the winter is such that the lights tend to be on in most places unless you've got big windows and small rooms.