Struggling with older sibling of twins

[Iwanttowantto]

Anyone else?

2 year age gap. First 6 months were fine when the twins were babies. Past year has been awful. Hitting, pushing, latest is repeatedly spitting at me in a very insolent way, particularly when a boundary is given.

I'm at my wits end. My temper is fraying and I don't know what to do anymore. Time outs don't work. Consequences (no pudding, no tv) don't work.

toddler goes to nursery but not full time. Twins have a nanny. We both work. All the time around work, and particularly when I'm on my own with all 3 are the absolute pits. Nanny also struggles with the wrap around hours when she is in some charge.

thinking of upping the nursery hours, I know it's a cry for attention but the rest of us also matter and have a right to be safe and respected in our home!!!

I am the eldest with younger twin siblings we are 20 months apart. I was a nightmare the whole time we were growing up and couldn't stand them. It got better once we were in our 30s and now much older still all get on really well.

I have no idea what would have helped but probably getting praise for being tolerant could have done. A visitor once observed how tolerant I was of them (completely untrue I probably just hadn't noticed they were trying to annoy me), but my parents just laughed and implied I never was (true). Had they sought to praise it when I did it inadvertently they lost an opportunity for me to think that earned me praise. Praise for being responsible works well on the eldest, but is less important to those lower down the birth order. That said my parents were great and did nothing wrong, so don't think it is you.

@Sandy8765 . Really not helpful to say that to someone trying to pour from an empty cup. The OP reads as desperately trying to do right by all three of her children - protect the little ones and meet the older one's needs as best she can.

Safe and respected by a two year old!!! Studies show empathy doesn't even start to show itself until 2 and can take up to the age of 6 to grasp even minimally, if you know it’s a cry for attention then reduce your work hours and spend some time with your children they won’t be this small for long! Before anyone states the obvious I know it’s not as simple as that and money and bla bla bla but you could make cut backs at work which would mean you wouldn’t need to spend as much on a nanny and nursery

This is a great idea. It will give you time to work on the behaviours while preventing more of what you don’t want to see while giving both sets of kids a safe area of their own.

Do you think the fact the older goes to nursery and the others have a nanny (maybe at home) is the main cause? Older ones feels like they are being sent away? So more time away will make it worse?

This sounds a bit out there but worth a try.

• write a list of everything you like about your older child - perhaps you're finding it hard to think of things right now, maybe have a look through holiday photos or baby memories. Maybe they have a nice laugh, lovely hair - whatever you can think of.

• take a picture of your hand and theirs comparing the size difference - I set this as my phone wallpaper at a particularly challenging time. A visual reminder that they are still so little, their brains are still developing, and to tailor our expectations of them accordingly.

Yes, neither of these things are going to change their behaviour, but they can help with your perception of them and consequently mange your reactions.

I also thought this. Why nursery for the toddler but a nanny for the younger ones? Toddler may feel he is missing out on something and being sent away

I don't have twins, but do have a 27m age gap between my DS and its rough. The first few months were fine but as baby got mobile and toddler got to 3yo it was a nightmare. I do think what you're describing sounds like normal toddler behaviour, we breezed through the terrible twos but he became really difficult to deal with at 3, meltdowns, lashing out etc, he's just turned 4 and has entered the lying phase, everything is his little brothers fault, this morning he unclipped his own carseat, and told me his (strapped into a carseat and unable to reach) little brother did it.
As others have said, I found praising good behaviour and ignoring bad with older child helped, unless things were unsafe in which case I removed myself and baby from the room, repeatedly turning my back on toddler and walking away until "he could find his kind hands". I also found including him with lots of "you're so good at this, he doesn't understand xyz please help me teach him" worked well but ultimately it was a horrible phase and whilst things aren't perfect now, the phase did pass. I found lots of toddler groups helped, somehow things were magnified when we stayed in the house. I know you said your HV is rubbish but do you have a homestart near you, or our local children's centre do playgroups specifically for families struggling with behaviour / multiple toddler etc HV doesn't run them but do manage referrals so may be worth an ask. From these groups we met a few twins - there may be a twin group in your area too. It's hard to not blame yourself / wonder if your child is possessed 🤣 but they are at 2 very different stages with different needs and each child needs more than 1 person can easily give, especially on not enough sleep. I also let my standards drop a lot (e.g. I took baby's clothes with me and dressed him at morning playgroup while toddler was playing) and hired a cleaner, used screen time for points of the day they usually ended in conflict etc. Basically it's survival until they are a bit more independent.

Agreed. We shut off the dining room with a stairgate, older toddler has his "special things" in that room (stuff that's unsafe for 19mo) and that he doesn't want to risk being broken and he can play with stickers, playdoh etc in peace from marauding little. There's "baby stuff" in our kitchen to try to keep little toddler entertained and I can keep an eye on both of them. It's not perfect as they both still want me to play with them but it helps

These are such lovely tips. I hope they help you OP.

A couple of things that stood out for me are:

1. You say it makes your blood boil. Could you have PND? Anger can be a symptom. Although obviously you have a lot to contend with and anger isn't always PND. I just think it's worth thinking about and whether you need some support for it? My "D"M was a very angry Mum so perhaps I'm just a bit more sensitive to it. Can I ask how the birth was with DC1 too, was it traumatic at all?

1. You suspect that DC1 is ND and may be masking at Nursery. I would call the HV today and say that you need a meeting with her in early January to assess DC1 as you think he may need ND.

I would print off and fill in the 42 months ages and stages and also the Social & Emotional Ages and Stages and ask your HV to score them.

How's his speech and understanding? I found that once that improved their behaviour improved. You can check he's on track here. If it says "you answered no to some important questions" book an appointment with Talking Point and ask your HV for a hearing test referral and a referral to SLT.

123 Magic had already been mentioned, I don't know if you've tried that already? I'd start with that book and if you're feeling that it's not having enough of an affect try The Explosive Child.

Another thing someone once said to me, which I try to do, is to start everything with a smile and an 'it's lovely to see you!". Quite often you have to fake this but it does seem to set the tone.

Even though often I'm not feeling it and am tired and stressed, I always try to say a breezy happy "good morning!" to both of mine when they wake up and give them a big smile. Also when I'm picking them up from school/nursery or even when they've just been playing in another room (the older one) and wander into the kitchen - "Oh, there's DC1. DC2, isn't it nice to see DC1?"

Even if you're secretly wilting inside, if you create enough positive moments to 'frame' the chaos and negative stuff, as it were, hopefully this will rub off on your older one who will feel more secure.

No advice but solidarity as I'm in the same situation with 17 mo twins and just turned 4 year old - could have written your post myself.

Thank you to all the lovely people who have posted and offered helpful advice and especially solidarity! It really helps and I'm going to action a few of these. As some of you have clocked, there is only one of me and I do feel I'm trying my best with the one body I have available within the laws of physics etc. I love that photo of a hand idea ❤️

Re the nanny / nursery conundrum - yes nothing in life is perfect and I do think 3yo feels left out (but definitely has way more fun and more interesting things to do at nursery). The best option for us in our area was a more Montessori type place that doesn't actually start until 2.5 years of age, so not an option for the little ones. We like it and use funded hours for part of the cost. My personal opinion (which no one has to agree with) is that at 3 they get much more out of a nursery with others their age than being at home with a nanny or even a parent who is stretched by other younger children. To have both twins in a nursery round us was going to cost quite a lot over £4k a month all at our own expense. Nanny was the more economical choice for us, and I also think at 1-2 years old and with a built in playmate it's a good environment for them. It also means we have cover for sickness for all 3 children when needed (1 of 3 would always be off nursery!) and support on kids laundry etc.

I can't drop hours at work as its just me in that role so would not result in any less work just less pay, however I wfh a lot and spend a lot of time with all 3 children compared with most FTE. I don't feel Im missing out on them when they're little at all. I took a full year of mat leave and I'm happy with my decision to now get back to work and progress my career.

I feel I'm seeing a few green shoots after lots of family time and therefore lots of adults over Christmas. Fingers tightly crossed! Hope the other challenging toddlers mentioned on the thread got nice full stockings this Christmas.