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Original poster

Struggling with older sibling of twins

38 replies

Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:04

Anyone else?

2 year age gap. First 6 months were fine when the twins were babies. Past year has been awful. Hitting, pushing, latest is repeatedly spitting at me in a very insolent way, particularly when a boundary is given.

I'm at my wits end. My temper is fraying and I don't know what to do anymore. Time outs don't work. Consequences (no pudding, no tv) don't work.

toddler goes to nursery but not full time. Twins have a nanny. We both work. All the time around work, and particularly when I'm on my own with all 3 are the absolute pits. Nanny also struggles with the wrap around hours when she is in some charge.

thinking of upping the nursery hours, I know it's a cry for attention but the rest of us also matter and have a right to be safe and respected in our home!!!

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LadyDanburysHat · 19/12/2023 11:18

Safe and respected? By a 2 year old? Of course it is a cry for attention, and that is what you should be trying to give, not no tv, no dessert. Please get some help if you can't deal with this. More time in nursery is not what your child needs.

OakElmAsh · 19/12/2023 11:20

Hang on now, you're talking about a toddler here .... exerting your right to be safe and respected by a 3(?) year old is a bit ridiculous, they don't even know what those words mean.

There's many different partenting strategies you can try (123 Magic etc) but in general this sounds like typical toddler behavior

Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:38

I meant the twins have a right to be safe! The poor things keep being pushed over or hit. Every time I take my eyes off them for a second.

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Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:38

3,5 year old yes

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DogDaysAreOverr · 19/12/2023 11:41

Try rewards not punishment ?
What strategies have worked with him? Does he just want one on one time with you or his Dad? Is that possible even if it's at bedtime with a book?

His world has been upended by the arrival of not one but two siblings. It's a lot.

Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:46

I can't give them more attention. The problems come up when it's 3 on one. I can't ignore 2x 18 month olds. They need their nappies changed, they need food cooked for them, they need help eating, they need lifting into highchairs, they need helping up the stairs one by one. I have to do bath time on my own as my husband commutes a long way. I don't have more attention to give. I've really tried to give my toddler as much as I can. Encouraging nice play, tonnes of story time after the little ones are in bed, solo activities with both parents, getting toddler involved in e.g. fetching wipes. Star charts, etc. As I say I'm at my wits end now.

Specifically looking for people to share experiences of this particular dynamic, and posted on the multiples board because I can obviously see that having 2 babies turn up rather than 1 when you are only 2 yourself is probably twice as sh!t for a toddler.

The 3 of them together with the ages they are given the violent behaviour is more than one person can handle (either me or the nanny). I can't get 2 nannies or have a nanny during hours I'm not working (financially). My husband has to work at the office. Upping nursery would be a temporary measure, specifically because I really don't know what else I can do at this point.

Has anyone else experienced this? When does it end?

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EdgarsTale · 19/12/2023 11:46

They need lots of attention & love, but you have to nip the spitting & aggressive behaviours in the bud. Reward positive behaviours & ignore the spitting etc.

Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:47

@DogDaysAreOverr cross posted with you, we made some of the same points. Thanks for the constructive post

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return2sender · 19/12/2023 11:49

Do you have one on one time with your eldest?

Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:50

Thanks @EdgarsTale - I've tried ignoring it but it is just so infuriating and also embarrassing as happens in public too. It makes my blood boil, it is so horrible! I'll keep trying to ignore it. I also try just removing him from whatever fun is going on. I do use rewards but to be honest it's more bribes as it's the only thing that works. But I feel once the reward/bribe has been bestowed, it's straight back to square one.

I have started to wonder about neurodiversity as it's just such challenging behaviour that seems to show a lack of empathy for others.

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LadyDanburysHat · 19/12/2023 11:50

Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:38

I meant the twins have a right to be safe! The poor things keep being pushed over or hit. Every time I take my eyes off them for a second.

Kindly, I think this could be the situation with any 3yo and 18 mth children, even if there was only one. Sadly you can't take your eyes off them for a second when they are that age as they are very impulsive. It will pass, but it is also perfectly normal.

Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:51

@return2sender yes because I do the nursery run on my own after nanny has arrived. Then at weekends we do carve out one on one. Trip to see a show the other day with just a grandparent and me.

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Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:55

@LadyDanburysHat thanks that sort of makes me feel better, but I also feel this is beyond the normal extent of it? I have lots of mum friends and no one else is mentioning constant abuse of younger siblings. Also lots of cousins in the family with all sorts of different dynamics and this seems way worse than anything else I'm seeing. My working hypotheses are either i) it's because it's twins (I don't know anyone else with twins and this way around), or ii) it's something like ND. I was thinking twins factor most likely...

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Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 11:59

Also @LadyDanburysHat what help would you recommend (from your first post). I can't get more help in the home, we are already juggling childcare costs in the best way possible given the funded hours and the 2 for 1 nature of a nanny. Nanny is already a stretch for the hours we have and anyway can't cope with all 3 any better than I can. Do you mean like parenting classes, etc? Any specific recommendations?

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Rocknrollstar · 19/12/2023 12:02

Jealousy in a two year old is completely natural and it’s healthy that your child feels they can express their emotions. It’s very hard on you tho. You do need to find some way to make more time for them and make them feel special. As it was once put to me, how would you feel if your partner came home with another women and said ‘ this doesn’t mean I don’t love you but we are all going to live together’.

Ponche · 19/12/2023 12:05

I don’t have much advice but just sending solidarity as that sounds really tough. I have the same age gap but no twins and even that feels hard enough most days. I am also pretty much the default parent and it is a lot. DC1 is most likely ND but usually quite gentle with her sister/us. Maybe speak to nursery and see if they have any advice/ask how he is there?

Brandyginger · 19/12/2023 12:05

I have had a lot of support from CAMHS, sure start (both before funding cuts) and privately with my 2dc. Not multiples but older brother reacted very poorly (what you describe) to a sick and disabled baby arriving and it took about 8 years for us to unravel.

it came down to praise. Praise WHATEVER you can find that child 1 is doing. Even if it sounds ridiculous “I love how you’re sitting in your chair”, “I love how you said hello when you came out of nursery”. Gradually it will build up into “thank you so much for helping me with the twins, it was so wonderful you passed me the towel when they got out of the bath”

ridiculously simple but that’s what all the professional help boiled down to.

that and play therapy for my eldest - which might be indicated here. I’d google it and have a look.

Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 12:09

@Rocknrollstar at this point I'd be quite happy if he did that as perhaps she could help with the childcare :) But take your point!

@Ponche thanks, sorry you're also in the trenches! I have asked nursery - angelic apparently. Quite shy, definitely not throwing weight around there. Listens really well in group activities. Loves music. This feedback together with the shyness comment did make me start to wonder about masking and then it all falling apart at home.

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Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 19/12/2023 12:11

@Brandyginger 8 years, yikes. Hope your dc2 is doing ok now. Noted regarding praise, I think I do but will do more and make it more far fetched!

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ChimneyPot · 19/12/2023 12:24

I’ve been there and it is very full on.
22 month gap between eldest and twins, me working, DH working abroad, eldest part time nursery and nanny for twins.
Twins both ND though I didn’t know that at the time.

I think it was probably easier in some ways to have my eldest neurotypical and twins ND at least in the early days because even though she was bigger she wasn’t a danger to them but then the twins starting rowing between themselves.

I got an au pair to help because I needed more hands and eyes.

Other things I did before getting au pair were allowing TV on at the busiest times like when I was trying to get dinner out or put twins to bed.
And loads of one on one time for each of them.

Edited to add they are all young adults now, get on very well together.
It improved so much that we had a 4th child when the twins were 6.

Donimo · 20/12/2023 07:30

I have an older 1 (although 6 months older than yours) and 18 month old twins and my older one has outbursts and like you its due to attention. Things I find things that work are

  • Having some 1 to 1 time. Even if its only a couple of times a week. Even a short period which allows us to do something she cant when the twins are around. I let her choose what we are doing. Generally she choose crafts!
  • I pay her 10p for her money box for doing jobs/helping (i.e. tidy up, unloading the dishwasher, getting everyones shoes and coats when we go out). This gives her a reward and also keeps her occupied.
  • Games which they and you can all play together. And once they know how to play they do now play together for short periods without me. Games they like playing together- building a fort, hide and seek, building with megabricks, chase, ball pool, bubbles and books)
Might just be able to break the pattern of behaviour?!? Also have you asked your health visitor for strategies?
Original poster
Iwanttowantto · 20/12/2023 11:42

Thank you @Donimo it's really nice and useful to hear from someone in a very similar position. Noted your tips. HV is rubbish!

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Goldbar · 21/12/2023 13:29

I agree with praise, praise, praise. And screen time for the older one. Use it as a containment tool. Turn on the TV/tablet, bathe the little ones first, get them to bed and then do the older one. It's not ideal but it's the least worst solution and it's better than complete chaos and losing your rag.

You are one person being dragged in all direction by three irrational, impatient, jealous little people who want you, you, you. When you're on your own, view it as a siege situation and just throw all your available tools at it. Distract with snacks, stickers, music, TV, whatever.

Sandy8765 · 21/12/2023 13:36

If anyone is lacking empathy its you you talk about your toddler as if hes a thing not a child, he needs love and attention and is screaming for it and your answer is to leave him longer in nursery or get another nanny..and your answer i dont have time to give him,

Goldbar · 21/12/2023 13:43

Can you physically separate the space in your home with room dividers? Have a space that is just for the older one and another space just for the little ones?