IVF - 1 or 2 (got 2 DC already)

[IVFbeenverylucky]

Hello,
Ok I know I should have one transferred but just need everyone to have a real go at me for even thinking about 2.
I have 2 very young DC and am having a blastocyst transfer next week. The clinic will do 2, but are recommending 1 (it worked first time with both DC - singletons).
In my heart I really want four children, and have wanted twins since childhood. I decided during my second pregnancy "heart before head for 3; head before heart for 4". This is my last pregnancy (I'm 40), and since deciding this morning to have one, I have been upset and can't stop thinking about changing it.
To top it all off I'm a single mother by choice (using donor sperm - same one for all kids).
I know everyone will think I'm mental even thinking about this - please just have a go at me for thinking about 2; it's what I need right now.
Also, sorry if I am coming across as very lucky (which I am), or a bit ungrateful for what I've got (which I am not). I know there are people who can't have kids, but thankfully my worries are not so serious, but still worries.....

You are completely right about this. And of course it makes a difference.

Both my DDs were overdue and so although I realise twins would come early, I have tended to discount them coming very early, but I do appreciate that could happen and I honestly don't know how I'd manage. Also my two children to date have been very easy babies/toddlers (they are currently 24 and 10 months btw), but yes, I'm overdue a nightmare baby that does not sleep for more than half an hour at a time!

I realise clubs etc as they are older will add up, but surely this cannot be more than childcare costs when they are pre-school? I'm currently paying £2k a month ffs!

My plan is to stay in my present job long term, and I'm hoping once they are mostly/all in school to change my hours to 4 or 4 1/2 days, but over 5 days - with 2 full days in the office and 3 days at home, working school hours. I work for a trade union so they are "nice" with these sorts of things, and I'd be surprised if I could not do that.

Although I have always wanted twins, it's more saying goodbye to 4 than twins that I feel sad about. My original plan was to have 2 transferred, and if I had one baby, then that was meant to be. I'm just getting cold feet because bearing in mind my success so far (2 single transfers, 2 children), then the chances of twins are probably very real. In theory I could probably have more in the future (my eggs were frozen when I was younger for medical reasons, and I have an abundance in the freezer), but psychologically I've decided this is my last pregnancy and I know that unless I prepare myself that way I will always pine for a fourth - medium to long term a big age gap is hard as a single parent. Having them close together does make many things easier when they are school age.

I did come on here to be told I was crazy and should have just one, which my head knows is what I should do, so thank you for (mostly) confirming that.

If you have another now what pram would you even use? Your two year old will still need a pram won’t they? How will you get around?

I know you are set on three but can you not wait a while? A year even?

Mum of 5 including twins here, my twins are my youngest and by golly it’s hard and mine are pretty chilled babies but even still it’s hard.

My twin pregnancy is probably one of the hardest things I’ve ever done, I was 39 and turned 40 shortly before they were born. I have never been so tired in all my life, when pregnant I was just so sleepy all the time, I had a really hard time parenting my then 3 year old and the school and college run for the older 2 was awful. For about the last 3 weeks of my pregnancy I cried daily I was just so tired and uncomfortable. Honestly the c section recovery was a blessed relief compared to the pain of those final weeks of pregnancy. I was lucky too as mine were born as planned at 37w both good weight, needed no extra help and were great at latching so we were home within 24 hours and then the real hard work started.

I love my twins endlessly but there are so many things I hadn’t even considered before I had them…the guilt just for starters as it’s incredibly difficult to hold them both at the same time if they were crying or needed feeding at the same time, I could only do it if I had someone there to hand me the second baby. Going out, we’ve been out so much less since they’ve been born which makes me feel bad as they’ve not had the same experiences as my singletons did as it’s just so hard going anywhere. There is no just nipping up to the shop, or to the park, everything is major operation and looks like I’ve packed for a week away.

Having said all the above, I absolutely love being a twin mum, it’s a wonderful experience and seeing my twins interact with each other is so heartwarming. I think you already know without me and others telling you that twin pregnancy and all that comes after is hard, but the reality of it is still a big shock.

The heart wants what the heart wants and sometimes the heart rules. I think what you have to do is carefully consider how you will feel in each scenario, do you think you can be fulfilled with a single transfer/possible baby? If it was successful do you think you would very much regret not transferring two? If you transfer two and they don’t take, will you regret not having transferred just the one? What about if only one out of the two takes? If you do end up having twins and finding it very very hard as pretty much most twin parents do will you wish you had only transferred one? These aren’t answers anyone can give for you, all you can do is try your best to answer them for yourself and make the best decision you can from there.

@Opine
I already have a double pram. If it works my DD will be 2 1/2 months shy of three. I've always carried my youngest for a long time - DD1 didn't go in a pushchair till she was 8 months, so with one I'd manage with carrying the baby and then DD1 going on a standing board. I would probably need a new pram if I had twins, as I don't think DD1 being on a standing board all the time would be practical at that age, although she is a good walker and I wouldn't be going out much/far for a while, so I might actually manage. TBH the pram is the least of my worries!

@Lillygolightly
A big part of me would always I think wish I'd had a fourth, and would always wonder if they were boy or girl and how we would have got on. If I had four then I'd love them all to bits, and yes things would be a struggle and a financial struggle forever, but I don't think I would ever regret it. The only exception would be if one of them had a significant disability, but even then it wouldn't be the child I regretted, more that things had turned out as they did and my other children did not get the level of care they should. (I have a sibling with a severe disability and although I love him to bits, this is something I am quite conscious of.)
It is the heart, but plenty of people put head over heart, and I'm not the first person to not have as many children as they want. Ultimately I'm very privileged to have two, and almost certainly a third, even if I would like a fourth. As one pp said that's what being an adult is about: blunt, but so true.

I think a 2 year old, 1 year old and newborn twins or even 1 newborn in the mix is madness.

My son is 2.7 years. Just one of him. I still find he needs lots of physical lifting and help, even though he’s a confident Walker. He can’t get himself in own car seat for example, or on and off a train safely, or just be let loose on high climbing frames without me watching, help in and out bath. He will cycle his bike, then after 20 mins I end up carrying said bike and child in the other. He was ill on and off the last 2 month with various stuff from nursery, and needed comfort and holding to sleep or doctors. If we visit someone it’s not with a small army.

How you would do this with 4 under 2.5 alone I have no idea.

I’m coming back to this after your updates to say definitely don’t have two put back and consider stopping at two children.

Stopping at two children not happening; transfer is this Tuesday, and the only question is one or two transfers. I do want everyone to have say one because I know that is what I should do. But as a pp said the heart is a complex thing and I know that I would never regret three however hard financially and otherwise it might be.
I've this morning had an eform from the clinic asking me to confirm one transfer (as had previously said two, but more to keep my options open really). Just ticking the box saying one is hard though.

I’m another recommending to have one embryo transferred.

During ICSI cycles to have my first, I had two embryos transferred. I was willing to risk getting 1 & 2 in one go, but even then the clinic warned of triplets if an embryo split. I conceived the twins spontaneously when I was 40 and had them at 41.

Lots of posters mentioned how hard twin pregnancy is, it’s really rough and I struggled with looking after one toddler even with a partner to help. Juggling 3 is tricky even though DH works from home most of the time. Mine are toddlers now and it’s much more difficult taking them out than just a singleton. I have to take the double buggy on the school run, if I just had one I would have more options, I could carry one in etc. I can’t even begin to imagine how I’d manage 4 on my own.

If you really want a 4th further down the line and you have embryo(s) banked there’s no reason why you couldn’t try again at say 43.

That said if I was in your position I’d stick at two- but I’m not you and it’s your decision to make.

I'd go for one.

I only had one transferred and it split and I now have identical twins.

A lady at my clinic had two transferred and both embryos split and she now has quads (two sets of identical twins)

I am a single mum and twins is very very hard going. I love my babies and wouldn't change it but I can't overstate just how hard it is on your own, and that's without other children in the mix.

Thanks @singleandwingingit I've decided to go for one, although I really really hope that they do split. I can help but want that.
Can't quite get my head around quads.

I think you are doing the right thing just transferring 1 when you are a single parent by choice - I nearly died (and so did my twins) during birth and it really shook me up that I could have left my eldest child motherless x

You would be mad to do 2. I have 6 month old twins and a 2.5 year old and although the first few months were mostly ok, at the moment it's very very hard. Having the 3 of them on my own right now pushes me to the very brink of sanity. I'm sure it will ease off in about a year when the toddler is a bit more able, but right now frankly it sucks. I have supportive and high earning dh as well, couldn't actually fathom what I would do otherwise. Twins are amazing but in my exp having other children in the mix makes it a nightmare!

I agree, noone needs 3-4 kids, especially at 40+! Especially with cost of living etc. It's risky in more ways than one, healthwise, financially. No way would a rational person do this.

@IVFbeenverylucky

well dont you have any guilt about having more than two children?

Bit perplexed by some peoples reactions; people want different sized families. I've wanted a few since being very young, and motherhood has not changed that. I find it weird the way some people have some a almost psychiatric judgment on those who want or have more than 2. It's nasty and judgmental and none of your business. Why the obsession with two?! The only sad thing is when people can't have as many children as they would like to have, whether that's for medical or other reasons.
I had the transfer yesterday, just one, which my head says is right, but a big part of me is sad about. Anyway, now for the two week wait. Mostly I'm feeling excited.

@IVFbeenverylucky ignore those that get snooty about not having more than 2. I have 3 and would have transferred my remaining embryos to try for a 4th if I could. If you can afford them without relying on any state benefits - including universal credit - then it's no one's business but your own.

Being a single parent - in my case not by choice though - has led to a lot of soul searching (not that I can transfer them without ex husbands consent now anyway!) - finances aside - part of me absolutely feels like I could absolutely parent another child on my own but if something were to happen to me as a result of another pregnancy id feel terribly irresponsible and guilty. But that's based on nearly dying in my last pregnancy (and whilst trying to get pregnant after I had ruptured ectopics)

I do feel stretched physically and emotionally with 3 children - I don't feel they all have the same attention my eldest did before the twins came along. But thats ex husbands fault for leaving and obviously the twin dynamic is part of that - If they were all different ages I don't think it would be as hard

Good luck with your transfer

Sorry, but it's undeniably selfish to stretch yourself thin to raise 4 kids on your own, by choice. Each additional kid means less time, less attention, less patience, less money and less opportunities for the existing ones. Very few couples can provide adequately for 4 kids in this day and age, let alone a single parent.

But you make these judgments without knowing anything at all! I am not super rich although earn just enough to not get child benefit, but I have never been very interested in material things. I am quite happy to have no car, scarcely any clothes, not go on fancy holidays. If I won the lottery I probably would not do any of these things (maybe the hols, but def not the car or clothes).
I accept that each child gets less attention as another comes along, but applied literally no one should ever have more than one child (or a pet). I feel I can cope, and there are pluses and minuses. I am one of three which was just normal in the 80s when I grew up, and I cannot imagine not having siblings. For me the fact that my children are from a single parent family and therefore have half the expected grandparents, uncles/aunts/cousins etc, is a good reason to have more than one - I'd hate them to grow old and just not have family at all. My two daughters already play with each other and they learn and get so much from that, that I do think it's better than them being only children, albeit they would then get more attention from me.
That you have less individual attention is a mixed thing - siblings are often a big bonus, and children can get too much attention, although only when they are older than mine are currently.
Money is more complex, and yes that is more of a worry as they get older, but ultimately for me money and the things it buys are just less important than they are for others. I'm not trying to be patronising, but I have literally no interest in clothes for example; I simply never have. I am just totally not materialistic by nature, although I am concerned about not being able to provide them all by helping with a first home deposit which my parents did for me. Ultimately though I would be prepared to sell my own home and move somewhere smaller, further out, to help them do this, and I expect to do that. For me having a few children and helping them like this is the most natural thing in the world. It might look like sacrifice, selfishness or madness to others, but it genuinely is what I want and I do not believe I would ever have any regrets.

Good lord, don't compare children to pets! What happens if you have an expensive emergency, or a large unexpected bill? 65k is not that much when it comes to being the sole provider with 4 kids! This strong need that some women have for so many kids baffles me. Just enjoy the ones you have!

You might not care about luxuries and material things. However, your children might feel differently. And helping out with university fees or a deposit for a first house are hardly luxuries. Extracurricular activities too. School trips. 4 sets of uniforms. 4 set of braces if they need them.

Children get increasingly more expensive as they grow. Don't lose sight of that

I do agree to a certain extent with the recent replies in terms of finances - I earn about £75k but being divorced and barely receiving any CMS it's challenging with 3 children but obviously twin childcare costs are eye watering. I'm not well off or comfortable but not barely surviving either. I have enough left over after bills etc that we can have days out and clothes when needed etc (but not extravagantly so). Foreign holidays would be impossible as would a new car (current is paid off). Even when twins get 30 hours this will coincide with mortgage coming out of fixed rate and same with gas/electric so whatever I save there will be eaten up by those costs. I have a 3 bed but really could do with 4 as twins are not same sex but won't be able to afford to make that move.

University cost support would be unlikely but I don't agree with parents having to foot the bill anyway and we live in a major city with a dozen or so really good unis that are commutable.

I don't think my children "want" for anything - they don't go without but at the same time are not spoilt.

It's a personal judgment call isn't it. Just because one person couldn't spread themselves across more than 2 children doesn't mean that no one can. My children are loved beyond measure and so would any subsequent ones if I had been fortunate enough to have more.

Quality of parenthood can't be measured in terms of providing money for uni fees (that they may never go to) or house deposits (which they could save themselves), braces (which they'd get on the NHS) and so on

I received very generous support from my parents for uni and first (and unfortunately current) home, and do very much hope to do so for my own children. Atm I am paying around 2k a month in childcare costs and sadly my mortgage is SVR and I can't do anything about it (basically because of my kids). That said, long term I simply plan on moving further out of London, I'm zone 3, but just a few miles down the road I could have a smaller mortgage with an extra bedroom and bigger garden. And although clothes and holidays and clubs add up more as they are older you are not paying a fraction of what I am paying on childcare then. No way do these things costs £2k a month! Uni (including fees) for one child would still be less than that, and is only for 3/4 years. I've got a long period when they are in school where I can start saving for that - and I do trust myself to do so.
Money is a bit of a worry for the medium-long term future, although mainly because it is such an unknown. By the time I come off mat leave with my third, DD1 will be getting the 30 hours, and DD2 will be only six months away from that. My kids are in a small local nursery which follows the law, and so they will get three days (which includes food) per week albeit over 38 weeks only. I work for a trade union and get generous annual leave - 9 weeks, so that only leaves an extra five, which I will have to pay nursery extra to take them for but that's fine. It really is more the providing support in early adulthood where I am genuinely disappointed I won't be able to offer what my parents did for me but can and will be able to provide more than many can, and it's hardly the same as not supporting them through childhood. And they will have an extra sibling for life, I've two siblings and I really value that even tho' we're not super close compared to some.
I just think people want and value different things. For some the compromises of a further child (however many you have) are too demanding, but others value the child more and the things you are giving up much less.

I think many people like the idea of having a big brood, but after a couple realise it is sensible to stop. You haven't even properly hit the terrible 2 stage. Try not to be too offended by people trying to put you off. They are speaking from experience.
I agree with you that you don't need to spend lots of money for the kids to have a good childhood. But you do need time, eyes and hands, something which you don't have a lot of. Eg you aren't allowed to take more than 2 kids under 8 to the pool by yourself. This means that for the next 6 years, you can't take your kids swimming unless you find a random willing adult to come with you. How can you watch 4 kids at once in the sea? Or even in a play park?
I really hope for you that this latest transfer works out for you. But if it doesn't, try to remember that although you have lost a fantasy, your girls will have gained a lot more mummy time, more financial security and you will all be freed up to take on more exciting adventures.

Think logistics. Could you fit them all in the car? Would you need a triple or quad buggy? Do you have the resources? Babysitters don’t often want to look after 4! Having said that ivf is crazy and what you go through to make those little embabies in the freezer makes it difficult not to give them all a try. I have 4 and hand on heart it is DIFFICULT but only you know what you can deal with. Remember the hormones can be clouding your ideas I know they did for me when I when for a transfer with 2 when I already had 2 little ones…