A few issues I'm having - exhausted!!

[willow3006]

Hi

My twin boys are now 14 weeks and I've been trying to get them into a routine from 2 weeks old. Their bedtime routine seems to be sorted and they have a bath at 6 then a feed then sleep to 11pm when we wake them up, feed them and put them back to bed.

One of the twins then always wakes up at 3am loudly grunting and kicking, small whining but not really crying. He sounds congested but never is during the day and I can't see any congestion. We've tried leaving him but he just doesn't go back to sleep at all and continues the grunting and moving around every 10 mins so we end up picking him up and putting him on his stomach which sometimes works, sometimes ends up in crying. The other twin wakes up and cries on and off from 5.30 to 7 when we get them both up.

I think although I'd like them to sleep through from 11-7 I'm getting some sleep so I'm not going to moan about this bit too much. My main issue is the daytime naps and feeding.

They have always been on formula and were drinking 180ml every feed quite happily. Now for the last 3 weeks they have 30-50ml then screw their faces up, arch their backs and then I battle to give them more until we get to about 100ml. They grab the bottle into their mouths as if hungry but as soon as it's in they cry and won't drink. They're both doing it and I have no idea why. They just won't feed properly, even at 7am after no food all night they're just not bothered about food. They do cry a lot now in the day and they didn't used to so I presume they are actually hungry? I've tried winding them, waiting longer for feeds, baby gaviscon in case it's reflux (they do throw up quite a lot more than they used to but not projectile) but they both just cry for the bottle and then spit it out, close their mouths and cry to have it taken away! I'm exhausted from 2 hour feeding sessions and then listening to them both crying all day! I've been to the doctor twice but both times they won't do anything unless they have lost a lot of weight or have a temperature! Any suggestions on what it could be?

The last question I have is about naps in the day. They go down at 8.30 for 40 minutes and 3.30pm for 40 minutes but I'm trying to get them to have a longer midday nap. They just won't! I put them down at 11.30ish and they do 40 minutes and then wake up and just cry. I've tried 3 weeks of controlled crying to see if they will just go back to sleep for another 40 minutes but they won't. They just end up crying the whole time and then being tired all afternoon!

Any advice? Do babies need that lunchtime nap or shall I just let them have the 40 mins and give up?

Help!

willow x

The feeding issue does sound like it could be silent reflux one of my DT's had it and we gave Dentionox 15 mins before a feed aswell as the infant gavison this would also help with trapped wind which it could also be. Whats your HV like? Maybe ask for advice if your not happy with GP's response.

Nap wise It looks like they dont need that much longer during the day at the moment maybe they will when they cut out the 8.30 nap....probably wont be for a while though.

At the 11 night feed I would try not waking them and feeding them while they are asleep -we used to do it in the dark and they hardly stirred. It might help with them being unsettled in the early hours. If they are better rested they may even sleep better in the day as they wont be over tired and will hopefully get used to sleeping for longer periods of time.

With feeding, my dts did exactly the same as your two, starting at around 3 months. He had been drinking loads, and gaining weight brilliantly, then at 3 months, it was such a battle to get him to take the bottle - just like yours, he'd seem hungry and then cry and not want the milk. He was also being sick far more than previously. It got to the point where he was only drinking when he was practically asleep, and in the night. It was a tough time as there didn't seem to be an answer and at 6 months it all just stopped. Looking back, the only reason I can see is that he had caught up weight wise (dts were born 34+5, he was 4.5lb), and just didn't need the amount he'd been having, and was vomiting because he just didn't need it. I found it realy stressful at the time, but he was still gaining weight. Someone also suggested that it could also be teeth - his first didn't appear until 7 months, but apparently they start to move in the gums much earlier. I guess we'll never know but now at 15 months he is strong, healthy, happy and eats EVERYTHING! NOW I find it much easier to accept that babies are pretty good at drinking/eating what they need, but I found this very hard when they were 3 months old.
The part of your post about naps, I could have written! I was SOOOO frustrated that they didn't nap longer than 40 minutes at a time, especially when they seemed tired! For the lunchtime nap, I ended up putting them in the buggy after the first 40 mins and going out for a walk - this did work and they'd go back off for another 40 mins. They also had 40 mins in the morning and another 40 mins in the late afternoon at that age. Again, this seemed to be something that just sorted itself out with age and at around 6 months they started napping fr longer stretches. I read somewhere (I think www.babysleepsite.com) that as they get older and their brain matures they nap longer, and it is very common for babies 3-6 months to nap only 40 mins at a stretch. Again, knowing this didn't make it any less stressful - especially when I had my GF book telling me that 'baby should sleep for 2 hours'!!
Gosh sorry for such a long-winded post. I guess what I'm trying to say is relax! Even though I didn't when I was at the stage you are :)

My 2 boys were exactly the same, I tried everything from Gripe Water, Dentinox, Infacol etc but nothing worked they were screaming in pain when passing wind, being sick etc ended up taking them to paediatrician who gave them gaviscon, ranitadine and domperidone which worked a treat and I also changed my bottles to Dr Brown's bottles. It does depend on your HV and GP as one HV told me that it was just colic and to get on with it basically and another made me an appointment to see paediatrician as she said it's bad enough with one baby but with twins there is just no time to nurse etc all the time.

They had reflux and colic, was an absolute nitemare, all I can say is it gets better as they get older, they are 24 weeks now and started solids and are never sick now, have taken them off their medicine (which I thought would never happen) and they seem to be fine. My babies also hated being laid down, they were so much better when propped up and their swings were a god send!!

My boys would no nap through the day before I got the triple medication, it was because they were so uncomfortable. They now sleep from 7.30pm-7am and have done for a while now. They also have a nap after their first feed, usually half an hour or so then sometimes have an hour after lunch then half an hour early evening then bedtime routine and bed. Sorry to have gone on a bit but my advice is that if they are arching their backs, being sick, pulling their legs up in pain, not settling for naps etc then keep on at your HV as that was the same symptoms my boys had. I was told at hospital that reflux and colic are common factors in either boys, premature babies and c-section and guess what I fit into the 3 categories!!

I hope you find a solution soon and you have all my sympathy as I know how tiring it is......I thought I would never feel human again......I'm getting their slowly but surely :)

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm going to call the HV again today as one of my twins is now barely eating anything! I guess I'll just keep pestering. If not, I'm going to just bite the bullet and see if I can find a private paeditrician to take them to. If anyone knows of any good ones in Middlesex/Surrey then do let me know!

Willow - try popping a pillow /cushion underneath their matress so they are tilted slightly , this can help with reflux. I had to pester my GP who was useless and it was a lovely HV who helped in the end when I cried in a baby clinic and told them I couldnt cope. Can you try asking for a second opinion or a referal to a paediatrician - I dont think they can refuse. A cranial Osteopath can work wonders with collic - might be worth a try. Good Luck.

Hi Willow, agree with Fezella try propping mattress at head end slightly when sleeping, and also when changing nappies, my health visitor said because one of my twin girls had reflux from birth up to about 9 months, try to avoid lying her completely flat as it can be painful. We tried the gaviscon etc, but the best thing that worked was a milk thickner which meant that after a feed it wouldnt 'come up' so much, if you know what i mean! I suppose its all trial and error what will work with your little one, but ask for advice - as my girls were premature, we had all this help when they were still in hospital so it was spot on, but i think health visitors on the whole tend to write it off as colic and thats just something to be endured....i dont agree. As the mum you will be the best judge of when your baby is not comfortable, go with your instincts, try the above and let us know if it improves. good luck:)

I had the same experience as benjala mummy... My twins were struggling with the volume of formula... When we dropped it right down to 60ml feed at night they slept much better & stopped being sick. I reckon your two are going for the bottle cos they love to suck - not cos they're hungry.
As for the routine - give up!
I tried & tried to encourage a daytime structure but so long ad you have a set bedtime (think ours were 7pm, 11pm dream feed etc) with that set in stone the rest will fall into place.
mine eventually settled at around 6 months. & started sleeping through together at 11 months.
It's tough but you'll get there. Good luck!

I'm not a mum of multiples but had similar issues as you with my singleton, agree with everything Fezella suggested!

I'm not a mum to twins either but my DD was like this with feeding as well and I drove myself round the bend with it. The thing that 'cured' her instantly was a faster teat on the bottle.
Worth a try, it worked for me.

My twin girls were exactly like this. put them on gaviscon and wysoy as.prescribed by the pediatrician and it was like someone swapped babies!!!

how are you getting on now op??

I havent read all the other comments sorry but just wanted to quickly put my input. This def sounds like reflux as they sound quite colicky too? I would book an appt. The other thing I have to say is you asked if they have to have the lunchtime nap? Imo its up to the mum I got so stressed trying to get a routine I went baby led yes even with twins and my god what a difference even with reflux honestly hun I was putting too much pressure on us and now Im relaxing a little its sooo better (we keep the bedtime routine though as it is working).

Princessblods - we took them to a paeditrician in the end and one did have reflux! He is currently on ranatidine, gaviscon, donperidone but it's not working so we're going back in 2 weeks!