Can't believe how hard this is!!

[willow3006]

Hi

Sorry this post is so long - I have 6 week old twin boys and am usually a very organised stress-free person but am starting to feel like I'm just no good at this! I know it's normal to feel tired all the time as they're just babies but I constantly feel like I'm going to go into meltdown!

I tried starting a routine really early at 2 weeks knowing it would take a long time to click into place but I'm still getting nowhere! If the babies are awake they are just crying/screaming until fed or asleep and nothing except constant attention for an hour consoles them! It seems that as soon as one settles the other starts so there's never a break! I keep reading about twins that sleep 5-6 hours and can't imagine how mine will ever do that! My routine is below - can someone tell me where I'm going wrong? I've been formula feeding from day 1 but although I've tried to feed together they both seem to need so much winding that it just doesn't work so now I try to feed one before the other (but the 2nd twin just screams the whole time I do it asnd then while I feed twin 2 the first twin who has just been fed screams!)

7am - wake the babies up, nappy change, lights on, feed. They sleep in moses baskets separately in our room.

I then try to keep them awake for an hour with varying success. Usually they just cry.

8.30am - nap time. The problem here is they won't sleep unless I put on a white noise app on my iphone! This works a little and I can usually get them to sleep for a bit but am worried that I'll have to use the white noise forever and it can't be good to have a mobile phone next to their heads all the time!

I then feed at 10 and do same awake and nap. Then at 1 and 4pm.

After the 4pm I try to keep awake until 6.15 when they have their bath and we feed them in the nursery. We then out them in a cot in the nursery to get them used to it at 7pm and this bit seems to work as after going in 3/4 times to settle them they generally sleep until 10 or 11pm. We then feed again at 11pm and put them in the moses baskets in our room again.

They then wake up at 2.30am and 5.30am. We're trying to not feed them when they wake at 5.30/6 as then they won't take their 7am feed but this does mean we don't sleep at all for that time as they just cry!

For the feeds we give 120ml each feed inc the night feeds and sometimes they take it all but not always. I'm not sure how to ever get them to go longer than 2.30am in the night? We tried pushing it by 15 mins a night (as in Baby secrets book) but they still wake at 2.30.

Will they just eventually sleep longer? Is there anything I shoukd be doing that I'm not??? I'm so tired and they just seem so miserable and unsettled! I've started to dread every day and then every night!

Any advice appreciated...

Firstly congratulations

I don't have twins but I've always found my life so much easier when I just feed etc on demand and let the baby lead the way.

Sleeping and feeding etc

They may settle into their own patterns

Plus, why wake them in the morning? This may be disruptin their natural sleep pattern

Sure some one will be along shortly I'm sure

Do you have much RL support? Even just 2/3 hours out of the house may do you the power of good

The problem with on demand with twins is that they will have different patterns so as soon as you feed one the other will wake an hour later to be fed so there's no time to ever sleep. Thats why I wake the other twin if 1 wakes up in the night.

The waking at 7 comes from Gina Ford. I apparently need to start that early so they get enough feeds in the day to not need so many at night.

What is RL? Unfortunately finances don't allow me to get a nanny in or anything.

RL is real life. Like a friend or sister, mother in law that could pop in once a week for an afternoon?

Have you contacted your local children's centre and asked if they have any support for multiples?

There is a multiples thread on here, maybe ask there?

we shouldn't mention HER who cannot be named

Hello!

Well done for everything you have done so far! I have twins who are just about to turn 1, and your situation seemed sooooo like ours was, it was a bit spooky!

Ive not had a chance to read your OP in lots of detail - just trying to fit in some toast before my two wake up again , but a few ideas for now:

I think trying to feed them together is the right thing, or you end up always feeding. As regards the winding thing, I used to feed my twins with one leaning against my chest, facing out, and the other lying by my leg on the sofa. I always fed them in the same position, never alternated them. I found that the one propped against my chest needed winding less often (probably because of the position), and so I could focus on the other one first, leaving the baby against my chest. There are some positions for winding both, I looked on google and found a few but none really worked for me.

They are still very little, so sleeping for about 3 hours ish is about normal Id say..... Gradually it will get better, and after a while we realised that one of our twins is a much better sleeper than the other, so we could leave her to sleep a bit longer between feeds. This was probably when they were around 3 or 4 months I think.

I wondered why your twins are crying so much - I know people say 'babies cry', but I have found with my 3 (Ive got an older one too) that if they are crying regularly and a lot, there is generally a reason - do you have any ideas? One of our twins had reflux, which we tried lots of things for (infant gaviscon, ranitidine, domperidone etc), which helped a bit, but it wasnt until we weaned that it made the difference.

The first few months are the hardest, and as they start to grow a wee bit and also you get to know them as individuals, it gets easier.

Will write more when I can, but please feel free to PM me or ask any specific questions here, my brain is a bit mush-like, but will try and help!

Actually, just having a quick scan, if they wake at 6, could you perhaps try and stretch them to 6.15 or 6.30, and then treat that as an earlier 7am feed, rather than waiting til 7? Also, our babies tended to drink more at certain feeds than others, so perhaps the morning ones might be bigger feeds, a bit less during day, a large feed before bed and smaller feeds in the night?

Also have you tried swaddling? absolute godsend for all 3 of mine.....

Firstly, You are doing an amazing job - be kind to yourself.

I have twin DDs (non ID) We took the lead from the babies and they got themselves into a routine. I had a copy of GF but it really wasn't for us or the girls for that matter.

I did partial BF topped up with formula so sometimes they would be fed together in their bouncy things with me sitting between them on the floor. DTD2 who was the smallest did suffer a bit with colic but we gave her some Infacol before feeding which seemed to do the trick.

They shared a cotbed - first side by side and then head at each end. They seemed to really like this - not being separated. We had a playpen bassinet thing downstairs and found that they slept during the day in that (great not to have to keep going up and down stairs), we didn't close the curtains or make the room dark but they slept anyway. Only the bedroom was dark for the night time sleep so they seemed to get into a kind of natural rhythm.

DP shared all the changes and FFeeds during the night and it's amazing how one can adapt to sleeping in chunks of 3 hours. I thing that they were around 3 months when they started going a little longer after the 11pm feed so gradually it went from 2am to 6am thereby dropping the middle feed.

All children are different whether singles or twins and the problem is that although we read the books, the little ones don't! The best bit of advice I got (and took) was to sleep when they did - even if it is only for 30 minutes it helps.

Having twins is a wonderful gift (although 2 3.5 year old knocking lumps out of each other matter )

Hi Willow, and congratulations on your boys. I've got b/g twins of 9.5 months (7.5 months corrected) and have also been following GF with them.

I did find that ours couldn't deal with the routine until they were about 6 weeks corrected, so don't despair that they will never get it. They might just have been a bit small until now. Were yours at all premature? If so, you might need to adjust expectations as for some things like appetite and ability to sleep (and stay awake) they will be behind chronological age. It's annoying that Gina doesn't tackle that in her book.

The night time feeds sound just the same as ours were, and I promise you they will eventually go, leaving you with more sleep. Unfortunately they need to be a bit bigger before they can drop them altogether, but from my notes it looks as though from around 7 weeks corrected they were managing to go from 10pm-ish until around 3am or maybe later, then lasting until 6.30-7am.

At that age, we were offering 150mls at each feed (by which I mean 150 of water plus formula) and I suppose the fact that they sometimes finish their bottles of 120 could mean yours are ready to take more. It is key that they are tanked up with milk when you expect them to sleep or they will wake early, but obviously if their tummies are too small to take much then more frequent feeding is inevitable.

I would say if you give them a big feed in the night but they wake a little early, don't lie there all suffering separately but get them up and start the day. The routine does allow for a bit more flexing than it appears, so you can usually get back to where you want to be for bedtime. I think in the early days I was terrified of departing from the timings, but you do have to sometimes and then you find the world doesn't end and they cope.

A couple of other observations on your post:

1. Your personality type sounds rather like mine, and if you know yourself that well then you also know babies will take your well-ordered life and throw it up in the air. They won't do things in the way you want all that much of the time, which is frustrating particularly when they are being illogical (eg crying as if they will die while you are mixing the drinks!) but you are doing a great job and I guarantee your friends will be in awe of how you manage two.

1. The tag team crying does go on at least as far as I've got to, so you have to learn to be a bit deaf to it. I think mums with one baby stand some chance of not having much crying during the day, but that's not so for multiples. Mine cry quite a lot, but I don't think it's a judgement on my skills, it's just how it goes when you only have one pair of hands. It IS wearing though, I totally understand.

1. Keeping them awake...they are still little so they might actually need more sleep than Gina says (she's not always right) but I also had a period where they would cry badly whenever I wasn't holding them, and felt there was nowhere I could put them down - they hated their bouncy chairs, hated carrycots, and hated their baby gym, which were my only options. Eventually I clicked that they were bored, bought a great big playmat and fished out some toys, and it changed my life. I'm not saying they didn't cry after that, clearly, but they were able to spend short periods occupying themselves. Look at the views they have from wherever you put them - is there anything interesting to see, or conversely anything too stimulating for them? Are they comfy, warm enough, is there anything they can interact with? I'm embarrassed how long it took me to figure out mine were bored.

Good luck!

Hi,
My boys are now on a GF type routine, but I would suggest that your DT's are too young. I found that doing any sort of routine before about 12 weeks was just a recipe for making me feel like a failure.

Sorry for v quick post. Like others I tried GF but boys wanted to feed every 2 hours and slept in between. One had reflux so I just spent a lot of time holding him. It took me a while to drop the conviction that I could look after twins and do housework/cooking etc. I still find it hard tbh. They will start sleeping longer stretches when they are a bit bigger. I'm sure you will find your own routines with them. Congratulations - hope yoi enjoy Christmas together.

dtds are now 16w and it's getting easier all the time, until we have a bad day! I don't bother with a strict routine in the day other than only feeding every 4 hours (from start of feed to start of the next), and then I know that if they're crying it's wind if they're pulling legs up or tiredness if they're just crying. I find swaddling and dummies work - dtds only take dummies if tired so that's a good indicator for us.

They were on 3 hour feeds initially and I can't remember when that changed - dd1 never managed to go 4 hours so depends on the babies.

I have a sling so I can hold one while cooking dd1's dinner, and we have a cleaner.

The book I love is The Baby Book: How to Enjoy Year One by Rachel Waddilove - gave us a guide to how much sleep and a routine but we don't follow it strictly apart from bedtime routine. Settling them at night, we find their Tiny Love Classic mobile is amazing as they love it (although dtd2 did get very excited when the rabbit came close and then wimpered with bottom lip out when it went away again!).

Keep going - the happy times and sleep times get longer I promise x

Forgot to say - ours sleep from 8.30pm, we change nappies and dream feed with bottles (150mls now even though they're only 9lbs) at 11.30pm, then they were sleeping until 6.30am or even 7am, but thet went out the window and now they tend to wake about 3.30/4.30am - for this feed we pull them into bed and I feed laying down while dh comforts the other and they stay in bed with us until morning - co-sleeping for us is for survival, but they always sleep in their cots between 8.30pm and 3.30am. If they wake before 7am we let them suck on a finger if they won't take a dummy.

I haven't read all the replies, but I'm another twin mum who let the babies lead the way.

I offered food whenever they woke, and let them whenever they slept. I breast fed them separately, which meant 99% of the day was spent feeding, but when they're this little you can feed one and play with the other on the bed next to you/in a bouncy chair. We pretty much had a cycle of

Nappy
Feed
Sleep
Nappy
Feed
Play

On repeat all day! I was knackered, but by staying in bed 99% of the time, I slept on the rare occasions both babies were asleep at the same time.

After the first few weeks (maybe 4 or 6?), my twins started to sleep from about 9 until 12pm. My DH used to sit with them and try to distract them if they woke during that time, so I got a 3 hour block if sleep then. Other than that it was just snatched half hours.

It might not make you feel any better, but we never had much screaming (can't remember any screaming to be honest. Some crying, yes, but not screaming). Not sure whether I had peaceful babies or whether following their lead all the time meant they had no reason to scream. Personally I couldn't have witheld whatever they were demanding (I always take the easy route!), so I routine was never going to get established, I just gradually realised they mostly followed the pattern above.

Congratulations on your babies And remember, your only job in these early days is to look after the babies. Someone else needs to cook, clean, shop etc. Just keep going, it will change soon and you'll have a different pattern to your days.

Enjoy those snuggly cuddles!

Hi - congratulations! It sounds like you're doing great and like you're very similar to me too!

My babies are now nearly 13 weeks but only 4lb at birth - I too tried Gina F then Baby Secrets from the first week and I would say the recommended 'awake' time is completely unrealistic. Mine would also just cry whilst awake - because they wanted to sleep!! When I let them sleep more in the day they actually slept better at night too.

I've stuck to the feeding together on routine and also the bed times and getting up at 7am and it works for me in terms of getting the feeds in during the day. I put them in their cot for afternoon nap and then am a bit more flexible with morning and teatime naps, just trying to make sure they're awake by 5pm - but they couldn't last from 5pm - 7pm at 6 weeks and would just cry.

We dropped the night feed last week after keeping stretching it over several weeks - now at 13 weeks and 11lb and 9lb they can now sleep from 11pm feed to 7am with maybe one wake up each where they are easily settled or need nappy change and then settle.

I worried that we didn't have any 'fun' time with them but now they're bigger I have more fun times when they're awake, reading, singing, a bit of playing with toys etc. I think you, like I was, are being very hard on yourself!

Take care, good luck xx

oh and also for me dummies are a god send - I felt guilty at first giving them dummies but if it stops them crying whilst you're feeding the other, or whilst they're awake then it can only be a good thing. Dummies also helped us to stretch the night feed longer.

Hope that helps x

Sorry - also the crying at 8.30am before nap, mine can barely last till 8.30am even now so perhaps they're overtired by then? Maybe let them take the lead a bit more about when they want to nap morning and teatime? X

Sparra - how did you stretch the night feed? We tried stretching from 2.30am to 2:45am but we've been witholding the food for that 15 mins for 2 weeks now and they still wake between 2 and 2.30am! Are they supposed to start waking up for the feed at 2:45am? Also even though they wake at 5am we are not feeding them until 6.30am and have been doing this for 4 weeks but they still wake at 5.30am on the dot every day!

Flippin just wrote a mamouth reply and then lost it!!!!!

afternoon nap time's nearly over, so to summarise what I had written -

I really like the baby secrets book but find the timings too gradual. I went from 3am feed straight to 4am, then about 4.30/5am then straight to 7am. It was such a difficult 3 weeks during which I did this as both babies took it in turns to wake up about 2 / 2.30am for about the first two weeks and I was really at the end of my resilience with lack of sleep. Then they've just stretched themselves longer and longer and at the same time when they do wake now, they're loads easier to re-settle with dummy or spaced soothing. If genuinely hungry I would feed before 7am but that has only happened once. Also they get less pooey nappies now so I only do nappy if really necessary as that seems to wake them more.

I did the same with day feeds, went from 3 hourly to 4 hourly all in one step, it was hard but only for a few days and worth it.

Before stretching to 7am I upped their day feeds 30ml so I knew they were getting what they needed during the day, again it took a week or so for them to start taking the new full amount.

It was a REALLY hard few weeks getting to where we are now but last night bigger twin slept through from 11pm feed until 7am and smaller one needed settling at 4am then nappy change about 5.30am.

Hope that helps, good luck!

I just read your post again - have you thought about stretching all your day feeds to 4 hours before thinking about stretching the night ones? Once they're used to having a 4 hour gap this may help?

remember the bit in the baby secrets book about their weight too and they're just not capable of sleeping for more than 3 or 4 hours when small so I'm sure they will become more able to do so as they get bigger - our bigger baby has always slept longer than the smaller one.

I'm no expert at all, it's all just trial and error really and it's easy to feel like you don't know what you're doing, I feel like that all the time!

Hope this helps X

Thanks for all these replies - they really do help. I've really tried stretching them from 1 or 2am to anything further but they just wake up at such random times. Sometimes as early as 1am and once a 3:10am (you have no idea how excited I was at the prospect that this meant it was working but unfortunately it was straight back to 1:15am the next 3 days!)

We have changed the daytime routine a little now to have 1 x 4 hour gap between 10 and 2 which they seem to just about be ok with and we're feeding them a top up of 60ml at 5pm to sort of get more in them before the bathtime feed at 6.15pm (the problem is they want more than this so cry until bathtime but if we give them more they then don't take enough at 6.15!). We tried 4 hours on the other times and they just scream and scream until feed time!

We have a new worry this week. They are 8 weeks tomorrow and as of just over a week ago the more contented baby has just screamed all day every day and won't settle at all and now the more fractious baby has got even more fractious! The midwife thinks it's colic which is all I need! We bought a swing to see if that will sooth him but it seems nothing will at the moment! I thought colic started way earlier than 7 weeks! We're using infacol, the doctor has ruled out reflux although I do think they are sick quite a lot.

Am dreading next week when hubbie is back at work already!! Eeek.

Hope you all had a lovely Christmas :)

x