newborn twins with 2 older dcs

[kingfix]

I'm expecting twins in April, when my other two children will be 4.5 and 22 months.

Lots of parents of twins and midwives have said we've got to get help or we'll 'never cope', particularly as I'd like to breastfeed if possible.

Now, ignoring the general doomy attitude that people seem to have towards twins, we just don't have much help available. We have a cleaner and I have friends who will help with the school run and have my eldest over to play, but that's it. The only person I know who bf'd twins and had older children also had a nanny, which we can't afford.

DH and I feel insanely cautiously optimistic, after all there is CBeebies and ready meals, but does anyone have any practical tips on getting through the early months, please?

Can only help from experience so I think everyones different - I have 1DC of 7 and twins of 4 so slightly different.
We found making things easier on ourselves - ie giving each other a lie in each at weekends, getting out for walk each day if poss! Not being too hard on yourself too - maybe seeing if your middle child could go to a nursery for a couple of mornings or mother and toddlers with you. Any twin groups are good and you may find that you get the offer of help via health visitor - I did and it did help.
Practically, we found that as they grew things like bathing took forever so every night not necessary, bringing travelcot down into lounge, feeding together in lounger chairs, laying them down on rug together until they start crawling - its safe and they can't fall off floor! It's the sleep deprivation thats the worst so any help even from family to stay is good.
I wish I'd relaxed more with them now I look back!
Hope this helps - you just have to do what works for you.

You'll cope ok during the day probably, it's the sleep deprivation that's the killer. You sound like you have a good positive attitude which will help, and if you can keep a sense of humour and a bit of prioritising the important stuff, and hang the rest, then you'll be fine.
However if you can get someone to come to stay with you for a week to help out at night - or look after the two older ones whilst you have a nap then all the better. I used to get my MIL round a couple of nights a week, and my own Mum came to help some weekends. And my SIL kindly came to stay for a week too. This help was mostly needed between 4-10 weeks, after that things are fine and we could cope as a family of 5.

Thanks for all these tips. GG I'm amazed and encouraged to hear that you could cope at 10 weeks, hope we can too.

I guess we'll just have to see how it goes but is there any preparation you'd recommend? We have done a few big batches of chilli etc for the freezer but that's it.

Hi Kingfix

My DS was 18 months when twin girls arrived, so not as many older kids as you but very small gap. Now DS almost 2, DDs almost 6 months, life is NUTS but we seem to have survived so far with no major trauma. I breastfed dds til 12 weeks then got v. ill for second time in two months so stopped - but know a woman who breastfed twins til 11 MONTHS with a 2 yr old and a 4 yr old, no nannies, so it is possible!

Ok here goes, tips:

• first and absolutely foremost, at the end of each day tell yourself "I made it through today and did absolutely the best I could"; list all possible positives, even like the sun shone for 10 minutes or I heard a nice song on the radio as twins screamed (!!). At beginning of each day, tell yourself "I CAN do this, there will be good moments, what can I look forward to?". This still absolutely helps me, I scoffed at the friend who suggested it but it changes perspectives amazingly.

• Get one of those twin breastfeeding cushions, EZ2 maybe they're called? Totally totally helped me.

• A book called "mothering multiples" I found useful, although a bit too feed-on-demand-mother-earthy sometimes it was kind and practical. Gina ford for twins terrified me and DDs would have none of it, but others swear by her methods, you decide..

• 2 Bean bags. If/when your twins get fed with a bottle, you put each one in a beanbag that moulds round them while you kneel between them. Or someone else does it while you sleep, if you are so lucky

• for the older ones: nice toys in a special box/ special treats / nice snacks / favourite cartoons on DVD for when you feed the twins. So feeding time becomes a treat for older siblings too. This did not (and still does not) prevent DS from climbing all over his sisters as they get fed, but it delays the onset of harrassment by 10 mins or so.

• an organisation called HomeStart - are they active in your area? Ask your health visitor - a volunteer comes to help out 2 hours a week and that isn't much but it is helpful and free!

• absolutely accept any any help with older kids or anything at all. My MIL offered to do our laundry, friends popped over to make us food, one neighbour wheels our bin out on bin day. MAny tiny things make life easier...

Hey, hope I don't sound too categorical or curt, as you can imagine computer time is very brief in this house - I wish you all all all the best and will be thinking of youse all!

PS a cleaner is an amazing start! Might take that tip from you and investigate options for us!

hi there...a couple of things to add to the already great advice above...

• check local further ed colleges to see if they do home placements on their childcare courses...they like families with twins as they get more hands on experience...we've got a girl coming in april for 2 days a week for a term, who can help in any way so long as it is to do with your children, so cooking meals, their washing, tidying their rooms etc as well as another pair of hands with the babies. you're not allowed to leave them on their own with children but it is completely free!

• a friend organised a rota of about 15 mums (i didn't even know some of them!) who each cooked a meal twice. we had a cooked meal as a family brought to us everyday for the first 5 weeks. the best present i think i've ever been given...

• my girls are 12 weeks and since day one they have slept with me in bed, either side on a pillow lined up and ready to latch on for when they wake for a feed. i'm probably making a rod for me own back and all that and sounding like a nutty earth mother BUT i haven't suffered the insanity of hideous sleep deprivation because i never have to get out of bed or properly wake up...it's all very peaceful. i'm knackered cos four kids is knackering but i'm sane (just) and it helps.

and you're right - be optimistic - the doom mongerers (and i was one myself pre twins!) haven't got a clue how amazing it can be...

good luck!

I have 4 kids too - Son of (almost) 6, daughter of 3.5 and twins of 6 months. We have no family near us, my son started school 3 days before the twins were born, I had an emergency section and we live in a rural town where it is necessary to drive to be able to get to school and shops etc...

My aunt came and stayed with us Mon-Fri for the first 4 weeks. To be honest, we couldn't have coped without her, but that was because of our specific circumstances - I was in hospital for 5 days, the twins then had to stay in for a further 10 days in NN, we live a half hour drive from the hospital (on a good day) and even when we all got home, I still couldn't drive as I was recovering from the section.

I was driving at 3.5 weeks though and so my aunt stopped coming up (she lives a 4.5 hour drive away) and we coped on our own. My son has always got to school on time, with a clean uniform on and with his homework done. I can honestly say this is one of my proudest achievements!!!

So what helped us...? We had friends who cooked meals for us for the first few weeks. (actually my aunt cooked while she was here and then we used the meals people had made us after she's gone) I also had cooked chilli, spag bol, chicken stew, soup etc... and filled the freezer to the brim!!!

I also stocked up on essentials before the birth because our Tesco only has 2 double baby seat trolleys and they are more often than not hidden at the back behind 50 other trolleys and so I usually just put the girls in the buggy to shop, but obviously that means I can only pick up a small amount of stuff. It makes shopping hard and I have now given in and started used Tesco Home Delivery. We stocked up on things like kitchen roll, sandwich bags, loo roll etc... as well as staple food and baby items. Dashing out the shops for 1 or 2 things becomes a big deal with 4 kids so I loved not having to do it.

Having a positive attitude is probably the best you can do for yourself. I was also told I wouldn't cope and would need help etc... but do you know what - you do cope - because you have to! If I hadn't have had a section and the girls hadn't have been in NN, we could have coped without my aunt. It was great she was able to help us, but in different circumstances we'd have been OK on our own. If you believe you can do it, take each day as a fresh start and learn the mantra "This too shall pass", you'll be fine!!!

I would also say that with 4 kids and no help that a routine is a must! I know that for some people that's just a big no-no, but I have found that if I didn't have a routine then my son would never get to school on time, my daughter would never get to her gym class and no-one would ever get fed!!! I used GF, but adapted it to suit me.

My girls are FF because they have a dairy intolerence so are on prescribed formula. I had intended to mix-feed though and I fully believe it would have been possible!

Just re-read my message - SORRY it's so long and wordy!!! Just rambling quickly while the girlies were snoozing! They are now awake and rolling around on the floor chatting and grinning to each other - having twins is so much fun!!! You need to hold on to these really special moments and allow yourself to feel very smug that parents of singletons don't get them!!!

Thanks so much for all these ideas, it is such a confidence booster to hear how well you have all managed.

I keep looking forward to when we're all settled into our new life and are a big tumbling happy family. (Let's treat this as positive thinking and not delusional madness for now.)

I can't type tonnes as on my phone but I'm pregnant with boy twins expected anytime but due in may, I also have twin girls who are 2.5 and I also have a almost 4 year oldboy!!

I found last time the key to things is routine, routine and erm routine lol. Yes it's hard, yes it's tiring but it's so rewarding when you realise things are slightly easier.

Oh, and I forgot to say, I actually think the jump from no children to 1 child is harder than from 1 to 3. At least you are comfortable with a baby, and have the benefit of experience. Hats off to mums who have twins as their first children - that really is difficult.

I am going to write my experience without reference to what other posters have written, so I apologise if there is any duplication, but i have to try and be super quick.

My twins are 14 months now, still breast fed, and I have two others who were only 4 months older than yours when mine were born.

I found dealing with the 2 year old trickiest as she was still needy and demanding but too young to be going round to other people's houses to play. Offering to have the oldest was great but in actual fact she was the least 'bother'.

I think how the breastfeeding goes will obviously depend on how each baby takes to it and if they are early which will have extra issues. How you manage with the older children and the babies is as much to do with how chilled the twins are too. I have always had 'high need'(!) babies, who just want to be held and won't sleep if not close to me and for that reason I suffered more than the breastfeeding alone. There was a very clear and noticeable change in them both at 3 months and 1 week, when they suddenly were able to sit on their own and not get really fretful if they were in their bouncy chair, and that was a massively significant milestone for us.

You say you can't get much help, which makes me wonder if you are in a rural location. I was only talking to my partner last night, reviewing the past year and I said that I regret not having more intensive help for longer really. There was a lot of crying in those first 3 months (theirs, I mean). If your two year old is potty trained you will have to wipe bottoms, I think if they are in nappies it wouldn't be too bad. I remember trying to hold two babies onto each breast with a knee and also reaching over to wipe dd2's bum. Then having to sit in the smell of a fug of poo as the babies continued their breastfeed and the potty remained unemptied.

What did I do that I think I did right? (Note that dd1 isn't mentioned here, because she was at school until 3pm).

• I hired a girl from a local university to come every night between 4 and 7pm to help. My dp doesn't get home till late, so her coming meant that if ever I was struggling i knew that she was going to swoop in and hold a baby/clear the mess/be bloody invaluable. This would be my one KEY bit of advice as that is the meltdown time for everyone and the common cluster feeding time.
• I put dd2 in to a childminder for 3 days a week. I wished I hadn't had to, but I think it was best to make sure she was getting some stimulation. Cbeebies is brilliant, but they do still get bored and it could just be another layer of guilt to lay on you.
• When I did have dd2 at home, I would have a mum friend date arranged, or have a fixed 'safe' location arranged for every morning. By safe I would mean somewhere easy to get to, with helpful other adults that would hold a baby, where I felt comfortable to breastfeed in, where dd2 didn't need to much help from me. No thinking on the spur of the moment, just 'it's Thursday, so we are going to xxx'.
• If your dc2 is still having a lunchtime nap then that is brilliant. Mine would only at that stage sleep if I slept with her, so she came into my bed and lay next to me while I feed both babes and then I lay down with them and we had a blissful couple of hours...that was a lovely time, seeing them all lying around me.
• When out I always made sure I could get out quickly should we have a melt down as I hated all the pitying glances. If I was at the park with them I had to have the car parked nearby as I just wouldn't/couldn't feed them both outside. I had cushions in the car so if we were caught in 2 starving babies emergency I could do it in there if push came to shove.

I have to go now, as I haven't even time to proof read this. I'll post back if I think of other things.

There is a yahoo group called apmultiples I think. It gives some good btdt advice for multiples, even if you aren't into attachment parenting.

Gotta go, sorry. Will come back with more. you can do it though.

Thanks, it's great to have some practical ideas.
I think those early evening hours are likely to be the hardest, it's bad enough on your own with two tired and hungry children. I wonder if I can find a nice capable teenager somewhere

I had twins when my dds were 3 and 5.

I would second what kingfix said about getting on the ap multiples mailing list.

Even if you aren't into attachment parenting, just getting emails from others in a similar situation was brilliant for realising that you aren't alone, and practical tips for getting through the day.

Also, get an Ergo or similar, so you can carry one on your back, thus having hands free for other baby/older children.

Good luck!

Mine were about 3 and 5 aswell when we had DTs. It was fine apart from the sleep deprivation as DH was often working away so I was on my own and had a terrible birth to get over. I managed to breastfeed for 5-6 weeks but it was just too much. They slept through about 8-12 weeks and things got so much easier then. It was doing the trips to nursery/school 3 times a day that was the killer with feeds etc. However it is doable but I would take as much help as is offered, especially for housework etc.

We had second set of twins last September, when first set were just 3. We are still in the middle of it, so I wouldn't swear by the following, but they seem to be helping:

• prioritise. Our priorities were 1. everyone gets fed 2. no one gets ill 3. everyone gets some sleep 4. nothing else matters
• keep older children occupied and entertained no matter what. TV, stories, games, construction toys, sunny days for playing outside and trips with the parent not looking after babies have all helped. If you're not doing a good job, older DCs will soon let you know . This has been a much bigger challenge than the "practical" stuff like cleaning/cooking etc. which always seems to sort itself out (and low standards help)
• take help wherever you can get it. Key from our point of view was upping older DTs hours at nursery;
• don't look too far ahead or it can all feel overwhelming. Every day completed is a victory!
• make time to have some time/fun as an individual/couple, or the psychiatric ward beckons.

When are you due kingfix?

Hello, sorry not to have kept up. I'm 34 weeks now, due for an induction at the start of May if they don't come before.

We've booked a couple of students from the nearby college to come and help with tea times.

My eldest DD is spending quite a lot of time with friends after school, but I think she's beginning to feel pushed out a bit as this morning she said 'I just want to be with you Mummy'.

I'm lurking on the life with twins thread to get an idea of what's to come!
Thanks for your help.

something no-one has mentioned....a place for your husband to sleep (camp bed etc in living room) so that one of you can get a good night's sleep whilst babies are in worst sleep mode
changing stations both upstairs and downstairs, it's worth buying hideous changing tables with all extras just to get through all the changes.
very comfortable feeding station with cushions under arms when you are feeding twins, snacks for you, phone etc...

if you don't rest you won't get through the first few weeks of breastfeeding, be warned
no routines, just feed on demand in first few weeks, and expect to feed more often than a singleton even after that. It's worth it for the settling power, and not having to make up lots of formula.
It doesn't matter if you give some formula to help you get through, but bottle feeding two babies is more difficult than breastfeeding two babies at once, especially when you are out and about.
Food, give up all fancy meals, make meals reheatable, so you can cook at beginning of day when you are less exhausted. Never cook for visitors. Make sure they bring food for you, and cook it too!!

Another pair of hands is always indispensable with babies. Babies just need someone to pick them up.

Get a very comfortable twin buggy.

How are you going to transport toddler at same time as twins? I didn't sort out this, blindly trusting in sling, when I should have thought of some sort of third seat solution..

We also did a lot of co-sleeping (make sure you have two duvets not one kingsize) so babies not overheated.

Declutter house before twins come
reduce clothes to easy minimum, no fancy outfits
no ironing ever...[again]

To me another invaluable aid to twin survival was persuading twins to nap in their cots from 3 months. I didn't mind what they did in morning (nap in buggy etc), but AFTERNOON NAP IN cots was sacrosanct and kept me sane. It meant I didn't visit people between 2 and 4.

Well done for ignoring the doom and gloom attitude.

There is plenty of support out there for mums breastfeeding twins. Here is a MNer who is a Lactation Consultant and mum of twins (plus one older DS)

Look for good support and advice. You'll do fine. I had no help and three older DC when my DTs were born. My cleaner was my lifesaver. Everything else could wait.

Mars.............we miss you, pop over sometime please, we have cake:)