a question for muslim mums and other mums xx

[nikcola]

dp is muslim (pakistani) im english and we have a 3yo dd,
my moms friend bought dd a piglet pilow/pajamma case and dp has gone mad saying that if he sees her play with it or any of his family see it then he will throw it away me dd have never eaten pork (not for 6 years) but surellly a teddy bear doesnt matter , what do you think is he being unreasnable or am i

um a marriage is a marriage isn't it?

I think a religious marriage in any country is recognised?

and didn't he marry her with the intention of her coming over here? if so, then it must be legally recognised?

I might be completely wrong ..

and btw I think he's being over-the-top but hypocritical reactions can be innate and a product of upbringing so he probably can't help it

no hes never weanted her to come over here his family did but shes not coming here they have accepted that now x

Nikcola, he is commiting far worse sins in the eyes of Islam than having a picture of a pig on a toy.

u try telling him that !

I was going out with a muslim years ago

He told me he could have 4 wives but if he did he had to treat them all the same.

Rules may have changed now that was 16 years ago and we were in canada, but he was from middle east not canadian.

Actually, do think even pig toys are completely unaccaptable for Muslims. I ead that pigs are very dirty, "eat their own excrements "etc.
As regards dp treatingy you "unmuslim" like etc is a different issue.
And a "proper" religious marriage in Pakistan should be recognised here (have lot of friends like that.)

I think it is slightly extreme. My husband is a Muslim and most definitely wont eat anything containing pork but on a recent trip to a farm delighted in showing our son the pigs. Our son also has a plate with a cow and a pig on it, this does not offend my husband.

The Muslim half of DP's family would not actually go out and buy a toy pig because they would find it repellent and yukky rather than cuddly. I imagine it must feel a bit like me buying a cuddly tapeworm toy. And in the zoo, everyone kept well back from the wild boar pen, with a sort of 'eeeurgh' look on their face.

But given his general demeanor, I think your DP is being a bit OTT, Nik!

i think it depends on whether you are bringing up your ds as a muslim or not. i assume you are not, therefore its him who is sleeping on the piglet pillow case not his dad.

Just to add another dimension (I am a VERY non-practising Muslim, i.e. from a very secular background). I eat pork and drink alcohol with much relish !

Pigs, pork, bacon, pictures of pigs, etc. is a very interesting issue. Firstly, anything derived from a pig is not just disgusting to Muslims. They are also disgusting to Jewish people, especially those that are more orthodoox.

Therefore this is not just an issue for Muslims. However, having had many "secular" Jewish and Muslim friends, I have found that even though they ignore many aspects of their religion, pigs and pork seems to be a very sore point, i.e they may drink alcohol (my Muslim friends) never go to a Synagogue (my Jewish friends - except for weddings and funerals) but will absolutely REFUSE to eat pork, or even touch it !

I think it has alot to do with the way Muslims and Jews are "conditioned" as children that pigs are absolutely filthy. By the way many Muslims also hate dogs and consider them as dirty and will never keep a dog as a pet.

I hope this has been a helpful contribution .

There are also Muslims who are totally secular, like myself and my family. We drink alcohol, eat pork and do all sorts of "un-Islamic thigs". Of course this attitude exists in all religions. There are "secularists" in all relgions, i.e. those that are born into a certain religion, but do not actually practice it and, indeed, find much of their own religion objectionable. This type ignore almost everything their relgion tells them to do, including disliking pigs . I love little pigglets. They are so cute !

.

Karaj - actually, although you are right about Jewish people not eating pork, as a Jew I have never known a pig itself to cause offence, ie. it would be unheard of (even in orthodox families) to disallow a soft Piglet toy!

Newyearmum - like your Jewish friends, none of my Muslim friends would ban a toy pig either.

There are different kinds of Muslims and there are different kinds of Muslim countries. In the country I come from (which has a stricly Muslim Govt.) toy pigs, pictures of pigs are freely available in toy shops. No child would ever be told he can't have a toy pig. He may be told not to eat pork, as his religions tells him that eating pork is unhealthy, but he CAN most certainly have a toy pig.

As I have tried to indicate in this discussion, there many different kinds of Muslims, as there are many different kinds of Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, aethesists, etc. No two Muslims have the exact same beliefs. There are many generalisations made about Muslims and what they believe in , unfortunately many totally fabricated and based on prejudice.

I did not wish a toy pig issue to become another one of those issues where people would automatically think, "Ah, it's true then, ALL Muslims are fanatics, they even ban toy pigs". That would only create more prejudice, even on a very good website like this where people are relatively open-minded.

one of my dh theories about many muslims drinking alcohol but not eating pork, is that it wouldn't make that much of a difference not eating pork (lots of other kind of meat available) but it would be a pity to not to drink alcohol....
dh was brought up in a muslim country but the more he thought about it the less he believed in it (not at all)

Well, my entire family are Muslim including myself and when dd was born, I had wanted to get a winnie the pooh cotsheet set and bathtub and everything but my mother and DH freaked out because of piglet!! so i ended up scouring all the shops for a winnie set that didnt have piglet!!!

I'm not certain, but I think the belief is that angels won't come and visit/bless the baby at night if there's images of forbidden things like pigs on the baby's cot!!!!!

Having said that my (also muslim) brother-in-law happily got a winnie the pooh bathtub for his dd which had a piglet on it and no one batted an eyelid. albeit his wife is german and she may not know abt the pig controversy!!

I've also gotten my dd other little winnie toys which inadvertantly have piglets all over them, but which seem to have slipped my mother and DH's attention. and pictures of pigs and visits to zoos etc are educational, no?
altho i may draw the line at having a huge stuffed pig on her bed but little piglets holding hands with winnie seems fine to me. anyways, it doesnt even really look like a pig?!!

your dp should focus on the un-Islamic way in which he is treating you and your dd rather than some silly piglet pillowcase. he needs to sort out his priorities. sorry if i'm assuming too much.

lailag,i may be wrong, but i think one of the reasons why SOME (not all) muslims (well malaysian muslims ime anyway) may feel happier about drinking alcohol compared to eating pork is because of the reasons behind why the two are prohibited. it's two totally different reasons. alcohol is prohibited because it has a bad effect on you. it makes people drunk and do things beyond their control, causes loss of senses etc. but pork is prohibited because it's dirty and muslims are brought up to be careful about tainting their bodies.Muslims are brought up to see pigs as being repellant and yukky to quote Blu who posted earlier. But not alcohol.I mean, alcohol is 'bad' for you..but it's not considered dirty to touch whereas if you touch a pig or pork or bacon then you'd have to perform ablutions (wash yourself 7 times including once with mud but thats a different thread altogether..) so obviously you wouldnt want to eat pork cos how do u flush water and mud through your digestive tract eh?
have i added to the already confusing controversy here...sorry

Some Jewish groups object to pig toys, too: here . Not most, by any means, but still.

hazlinh, I am sure you are right. My dh was, as mentioned, brought up as muslim in a muslim country. At a student(...) he was "involved" in all kind of discussions. At the time he tried to understand the reason behind the reason behind the reason...
Like why are "pigs dirty". Obviously the fact that pork meat can contain "deadly" worms my be a reason, but he tried to think of other reason as well, just for the arguments sake I think.....

Kids play with lots of things that you wouldn't eat. I'm sure lots of toy zoo animals would not be kosher if eaten - but can still be played with!

But, Karaj's point is v important - not to get hung up on the odd zealot!

Nik - what DID happen with the pyjama case?

we had an argument blu and i ended up chucking the pillow

hi, havent read the whole of this thread.
but, ima a muslim, and my dd had a little piglet sleepsuit which she wore a lot and she looked lovely in it.
pigs are only one type of amimal forbidden to eat. snakes, lions and tigers are also nonos. but youdont see anyone making a fuss about them do you? tell him to read the Quran and Sahih Bukhari to clarify his beliefs which are traditional, not religious.

and marriage is marriage. dont believe any crap about it not being recognised in this country. ask the registrar if you dont believe me, (the one who recoords deaths, births and marriages) THEY will recognise it, even if he doesnt want them to.
men arre such gits.

oh, and my ds1 had winnie the pooh stuff for his nursery. from cot bedding to bathtub to changing mat.
people get uptight about the most stupid of reasons. tell your dh that extra marital sex,(him) carries a punishment of death, but a wiinnie the pooh toy isnt even frowned on. he needs to get his act together. people like him give islam a bad name

This is a very timely thread...

Some of the Muslim mums might remember that my DS1's best friend at school is Muslim. My guess is that his family must be pretty observant as his mum covers her whole head and face when out and about.

Anyway, DS1's friend came round to play yesterday and (as is usual) my DH sent some crisps and sweets home with him - and then we realised to our utter horror that the sweets he'd sent were (this is really awful) Percy PIG!!! sweets from M&S - and they had gelatine in them to boot!!!

DH and I felt really terrible, but he apologised to the otehr boy's mother at schhool today and she didn't seem too upset about it. Phew!

Just out of interest - is chocolate usually acceptable? And is it possible to get halal sweets?

Dino anything edible which is suitable for vegetarians is fine for muslims to eat too.
You do get halal sweets, but I've only very rarely seen them in the UK. It was very sweet of your dh to apologise for the mistake, I dont get upset by these things it wasn't done maliciously.

hi
chocolate is absolutely fine. its the gelatine in sweets that may be a problem as its not that easy to know if it is beef gelatin or pig. also, whilst some people are very strict about halal and non halal, others arent.
i dont think you should worry to much, though it is very considerate of you. most people just tell their kids no types of jelly sweets like haribo. but boiled sweets should be fine.
hth

fuzzywuzzy that's really reassuring

DS1 and this boy are very close mates and we'd be livid with ourselves if we mucked that up. Not to mention the fact that I genuinely don't want to cause offence either.