Are mixed race people black??

[franch]

Great article in Feb Good Housekeeping celebrating 20 "black and Asian" women who are "changing the face of Britain". However, included in the list are at least 2 mixed-race women: Kelly Holmes and Zadie Smith. I'm not arguing with these women's achievements, but surely it would've been simple enough to call it a list of "black, Asian and mixed-race" women??? Would these 2 have been included in a list of white women, as they are both 50% white?

As the white mother of a mixed-race woman (albeit only 1 year old!), it makes me feel irrelevant. And I also feel DD is missing out on having inspirational role-models identified for her.

Help me write a letter to GH about this. What points should I cover? Also, for reference, here is the rest of the list - I may have missed some others who are also mixed race:

Meera Syal
Baroness Valerie Amos
Kelly Holmes
Parween Warsi
Baroness Patricia Scotland
Gurinder Chadha
Yasin Alibhai-Brown
Doreen Lawrence
Zeinab Badawi
Shami Chakrabarti
Vanessa Mae
Trisha Goddard
Pinky Lilani
Denise Lewis
Serena Rees
Tessa Sanderson
Reeta Chakrabarti
Zaiba Malik
Zadie Smith
Baroness Flather

Ones to watch:
Parminder Nagra
Jamelia
Ruzwana Bashir
Mishal Husain
Nina Wadia

But if it really is so unPC surely they couldn't be heard referring to themselves and other mixed race people with that term????

I think it has to be accepted as people have said that it is how you view yourself. In reference to the word nigger a white person calling a black person that would be being offensive, but some young black men often refer to each other in that way.

Also the term mixed race has always been seen to talk about a 50/50 black/white mix, when in factual terms many people are mixed race.

Also to those Mums who say that their children would be denying them if they refer to themselves as black, surely that is an issue on your part and would surely add to their confusion, isn't it more important that they find a term that they are happy with, as it is them that have to live with it.

Just wanted to say how fascinating I find this thread, I don't have anything to contribute really, although my son is a mix of British Indian(ex)/British white (me) and on forms there doesn't ever seem to be a tick box for that, it's usually British/Asian. As someone whose Indian ex MIL objected to being called asian (as she pointed out, it's a big continent!) I would prefer having a correct box to tick. But I rarely have to find a term for what ds is and end up saying 'he's half Indian' or 'his father's Indian' to explain. How we describe people and their origins is fascinating I think.

Lockets, are you half italian, half british, and white? cos if I was half Italian I would probably refer to myself as mixed-nationality or mixed-culture, since racially Italians are caucasian.

Ooops, that is white Italians are caucasian.

Gwenick, I think it is about taking 'ownership' of a previously derogatory term. as far as I am aware the argument that black Americans use for using the N word is that they are taking ownership of it back from those you had used it against black people. If a black person uses it then it is accepted that they are not using it as a racist term against other black people but if a non-black person uses it, it is not clear whether they are using it as a derogatory term or as a 'giving ownership to black people' term so until ownership is well and truly with black people, the safest, most sensitive thing would be not to use it unless you are black yourself.

If the same argument applies to ther term 'coloured' in Southern Africa, then your husband and children would be okay to use it but if you used with an audience who did not know your family, there may be offence taken because your audience won't know whether you are using it in the old, derogatory manner or as a way of claiming ownership of the term to your family. Not sure if I make sense there but am trying!

On a tangent, the swastika is a very traditional Indian symbol and many Indians in this country still use it privately (religious decorations and ceremonies) but are sensitive about it being misinterpretated as a purely Nazi symbol and therefore, would not use it publicly. There is an item on the BBC website about the origins of the symbol here for anyone who is interested.

Blimey girls. You got deep! What a fascinating thread. I have to say, and it may offend, that I call my children mixed-race and see them as black. DT2 is currently the "whitest" of my children and DS1 is the "blackest" (all of mine darken up by the time they reach 18 months). I don't feel that it denies their father, in fact he recognises that in the world's eyes they are black and that they will face discrimination in a way that he never will. He encourages the children to be proud of themselves and to look to black (incl. mixed race) role models. We tell them that they have the best of both worlds. It will be interesting to see how they refer to themselves as they grow. I know that it is important for me that my sons have good strong role models. Good men, black and white are talked about in our household, for the fact that they are good men. However, (oh boy!) we make a point of talking about "black" men. We know the statistics of failing black men and they come in many degrees of colour. For DD1s senior school (she is Y5 now and so has 1.5years of primary school left) we are looking for a school with a good cross-cultural mix. We want her to mix with women of colour (all colours). I have started to take her to In Celebration of my Sistas which is an evening with women of colour at the Royal Festival Hall in March. We live in a predominately white area and so it is important for us that she goes to school with a good mix of girls (and no, I have no intention of moving, I love the green space too much and we are all rooted here).

Isn't it awful that we have to be so concerned with terms to describe ourselves and our children instead of just accepting that we are so blessed to live in a multicoloured rather than monotone world?

I have several friends who are in mixed marriages, all of them refer to their children as coffee with cream Therefore, leaving it up to the children to define themselves when they get older.

I like coffee with cream. Such a lovely image.

Does nobody use the word half-caste anymore? or is it not pc?

This will sound AWFUL I know - but it's not as bad as it 'sounds' if you know what I mean.

When DH and I first got together - I spent the 1st 6 months of our engagment talking him round to having kids - SOON (ie honeymoon baby LOL). ONce he came round to the idea we were really excited about having our little 'coffee' children!

I don't think half-caste is very PC - and it's one term I've never considered describing my children as.

What a fascinating thread!
I guess I was brought up in a "colourless" world i.e. I have never felt disadvantaged nor do I consider myself a minority because of my ethnic origin. Frankly, skin colour is something that doesn't really register with me - and that probably sounds funny to some people. I think ultimately as long as kids are raised with a strong sense of self, any barriers (real or otherwise) will not be an issue. One of my biggest bug-bears is the idea of "Positive discrimination". In my opinion, discrimination can never be positive and it only serves to reinforce people's "minority" status.

On the issue of the term "coloured", has anyone seen this poem?

Being Colored:
When I was born...I was BLACK.
When I grew up...I was BLACK.
When I am sick...I am BLACK
When I go out in the sun...I am BLACK.
When I go out in the cold...I am BLACK.
When I die...I am BLACK.

BUT YOU WHITE FOLK :
When you are born...You are PINK.
When you grow up...You are PEACH.
When you are sick...You are GREEN.
When you go out in the cold...You are BLUE.
When you are scared... You are WHITE.
When you go out in the sun...You are RED.
When you die...You turn PURPLE.

And you have the nerve to call me "COLORED"!

I guess my point is, we're all coloured!

I very, very, much dislike the term 1/2 caste.

Because:

1. It uses measurement - who knows if we're 0.25 or 0.5 mixed?

2. I think it's probably a left over term from slavery.

3. I feel it uses connotations from the caste system, where it is assumed one 'half' is superior to the other.

I'm soooooooo glad it's become outdated.

4. It sure don't sound nice.

Must admit, MTMML, I agree with you to a certain extent.

Am very aware that society will percive my children as 'Black' and they will be treated as such, but I don't seem them as solely 'Black' hence my need to reinforce that.

However, when naming my children, I have tried to pick names to which they have a 'link', ie DS' name is historically a White, Scottish name, but it was my grandad's nickname, so there is the 'Black' link. Also, with the one in utero - the name I have picked is the name of a famous Black musician/singer, but it is a White European name, historically.

I don't know, maybe I am anal, but identity is something I feel very strongly about - especially if it can affect they way you see 'yourself'.

BTW, MTMML, do you DS's go to any organisations, such as the one your daughter goes to? Am very interested in that sort of thing.

poshpaws, it's not an organisation that DD1 goes to. It's a big event that happens once a year in London and Birmingham. It's now in it's seventh year and last year was the only one that I didn't go to as I had just had the DTs. I'm about to start taking DS1 as well so that he can see how wonderful and diverse women of colour can be. It's a fun evening and men, women, black, white and indifferent attend.

Fab.

At the mixed race meetup (should it take place ), I shall grill you for further details

Fair enough! this is a quick outline of evening

Have been looking for that poem everywhere! I am mixed race and I to hate the term 1/2 caste! I see myself as black because I was bought up in a white area and was never seen as anything but!;)

Whereas I see myself as white, because that's how everyone treats me

Really...........that's strange. I guess it's how your bought up.

GM, it's because I look totally white. Utterly, cliched, fair-hair-red-skin-green-eyes white. Shockingly white.

i'm the opostite! Some people don't realise I am mixed. I have honey coloured skin and black curly afro hair! Maybe that's why I am seen as black!

i have come across this dialog and found it very interesting,i am Coloured,goffal zimbabwean,i will tell you that we a proud to call our selves coloureds it is no longer a name people will cringe when they hear and the name goffal may offend some but not all,we have our own traditions and everyone know each other in our community,of course this creates problems sometimes because other want to be above the rest instead of sticking together.i personally think we are now a race on it's own as my parent are both coloured and their parents before then,the point where black and white mixed is now far behind it goes back to my great grandparents parents,some people may disagree but we all have our own thoughts.when i fill out a form that requests my ethnic race i am classed as OTHER,when black and white mix their child will not be called coloured but Mixed race,when a mixed race couple have a child is when you call that child Coloured

Hi kisha, I am aware of the word goffal and wondered where it came from, I am from Zambia.