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Multicultural families

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Original poster

First racist comment - do you have zero tolerance or let some go for an easy life?

36 replies

bahKewcHumbug · 30/12/2007 22:51

Was out with DS and rest of the family on Boxing Day down in brighton. DS (2) being his usual charming self and sayng "bye-bye" and waving at everyone he meets. Group of drunk but jolly men walking down road, one says something along the lines of "hello happy litle fella" and his mate says "hello littel chink".

I was so startled I was at a loss to know what to say and realised that I need to prepare for this a bit better for the future as I doubt it will be the last comment . I could hear his friend (who could see I had heard and was shocked) telling him off and just decided to walk away.

Those with older children - do you have zero tolerance to all remarks you think are racist or do you let the "smaller" go. I don't want to let DS (when he's aware of whats going on) to think I believe any remarks like this are justified but I also don;t want him to be embarrassed by me making a scene when it happens.

Advice from older and wiser hands required...

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Original poster
bahKewcHumbug · 30/12/2007 23:00

and am I wierd to have felt like shouting "HE'S NOT BLOODY CHINESE HE'S KAZAKH YOU IGNORANT YOB"... like that somehow made a difference

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Cashncarry · 30/12/2007 23:02

Sorry but I'm LOLing at your last comment - you definitely should have shouted that

I would say zero tolerance definitely - often wish that I'd stuck up for myself as a child but was told by my mother to "rise above" "turn the other cheek" etc. I don't tolerate it now and wouldn't for my DD (mixed race) but then I'm a bit PC like that

revgreen · 30/12/2007 23:11

I would go for easy life with strangers at this stage tbh. Chink is not to bad compared with stuff I've had. I'm not comfortable with it but frankly you are not in a position to defend yourself against drunk men in the street. I have called the police over a big incident but go no help as their is no such thing as racism against chinese, apparently. Can't believe that that was your first comment tbh. Your ds will learn that some people view the world through a narrow tunnel and he will be thankful that he is not one of those people.
Its the comment from people I know that bother me most.

Lots of people don't think chink is a racist word. I don't know why that is.

Cashncarry · 30/12/2007 23:23

Revgreen - have you had comments earlier than 2 years then

There was a thread on MN a while back where people were insisting that particular word was not racist I think you're probably right that it's not good to confront a bunch of drunk men but it is heartening that even in that state, one of them had the good grace to tell the other off.

myrrhthamoo · 30/12/2007 23:32

Yes, sadly, I agree that tackling a bunch of drunk blokes is probably not a wise move. But, blimey, I'd like to have punched him in the face, the pig ignorant bugger

GloriaInEleusis · 30/12/2007 23:33

Sorry, Kew.

But I must admit rationalising with a drunk is never productive.

I think when your DS is old enough to understand the insult, then it's time to for him to see you stand up and say something. (not that I have any experience on the matter so am perhaps not qualified to give advice... should I shut up now?)

revgreen · 30/12/2007 23:35

I have had a lot of comments but mainly from 2 people. 1 was a neighbour of my sis who was a stereotypical racist and used to rant at his dp about how muslims should be killed etc as well as shouting at my ds and my sis dd. they were babes in arms when it started and it went on until my sis moved when my ds was almost 2. We didn't let them play in the garden in case their first words were racist rantings.

The 2nd was a women a toddler group who was tres subtle about it (or so she thought) but she doesn't go anymore as she has ishoos with so many people there.

I think if it hadn't been for these 2 individuals, I would have only had a few comments, but def before 2 years.

themoon66 · 30/12/2007 23:38

I wouldn't say anything to a group of drunken louts in the street. Wouldn't want aggresive showdown in front of DCs.

Am shocked at it happening in Brighton though.

revgreen · 30/12/2007 23:40

I hate to break it to you Kew but chink isn't exclusively chinese. It generously includes everyone who's eyes are like chinks, including kazakhs. I don't have a better put down though.

frostythesnowmum · 30/12/2007 23:59

Easy life - some people are just ignorant and don't even realise their "funny" comments are hurtful or insulting. Don't make a big deal of it for the sake of your little one. He will come accross far worse in life and you don't want him to feel like he has to fight all the time.
A friend of mine had a chinese girlfriend and walked into a pub and one of his friends shouted out "a chicken fried rice and a carton of curry please!" my friend reacted and within minutes there was a bar brawl which ended with some people hurt and the police involved. The chinese girlfriend dumped my friend has she found his violent reaction more repulsive than the original racist comment. She prefered to handle such situations with dignity and not react as to do so lowered her to her abusers level and she was not willing to do that. I really liked her style, life is too short and there are more important things to do with your time than argue with ignorant tossers.

candypandy · 31/12/2007 00:11

I would say to any child from the get-go that they shouldn't say those things. Not a lecture they don't understand, but a response to a particular comment -- that's not on and it's not nice. My parents did it to me and I thank them for it.

Original poster
bahKewcHumbug · 31/12/2007 13:27

revgreen - yes I understand that most people don;t have enough experience of asian/oriental features to tell the difference between races (and Kazakhs aren;t exactly thin on the ground in the UK!) - which is why I knew my thought was completely irrational.

I was just so shocked at a comment to such a small happy boy. I need to practice what to reply and find something to say that makes clear my views without making it into a fuss.

I thought for a while just saying to DS "come away from the nasty man" would suffice for the time being?

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Dottydot · 31/12/2007 13:32

Oh Kew I agree it's good to think about being prepared for when this does happen again. Tricky though...

I think just saying out loud - even if only you and ds can hear it - something "what a silly man". Seems a bit useless, but you've commented and your ds will get to understand that it's not right.

We're steeling ourselves for when something similar happens when we're out and about with ds's... Lots of ad hoc little talks take place in our house about different family make ups etc. Hoping that some of it sinks in and makes ds's feel OK/proud of who they are and their family!

ruty · 31/12/2007 13:37

how depressing that anyone should say this to a little boy in this day and age. I agree no point trying to make it an issue with drunken louts, and at least his friend saw sense. Presumably the best way as your little boy gets older is to teach him that anyone capable of any kind of racist slur is an idiot.
CashnCarry, if that is the thread I'm thinking about [the Jade goody racism thread?] there was one person who thought it acceptable to get call someone a 'Chinky' and get a 'Chinky' takeaway, and the rest of the posters were pretty incredulous that she thought it acceptable. But I may be thinking of a different thread.

Original poster
bahKewcHumbug · 31/12/2007 14:10

Dotty - there's a mnemonic WISE up which is often used for adoptees in multicultural familes for older children. It might work quite well with your boys. I think there's a book on it.

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Original poster
bahKewcHumbug · 31/12/2007 14:13

"Children sometimes find themselves in awkward situations with their peers or even with insensitive adults, when issues of personal history arise. W.I.S.E. Up! provides the answer. This book teaches children (and their parents, too) how to manage intrusive questions about adoption and a child's background. Four types of responses, from walking away to educating the questioner, are presented for the child's consideration. Through role play and examples, it encourages the child to make his/her own decision about how to respond. It empowers them! A terrific book for children aged 6 to 16 !!"

google adoption wise up or look in amazon...

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missorinoco · 31/12/2007 14:16

agree best not to argue with a drunken idiot. think you did the right thing.

i am mixed race, trying to remember what my mum did. i think belittling the other person to him as dottydot said would work quite well, because it would just discredit the comment without making a big deal of it.

something like "come away from the silly man" maybe, so the racist idiot doesn't even get the power of being nasty, just pathetic.

Dottydot · 31/12/2007 14:18

Thanks Kew - will have a look.

Yes, and agree that 'nasty' is possibly too strong/emotive a word to use. 'Silly' belittles and reduces what he's said to something that's so ridiculous it's not worth bothering with.

VictorianSqualor · 31/12/2007 14:25

I have no experience with racism, except for my step-dad being a racist prick.

But I have found if anyone ever makes remarks I don't like the best way to shut them up, and make your children realise what idiots they are is to comment on their intelligence.

At two I doubt your DS is old enough to be aware, but if you start putting into his head now that racists are dumb he will grow up with that thought and hopefully not take too much heed of it, so I probably would've said something along the lines of 'What a silly man, someone needs to teach him some manners' and as he gets older add things like 'Poor man, it must be horrible to be so ignorant/stupid/dumb (whatever word you want to use, I know some have bad connotations for some, we use 'what a prat')'.

Racism is IMO something that lowers people in my estimation, even the cleverest man in the world being racist would make me feel more intelligent than him, because there really is no logic to it!

VictorianSqualor · 31/12/2007 14:29

FWIW, the only times I have had to use such tactics are through people using vile language that my DC'S overhear.
My children are now of the impression that if someone needs to use horrid words or swear a lot they must be lacking of the intelligence to think of proper words to describe what they are thinking without resorting to inappropriate language.

foxcubinapeartree · 03/01/2008 11:39

Hi QC - that's really horrible. In fact I think drunks generally are horrible - volatile etc (apart from when its me who is merry LOL)

I had to removed DS1 from his first childminder - partly 'cos her teenaged son used racist language (not about DS1) and I didn't want him being exposed, particularly as he is mixed race. Its horrible that you cannot ultimately protect your children from stupid adults and then just have to teach them how to deal with it.

There was a whole thread recently about the word "chink" - with people from north of England saying that it is not considered a term of abuse in the north. Strange but true. I was wondering whether the guy who said it to your DS may have been northern and wasn't intending to be horrible maybe?

I'd have been tempted to say "well at least he is not a p*ss head loser like you" but probably would've done the same as you - said nothing at the time and felt terrible afterwards when I'd reflected on the wider issues.

lulumama · 03/01/2008 11:49

zero tolerance is good in theory, but not with a drunken idiot. at least his mate was giving him a bollocking. it is really sad that words like chinky/ paki have made it into common parlance and people either don;t know they are pejorative words, or do know, and don;t care.

ReverseThePolarity · 03/01/2008 11:58

Foxie, as you know I'm from the North and as far as I'm concerned, "chink" is a racist term. I know a lot of people round here use it to refer to Chinese takeaways though (as in "going for a chinky") and genuinely don't realise it's racist, as opposed to the word "paki" where they do know it's racist, but don't care.

Anchovy · 03/01/2008 12:05

I think how you respond slightly depends on how it was meant. From your description of what the man said, I don't think it sounds as though it was a "hate crime" - it was a clumsy use of ill-advised language by someone who should have known better but who possibly meant well in his underlying sentiment. The fact that his mate was picking him up on it would probably be enough for me, together with it being clear that you had noted it and thought it objectionable. In those circumstances I would not go full on with a tirade which I would use in other circumstances.

I do think that practising a few mildly cutting/deflating responses would be a good idea - even better if they were amusing as well. I think you should start a thread possibly asking for a few because I bet you would get quite a few.

(Disclaimer: am possibly talking out of my backside here: my interest in this is because we are white but our nanny is very black and I aware of a couple of issues - completely benign, to date - when she and DD are out and about.)

margoandjerry · 03/01/2008 12:09

poor you. I think zero tolerance is the way to go...but not with drunks.

There must be some way of making it clear to your son you are protecting him without having to have a massive showdown when it's not appropriate (eg with a drunk). I like the "silly man" approach for the drunk.

I'd be interested to know what the old hands say when they need to make a point or cut a conversation short. My daughter was born by anonymous donor and there is no father in her life so we will face intrusive questions at some point and perhaps inappropriate language. I'd want to cut them short without, as you say, embarrassing my daughter. I would be interested to hear how people deal with the race issue as I'm sure there are lessons I could learn.