Half caste

[Pam70]

This has been troubling me for over a week. A colleague and I were discussing Wife Swap last week and she referred to one of the wives as being half caste.

I hate the term half caste and would never refer to DS or DD as such nor would I ever want them to hear someone call them such.

I didn't say anything to my colleague then and am now wondering if I should. Bear in mind that we live in Northern Ireland which is still relatively new to the idea of multiculturalism.

I don't think she said it in malice or in a derogatory way, it just rolled off her tongue presumably because she has no other term for mixed race?

But if she's using it and she's in her 30s, what hope have I that DS won't be referred to or called such at school by other kids or other parents?

that's what I mean really MI

I can ask one person how I should refer to their kids, who have mixed parentage, but their answer would offend someone else who's kids have mixed parentage, if you see what I mean. Not that I need that sort of information, but for the sake of argument.

So is there a term that nobody will find offensive? Cos that's the one I want to use

Excuse me

standing on one leg

I?m half-caste

Explain yuself

wha yu mean

when yu say half-caste

yu mean when Picasso

mix red an green

is a half-caste canvas/

explain yuself

wha yu mean

when yu say half-caste

yu mean when light an shadow

mix in de sky

is a half-caste weather/

well in dat case

england weather

nearly always half-caste

in fact some o dem cloud

half-caste till dem overcast

so spiteful dem don?t want de sun pass

ah rass/

explain yuself

wha yu mean

when yu say half-caste

yu mean tchaikovsky

sit down at dah piano

an mix a black key

wid a white key

is a half-caste symphony/

Explain yuself

Wha yu mean

Ah listening to yu wid de keen

half of mih ear

Ah looking at yu wid de keen

half of mih eye

and when I?m introduced to yu

I?m sure you?ll understand

why I offer yu a half-a-hand

an when I sleep at night

I close half-a-eye

consequently when I dream

I dream half-a-dream

an when moon begin to glow

I half-caste human being

cast half-a-shadow

but yu must come back tomorrow

wid de whole of yu eye

an de whole of yu ear

an de whole of yu mind

an I will tell yu

de other half

of my story

John Agard

No-one has yet come up with an acceptable term.

Hindu caste system origins. Someone "half caste" is less than a whole person. Which is not good, is it?

'Half-caste' is a nonsensical term. The caste system is quite specific to Hinduism. You are a Brahmin, or a Harijan, and so on. 'Half-caste' means...er, what? Sod-all.

Scummy Mummy, that is Fab, never seen it before and had to google John Agard.

I'd be quite happy with mixed race as a term

Me too. Even though I fully concede that race is itself a complicated and deeply flawed construct.

Ok, I will use mixed race from now on in case I offend. Is this term agreed upon by everyone?

I think mixed race is generally an acceptable term, Rhubarb.

i had this discussion with my friend recently and he is black with black parents, he has two children with his white girlfriend and he describes them as being mixed race.

but then my old friends of mixed race describe themselves as "half caste"

I love John Agard's writing.
My Year 8 class were introduced to 'Listen Mr.Oxford Don' last year and we had great fun during those lessons.

When I was at school (in W.London, very multicultural) the term 'half cast' was commonplace and it was, in fact, 'cool' to be 'half cast'. I think the term was given more to those who were of Black/White origin as opposed to just half something and half something else. Mixed race was just the same as half cast. I remember standing outside the school gates one day after school with my friend (who was half black/half white) when we were approached by a group of black girls. We were asked 'where are you from?' My friend replied 'I'm half cast' to which they replied 'Safe' and did the 'touch' gesture if anyone remembers that (clenched fist in respect manner). They then asked me and I said 'I'm half Egyptian' to which they replied 'Egypt's in Africa innit..safe!' So, my point is, when I was at school, it was cool to be half cast but really the term was generally used for those who were half black/white.
I've always just said i'm half such and such...

As for the term coloured - never used it in my life. My dad said it not so long ago as he really believed that it was rude to say black. Sometimes people don't know and it can get confusing.

Love cloud - Yes exactly!

We were brought up using the term, but i cottoned on that it wasn't OK some years ago now and have used mixed race ever since, bi-racial is new to me but will use that from now.

Maybe make an effort to use the preferred phrase around her but I woldn't jump on her too much: at the end of the day any phrase is racist if said with malicious intent, and (to a large extent- obviously there are exceptions) the reverse is true: the essential part is what she meant by it I would have thought?

I'm mentally filing John Agard away for such time when I may need to introduce him to DS' school (pushy parent alert!)

Thanks ScummyMummy

hello scrummymummy

Hindu caste system origins - how is this related to the term "half caste"?

growing up we only used the term if one of your parents was black and the other white - not for anyone else. so i cant see how this ties in... people could drive themselves mad by linking up thats sounds related.

mixed race is ok to me too - i just have to get use to it as it sounds so new.

some of my new friends must be thinking "if she refers to me as a half caste again..."

only joking...its not like it ever comes in a conversation anyway but its good to know so i dont offend anyone.

Of course it's related - caste means something specific, half-caste means, er, nothing. I spent ages trying to work out how you could be half of a caste, as a child, before giving up and realising what rubbish it was.

I'm pretty sure it's related- I would suspect the term originates from the British occupation of India, as a lot of these terms do: it was the first time many people had contact with people with differing skin colours and the descriptive terms developed then.

I want to know who decides words are in or out. Where did bi-racial come from? Or when did black become more favourable than coloured? Is is people in the media?

Ok so caste means half a kind, half a background meaning half your mum and half you dads background - how can that be negative. i see it as it means your half your mam and dad. does not mean suggest you are half a person?

I dont know, i guess this could go round for ages so i will stick to "mixed race" from now on as it has been suggested here not offensive even though it suggests the same as half caste???

i don't like it personally, cos it sort of implies half a person. If half caste - what is the other half. i think that poem sums it up very well. But I don't think it is offensive, jsut a matter of preference. I wouldn't refer to my dts as half caste. I prefer mixed race (or heritage).

Personally I don't like it.

I don't think that there is anything "half" about any of my children.

I don't think it's PC gone mad, but there are plenty of things that are. The term half-caste stopped being used widely years ago. It's not a new PC thing at all.

Of course, there are people who still use it, but should anyone use it to describe my children I would tell them that I, as a black woman, find it personally offensive.

To be honest, the amount of different labels that my children and I can and have been given make my head hurt. I quite like mixed heritage actually. Cos that's what they are.

Nope, looking at the DTs now... definitely nothing half about them!

I would see half as meaning half of one parent and half of another though, not half full iyswim.

Better tell my brothers they are no longer half-caste then! I'm not sure what they would make of mixed-race though.

So what if one of the parents is actually half caste? Does their child become quarter cast?!?
Mixed race definitely sounds better IMHO.