Buying a house - right of way mare

[Boredoffootballnow]

Offer accepted on house. Leaving London for the country. Big move etc. Turns out drive not included. Annoying we thought, maybe we'll haggle over price. It's alright they say, right of way is on deeds so you can still park etc.

Our solicitor says. No it isn't. Sure enough right of way isn't on the deeds. House is two cottages knocked together and right of way was on old deeds for one house, not the new deed for combined house. No parking without access over drive. Windy country lane, no room for parking elsewhere at all.

This is dream house, DH is devastated and sellers and estate agent are just ignoring us and saying don't worry about it. Our solicitor says we are utterly mad to buy without them reapplying for right of way and then securing it before completion. If it's all fine and not a worry he says, then it'll take them a couple of weeks to get it into the new deeds, they pay if there's a charge and you pay for house secure in knowledge it's value won't be affected by lack of right of way. If they won't, our sol says, means it's likely not to be easy, or expensive to resecure right of way.

Am I just an untrusting Londoner who wants is dotted and t's crossed as estate agents and sellers' solicitor is saying? They've lived in house for 25 years and never had any problems. But our solicitor says no right of way on deeds means no right of way and plenty of recent case law to show these cases are challenged and can be lost. He says if they won't renew it with land owner to get it on deeds we need to abort buying process?

Please someone help - driving me insane. What would you do?

I'd establish right of way - they may never have had problems, but you only need a new owner of the drive who is a tosser and you'd have problems

Thanks CMOT. Just worrying that we're being silly as they think we're London arses who don't understand country ways. At least that's the impression I'm getting.

It's just if I look at right of way, easements etc on google, it's just heaving with disputes.

So hard when you think you've found "the one"...

If you're paying for a solicitor, I think you would be silly to ignore his advice because you don't want to look silly in front of the sellers.

Get your solicitor to outline the process for you and send a copy of it to the EA.

I made the move out into the country and I would say you would be mad to ignore this!! I have 2 right of ways across my property and I also have to cross 'common' land to get onto my driveway.

There can be really petty squabbles between neighbours who are very protective of 'their space' and place they live. It only takes a minor incident and hey presto you have no access to your house.

I do believe in fate ..... stick with it, get the legals sorted and if its meant to be it will all come right in the end.

Good luck

DH has just reminded me that he used to see the consequences of people hoping for the best all the time when he dealt with restrictive covenant insurance (ie, you can take out insurance against someone enforcing one of these). People would deliberatly wait until others were in unreverable situations before holding them to ransom by invoking a very old covenant which could result in all sorts of trouble.

And if you don't have right of way, you'd have trouble selling the house too, so you need it sorted

Definitely get it sorted, estate agent and their solicitors are acting on behalf of buyers so are bound to say it isn't a problem and you shouldn't worry about it.

Doubt they will want to lose the sale and they are likely to have the same issue with other buyers if they did decide to ditch you and look for another buyer. I bet they kind of know this too.

Not buyers, I mean sellers in that first sentence.

The Mumsnet heads are saying no then .. very sensible given my heart is aching for "the one" and Dh desp for it to all work out.

Need the courage to hold out here. Onwers of drive are likely to be nice - trust/foundation of national heritage type site.

It's just that estate agents and sellers' solicitor don't seem to understand the deal is off unless they sort this. WOuld it be outrageous/dangerous to contact sellers directly to explain theproblem in lay terms from our perspective. Don't want it to drag on for mnths unecessarily rather it fell through fast than took months...

I would tell the vendors ea outright that either they establish right of way within a month (apparently perfectly doable) or it is all off, and that you need written confirmation this week that they are going to do this.

And if you don't get it this week, then I would contact them direct to ensure that they have got the message

I would definitely deal with the sellers direct. Have done this in the past and is a far quicker route than going through agents etc.

We lost our 'dream home' before getting this place. I can honestly say the 'dream home' in hindsight wasn't quite right. We had a lucky escape.

In this case don't listen to your heart it will end in tears.

We spoke to our sellers recently about a similar situation (restrictive covenants on house - but not as essential as yours as we don't NEED them removed) and it did help clear the air/make things simpler ,etc. You will obviously need to go through solicitors as well though.

CMO I like that. Thing is I thought that's what our solicitor had done, to their solicitor, but it doesn't seem to be getting through. He said, no deal unless we get right of way sorted (an easement) survey off til then.

EAgent and sellers' solicitor just keep going nah, don't worry it's fine as it is. They just don't seem tohave got the message. Do you think we send letter from us, and to who, or get our solicitor to do it and ask him to cc estate agent as well as sellers solicitor.

Thanks for all replies. So useful.

I would definitely get this sorted before you go any further. It could turn into a nightmare. I agree with CMOTdibbler - all in writing.

Try and contact the sellers direct if you have no joy with the letter.

Good luck

Summer, cross posting. Very interesting. What do you mean by go through solicitors as well. Do we do letter and get solicitors to do letter do you think?

Letter to their EA, with copy to both sets of solicitors (and a copy in the ea envelope for the vendor) giving a very clear timescale and the message that this is an absolute requirement 'having taken legal advice', and that you need confirmation by x that they will do this and it to have happened by y, else you will be unable to proceed

If they faff, I would honestly be concerned as to whether a roa would actually be formally permitted

Your mortgage lender (if you have one) would want it sorted out before they let you have the money.

Oh god, this is just what I needed. Thank you.

Faffing seems to be the order of the day and I feel like they're fudging on purpose. If it's "no worry, not a problem" they can do it no? After all original property details misrepresented drive, then drive no right of way on deeds afterall. Dh suspects they've known about it all laong and were just hoping for thickwits to buy it.

I just mean that the solicitors will need to sort out the paperwork, but that talking to the sellers direct can make them realise you are serious and cut out the chinese whispers and delays that always seem to occur with going through solicitors.

Our solicitor usually forwards us on letters that she has sent to the sellers solicitors and ones she has received back (I think it's usually done by fax but same thing). Personally I would get my solicitor to do the letter not do it myself.

Have you had the valuation/survey done yet? Could you call your mortgage lender and ask them if they would need it sorted to lend you the money? As that could help get them to take you seriously?

Had survey pulled on advice of solicitor, who says he'd have to declare and feels drive issue - unresolved - is "major blight" on the property.

Feel sure that any other sane buyer would do the same as parking is simply not possible at all for a good mile without the drive. It would take a pure cash buyer who doesn't give a fig. Think we need to write firm letter as suggested as solicitor's firm letter not getting through at the moment. Just means risking not getting hosue and that's wherer the heart comes in.

So much sane, head-based, advice here. Thank you all. I know really we have to be firm, just reluctant to do it... so wanted to move in over summer, great lkittle school sorted for DS, time to settle a bit in August, then school starts. Now it'll probably be autumn if at all and .. oh buggery! Took me forever to find and get that school.

On a more practical level, our garage is on our neighbours land and we have right of way over their land / footpath across the front of their property to get to ours.

However, this means that whenever we disagree with our neighbours of small things the right of way always comes up. They did say that if it wasn't for the right of way being on the title deeds then we wouldn't be allowed to use the drive / have the right of way. Please make sure everything is legal and set in stone before you buy the house.

Yes you should secure it.My DH's parents had major problems with right of way access when a new man moved in to the house down their track and started blocking off the access with bollards etc.
Btw we have relocated to the country,and aside from pining for Selfridges,its been great.

Owners are nice in principle, trust/foundation for national heritage-style site, and though in principle I doubt burnt out caravans and bollards would appear ovrnight, I think they could be ruthless commercially over how much new right of way terms will cost, not least given current economic climate ...

Jelly - Oh god, I hadnt thought about selfridges. Not for clothes of course, broke as we are, but I would def miss the food hall for treats ... Glad to hear the move has gone well. I've given up thinking about that for the time being as the actual deal is getting in way of plans and fears...

Please sort it out before you buy. We had a nightmare with our neighbours. You will probably be OK until they want something in return.

We wanted to sell our place and needed the neighbours signature for something agreed in writing 6 years earlier.

They took 6 months over it, charged us a fortune for their legal costs to oppose us, and made our lives miserable. If we hadn't finally got out, I think I'd have been suicidal.

In return they wanted us to give permission for all sorts of things, we lived in ground floor flat below them.

Having been through a not dis-similar issue over the last 18 months get it sorted out before you buy. We were fortunate the mistake was partly ours and partly the solicitors so by mutual agreement we paid £1000 in costs though they did give us the billable hours 45 of them at £165 per hour true cost £7425 plus VAT.
Plus it consumed our lives with worry and potentially could have finacially destroyed us it had not been resolved.
In a very hard headed way if they won't sort it it's not the dream house. So needs to be signed sealed and registered with land registry before you buy.