Attachment of earnings order - first pymt taken yesterday, now we don't have enough left to live on. :(

[LadyOfTheFlowers]

We were in arrears on the CT. I filled in an income and expenditure form, for what is was worth, they plucked £150 out of the air as a sum we could pay.

I paid it a couple of months but things were very tight.

I went in to pay last month to be stopped at the desk and informed there was no need as an attachment of earnings had been put on DHs wages. We knew nothing about this, no letter or anything, and was told they didn't have to tell us.

Eyes start pricking as preg. hormones kick in, I ask to speak to someone to explain to me how it works. Am steered towards a very publicly positioned CT telephone in the middle of the council offices, right under a tannoy, to speak to a CT advisor. Lady very nice, says they will deduct 12% of DHs take home, which worked out about the same as what they wanted anyway.
Ok I thought - same amount - saves me the trip with the kids in to pay it.

DH was paid on Friday, went to cashpoint as DS1 needs some more school sweaters, thought the balance looked a bit low - maybe DH had taken some out for shopping we were going to do, petrol, couple of very unextravagant (sp?) presents we were going to get for kids for Xmas. Seems no - he had taken about £20 out.

He has gone into work this morn. and rung me as soon as he had arrived to tell me his pay slip was waiting and they took £206.89. He had worked his socks of making himself ill to get some extra money to buy the kids presents and they have taken all this plus more, eating into his basic amount.

From here on in, we don't have enough to pay basic living expenses. The normal direct debits etc won't be met.

This now means we have some shopping we did last night but that will be it for month - will last about 2 weeks, possibly enough to pay the mortgage and rent but nothing much else. What if we run out of food? DH is diabetic - I need to have good food here for him and I can't run out! What do I send in DS1s lunchbox? What do I eat - I'm preg.?

We are goin to have to forget the kids presents, DSs sweaters, DS2 will have to stop goin to pre-school (he is 3 and so ready, he misses going to school next year by 10 days, but is not funded in preschool until January - I already owe them £68 so will have to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand), extra 'nice' Xmas food, DH and I were goin to get each other a little present - I was goin to get his chain I bought him for Valentines a few years back repaired and re-give it to him , I need a new tyre and inner tube for the pushchair. Little things.

I am so upset I am sobbing. I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel.

I am so sorry - I need to talk to someone. I don't know what to do, hopefully someone knows what I can do because I don't.
I am letting my kids down.

Oh, totally sympasize with you.
First thing Monday you need to go to their office and speak to someone. Take a list of your expenditures, ie all your direct debits and your income. I know they are entitled to their money but we went through something similar and came up with an amount agreed between us which we pay.

HAve to say I am dreading the nxet letter from them as dh has been made redundant and got another job and each time they ask for more.

Did they get a CCJ against you?
I thought you were supposed to get notification of the attachment of earnings order?

We have had an attachment of earning for council tax and to be honest its a nightmare they lost payments and threatened to take more money took nearly a year to sort it out and they are allowed to take over 12% if you have extra money ie overtime etc we where in the same boat hubby did loads of extra hours to try and sort out christmas but they took almost every penny of it on the attachment I was gutted

I don't know if they got a CCJ? I have read some stuff, though there isn't much I can findon the net from the point of view of the 'defendant' but lots of info on how to set one up on someones wages.

I did however glean that we should have recieved a form to fill in with details of income and expenditure which is to be returned within 8 days - didn't see one of those either.

I recently tried to do that 30 day free trial thing to see what my credit file is like but you have to provide debit card details to do the free trial, which neither of us have.

I have called my Mum this morn in floods of tears. She thinks I should ring my debt management company and tell them we need to et the £100 we pay reduced (think if it is reduced though, the main creditor will make us bankrupt tbh) and to open another bank account at another bank and have the child benefit paid in there so at least the kids will have food,clothes,stuff they need.

Do you think I will 'get done' by anywhere if I do that? After all it is child benefit to help with the upkeep of my children. (soon to be 4 children)

Did the council take you to court?

We did get a court summons, so I called them. They sent me an income and expenditure form and then said I could pay £150.
(I don't think they read the form)

I did this for 2 months, then was informed of the attachment whatsit.
??

Spoke to debt management place - she told me it sounds like a liability order because its a gouvernment debt.

I have to go into the court on Monday and ask for forms with which I can apply to have it changed to something I can afford or possibly have it suspended, but then I will have to pay it and not be allowed to miss any - if I miss one or am late, 'further action' will be taken.
There might be a fee attached of £65 for this.

Lady, I am really sorry that this has left you short of money. I used to work in council tax (scaryteacher writes this better than me but seems she hasn't seen this yet)

As it is a local government tax there are set rules to follow re billing and reminders. You should have received a reminder, then a final reminder telling you that if you do not bring your arrears up to date that they will ask for the full balance for the year and if you do not pay that they will take you to court.

There are sadly no second chances after that final notice, so a summons is then issued. This is to go to a magistrates court not a county court so no CCJ and obtain a Liability Order (L/O). This gives the council more power than letter writing to recover the debt.

It entitles them to ask for an income and expenditure form to be filled in which includes your employment details.

At summons stage, any payment arrangement entered into is still subject to them obtaining the LO and basically if they know that on X salary they can take 12% then they usually wouldn't settle for any amount less on a voluntary basis.

If you fail to keep the arrangement they write to you and your employer at the same time with all the paperwork telling you what is happening.

The percentage rate is set by central government. When you provide your basic salary details they tell you the amount they can take. IF you work over-time and go over the next threshold they can take more money as it is a percentage of your salary that month.

When I worked at the council the top percentage you could take was 17% of the first X amount say £2000 and then, BRACE yourself, anything over that amount we could take 50% of the remainder. Yes I did have this happen to a man who was on a whopping salary and we took his debt in one go!

If you do ever get into difficulties paying council tax you should always contact them immediately, even if you are just going to be a bit late with your payment, reminders could be cancelled at discretion if the money was coming in but just a bit late and there was contact.

In your case I think they are asking you to fill in an income and expediture form to prove you cannot afford for the standard amount to be taken. Get some help from CAB filling the forms in as they deal with this kind of thing all the time.

And yes if you miss one payment they would just attach it again to earnings. It guarantees the money. It is sadly a case of how many chances do you want to pay it. As it is an ongoing bill, ie another one comes out in March, they want the previous year cleared first otherwise you are paying the debt and a new bill as well.

I hope this has explained it a bit, I really do feel for you and I hope you get sorted.

Phew, that was long!

One thing you can ask to be done if they will take you off the attachment is for the bill to be added to next years and then divided over the months remaining to March 11. This may reduce the payments. However, you would have to stick to that like superglue, otherwise it will be back to the attachments.

If you had had an arrangement to which you were sticking, then I can't see why it would have gone to attachment.

You are pregnant, with other children; play that aspect up, and they may spread the arrangement as I have suggested above. Councils don't like the bad publicity that will result if your children suffer; but, the bottom line is that the Council has to borrow money to make up for the shortfall from nonpayers to keep the services going. They can't afford to write the debt off and they do have a duty to collect it.

Good luck, be honest and realistic about what you can afford in the incoming/outgoings form.

Thanks for those posts ladies.

I understand they have to collect the money and that's fine - I never tried to avoid payment - I simply didn't have it to give them.

I did an income/expenditure which showed I had £45 measly quid left at the end of the month so they decided I would have to pay £45 more, plus another £5 , instantly putting me in debt, albeit by £5.

I paid this amount twice in person (no direct debit as DHs work changed to paying him 4 weekly and it kept getting messed up - this is what started the problem off with pymts being late)

On the 3rd occaision, I went in late to pay, by 4 days, yes, and was told there was no point as the account was either 'going to Bailiffs or to 'attachment of earnings'. I told her I had nothing for Bailiffs to have, which we don't, and was told 'not to worry - looks like it's gone to attachment anyway'. I asked her how much, and this was when she said if he typically brings home £1200 they will take 12% of this take-home figure which she said equated to around £148, so I assumed we would be no worse than we had been the following few months.

Anyway, it didn't go like that. £206 or whatever it was went out leaving us £1000 for the month. Needless to say, something is not going to be paid this month.

What is narking me is that they knew paying £150 was putting me in debt, so they have taken £206 and out debt councellor woman whatever she is called has told me if they like, they can deduct from our child benefit too - directly from my kids. I am now depending on that to feed them.

They've taken more because he has done overtime as Fizzy explained.

Having just had a quick google, I found this:
'Deductions can be made from Income Support, Jobseekers Allowance, Employment Support Allowance or Pension Credit. It is not possible to set up an attachment to any other kind of benefit.'

Therefore, an attachment order cannot be made to your Child Benefit. If I were you, I would talk direct to the CTAX officers about what they can and can't attach to; the debt counsellor woman obviously doesn't know what she is talking about.

There is a set amount as Fizzy says that has to be taken dependent upon the level of earnings - it is set down in law and cannot be changed. Is there anything you have that is not strictly essential - a Sky package for instance, that you could drop for the moment to free up some more money?

I hated having to do income/expenditure with people as it was intrusive, but eye opening. One man I dealt with spent £120 per month on fags. When I suggested he might quit smoking and his debt could be cleared in 10 months he was really cross. He ended up having an attachment which cleared it more quickly than 10 months!

if you're feeling in over your head, you can go to the CAB and their money advisors can help you sort it too

I recently got in a right royal mess with CT and housing people and it's got sorted in a week or so with the help of lovely CAB lawyer people who told the council the law and what they simply are not allowed to do!

I have looked where we could make cuts - we have Sky but basic and obv. we have broadband, but this is my only 'luxury' as it were, for myself to enjoy.
I don't drink or smoke, or go out, or buy clothes/shoes, or have a hobby or anything tbh.

Thanks for your posts ladies - we are making an appt with CAB to have an overview of everything done.

Am feeling less stressed about it now.

You may also want to try the moneysavingexpert.com boards.