Renting: Must we clean carpets etc if landlord can't produce original cleaning receipts?

[faraday]

We've been in this place 5 years.

The owners own 30 odd properties which they manage themselves BUT they get another estate agency to find tenants, do the inventory and referencing. This agency also do the check out.

We have just received a bog standard check out form which amongst other things demands we get the carpets and curtains professionally cleaned. Needless to say we can't FIND our original (bog standard!) tenancy agreement copy.

The curtains (and carpets) here old and the inventory mentions stains etc on them.

Do we have a leg to stand on in refusing to get them professionally cleaned IF they can't produce receipts proving they had that done prior to our occupancy?

I think it really depends what it says on your tenancy contract.
If you signed it saying you would get carpets and curtains cleaned on leaving then you must do it regardless of whether they did it before you moved in or not.
If it doesnt say that on your contract then I would definitely dispute it if you moved in to stained carpets (as noted on inventory). Obviously clean everything to same standard as it was when you moved in and let them know thats all you are prepared/required to do.

If you have lost your copy of tenancy agreement then maybe the agency can provide you with a new copy if you ask?

Yes, they can but I am seriously wondering if in this new era of 'tenants rights' they can insist on ME providing a service (professional carpet cleaning) that THEY can't prove they did. Would it be deemed 'unreasonable' of them in a court of law, NOT that I would intend it getting that far!- I hope.

They need to allow for 5 years wear & tear so its unreasonable to expect them to be cleaned to the same standard as when you moved in.
I would hire a carpet cleaner from the supermarket for the day and give them the once over and leave it at that...

if they were clean when you moved in (you will know with or without a recpt) you should clean them when you move out, after all it is 5 years of your dirt on them

If it's in the contract, it doesn't much matter whether they were clean when you moved in or not: you agreed to clean them when you moved out. They'll only remove the cost from your deposit if you don't pay up so you might as well phone round and find the cheapest outfit you can.

Aha- managed to find the original rental contract which says:

'to pay for any cleaning services that may be required to reinstate the Property to the same order that it was provided at the start of the tenancy including the cleaning the washing/cleaning of all.... carpets and curtains which shall (??) have been soiled during the tenancy'

which is a bit different to:

'Carpets and curtains should be professionally cleaned. Cleaning receipts to be produced at checkout.'
...which is written in our checkout inventory advice!

So MY interpretation is that I have to return the curtains (mildewed rags though they were upon commencement of our tenancy!) and carpets to the same condition as back then- NOT that I HAVE to get them professionally cleaned!

So did the lettings agency give you a different copy of the tenancy agreement saying you had to have the carpets professionally cleaned ?

Yes you should have them cleaned and advise that you have done so but also mention that you assume the landlord will have claimed his 10% wear and tear deduction each year in his tax return so that after 5 years they will never be in the same condition that they were when you moved in.

I actually probably will get a cleaning machine in myself (can't be doing with spot cleaning every mark!) BUT I won't be paying anyone professionally to come in and clean what have to be over 10 year old carpets (we've been here 5 and they're were quite tatty when we arrived!). Thanks for the tax deduction implications, inscotland.

As for the different tenancy agreement, not exactly- what happened was the letter advising us of when their inventory bloke was coming around came, attached to a list of 'You MUST's'; one of which states the fourth paragraph of my last post here, re 'cleaning receipts TO BE produced...'.

I am rather annoyed that this big national company think it's OK to send that sort of thing which isn't actually legally binding yet is caged in terms implying it IS! I know I would have disputed that clause at the start of the tenancy on the basis 'We'll show OUR receipts if you show us YOURS' and bearing in mind it was a 6 month tenancy at that stage- oh, and that we'd feel differently if there were clean, good condition carpets in situ. Our living room looks like it was carpeted from the off-cuts of a pub refit, circa 1780!

If you're hiring cleaning equipment, then you'll have a receipt for that, show them that?

Send a letter back, copying in the company which holds your deposit, saying

"I note your request to professionally clean the curtains and carpet with some surprise. Our contract states the curtains / carpet be left in the same order as on arrival, and you will note from our original inventory that on arrival, they were stained. Could you please provide proof that the above had been professionally cleaned."

I'd agree Mary BS, but the 'demands to be met' letter DOES state:

'Carpets and curtains should be professionally cleaned. Cleaning receipts to be produced at checkout'.

Me doing it myself may not wash, if you'll excuse the pun. Yes, I will challenge the assertion that it HAS to be done professionally but I think what I'll do is casually ask the teenager who comes to DO the inventory/condition check rather than go in, guns blazing because, as DH says, they're trying it on, but IF there's an issue, then we will word that letter!