Any solicitors dealing with housing issues-Need advice please

[starsnstripes]

Just wondered if anyone could give me some advice re my situation please?

My FIL bought the house me ,H and the children live in 5 years ago and we pay him rent monthly which H pays from his bank account to his fathers each month.

We have no written agreemenbt or rent book.

The house is in trust for my DS ,his grand child when he is older.

H and I are going through a rough patch to put it mildly and wondered what my rights are as far as staying in the house would be?

DS has special needs and we live right near his school in which he has a statement and a 1:1 and needs stabilty and routine.

Any advice would be greatly recieved.

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Wish I could help with this one but all my old study buddies who are now solicitors went into corporate loadsamoney jobs and I don't know anyone who does matrimonial or landlord and tenant!

Personally I think your biggest job would be to physically get him to leave even if you have full rights to remain in the house

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Wotcha Flibberty!

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I think threads in this category get answered during working hours quite often - bored solicitor mums at work!
So don't panic till at least 5pm tomorrow

Hi, I have followed your other threads, and wish you all the very best in building a new life!

I think the situation with the house is not straight forward.

To sum it up as briefly as I can: if FIL is just your landlord, he can evict you with 2 months' notice. You could potentially get a court order making your (not-so-D)H leave the house and leave you in peace; but you wouldn't get one without a court hearing where you and DH both gave evidence, and you might not get one at all if FIL gives you notice. It doesn't matter who pays the rent.

However, FIL may also be a Trustee of the house on behalf of your DS.

I think it makes a difference whether there is a Deed of Trust, all witnessed and signed, or whether it is just FIL's word that he intended the house to be for your DS later on.

If there is a Deed of trust then your DS is the sole beneficiary, and FIL is trustee. That would mean that FIL could not act against DS's interests - ie he could not throw DS out or sell the house if DS's interests required it to be kept.

What it doesn't necessarily do is give you any rights as such. It might give you legal arguments against FIL, eg that you should be made trustee instead of him, but it would probably be a complicated and lengthy saga.

But if FIL is a Trustee for your DS's beneficial interest, then there is a strong argument that he could be stopped from evicting you, because you are DS's main carer.

I hope this helps a bit. Sorry if it is rather complicated.

Will try to check back tomorrow morning.

Thanks girls for bumping.

Thanks Mrspickles and iheartdusty-I know it is all rather complicated.

FIL was about 69 when he bought the house so is about 74 now so would imagine he payed for most of the house already as would not of got a mortgage at the age ,would he?
Also H has never signed anything so would imagine FIL is the trustee at the moment.
DS is only 7 at the moment.

I would think my FIL has ben pretty shrewd and would think there would be something stating I do not get my hands on the house or any money if he were to sell it.

stars - I have been following the long other thread so I know why you are asking.

I run 4 family trusts similar to the one you talk about. The law on trusts is incredibly complex.

You will need specialist advice from trust lawyers and a copy of the trust deeds to be absolutely sure.

Trust deeds are public documents in the UK (I believe) so a lawyer would be able to get a copy if your husband or FIL will not give you one.

I basically agree with iheartdusty though I am afraid it would PROBABLY involve a complex legal battle.

It is not even clear to me whether it is a UK domiciled trust or an overseas trust (e.g Guernsey, Jersey, IOM) which would make it even more complex as it would not even be governed by UK law.

Abetadad-thanks for your reply.

I did think this was'nt going to be easy.
Could I access a copy of the deeds myself?

Do you mean were does FIL live and took out the deed?

Stars, a really negative thought just occured to me. Is it possible that your fil bought the house and lets you rent it, tells you that its for ds...
But actually he just owns it and you rent it and it will always be his?
If you've never seen any trust deeds etc?
My sisters fil would have done something like that, he liked to have complete control over his son including where he lived.

Is there any way you could bring this up with h, for example to lie and say that you've been acting strangely lately because you are stressing about the house and what would happen if fil died, would you be able to stay in it or will it become just part of his estate to be split among h and his brothers?

I understand completely though if you don't want to bring the subject up with h, but I am very suspicious of whether there is actually any deed in existence.

Maybe its something you can ask and demand answers to after you've gone?

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stars - I do not know how to access a Trust deed or even if it is possible in all cases but maybe iheartdusty knows.

We have a lawyer who does our legal work. She belongs to the Society of Trust & Estate Professionals (STEPS) but they are very expensive upwards of £350 - £500 per our.

A trust can be set up in any domicile by anyone even if they live in another coutry. The trust itself is a separate legal entity that has its own identity and residence separate from the person who created it ('the Settlor') or the people who administer it ('the trustees'). this s the same as say a cmpany registered in the Isle of Man but actually operates its business out of the UK.

In any divorce of course the trust would become highly relevant so your knowledge it exists will be very helpful in forcing your H to hand over a copy of the deed.

I agree with FlibbertyJibbet that at the moment you and your husband and children are just tenants and depending on the tenancy the trustees could just give the tenants notice to quit the property. It is entirely possible your husband has no idea what the trust deeds say either.

A Trust is a kind of legal promise to own something on behalf of someone else.

A Deed of Trust is a written promise where witnesses have put their names on it to say they saw it being signed.

When it is all done formally and properly, like AbetaDad is talking about, there may be many pages of small print involved. But it could just be one paragraph long.

It is possible for there to be a trust with nothing in writing, but hard to prove.

I don't think trust documents have to be filed anywhere public, but I may be wrong.

I wonder if it might be helpful to start thinking of yourself as the protector of DS's possible interests, where the house is concerned. It's clear from your other long threads that no way at all are you out to get your hands on something unfairly. But if FIL tried to back off from his promise that the house was "in trust", then who would be making sure that he could not go back on a promise he had effectively made to DS?

In particular, if there is a 'trust' in writing, it ought to be registered at the Land Registry against the house. The Land Registry (as you may already know) shows who owns a house, and whether there is a mortgage, and it also shows if someone else has a claim against the house - such as a trust.

You (or your solicitor) could easily get a copy of the Land Registry entry on-line to see what it shows you.

If your FIL has decided that he holds the house on trust for your son, he will need to have evidenced this in writing.

There may not necessarily be a trust deed - so long as the document in writing states that he is holding the house on trust for your son and the document is signed, then this may be sufficient.

You need to find out precisely how the declaration of trust was made. Is FIL acting as the trustee or has he appointed others to manage the affairs?

If there is a valid declaration of trust, then your son is a beneficiary under the trust (albeit a minor). If this is the case, then there is legislation that requires the trustee to act in the beneficiary's best interests, to consider whether the beneficiary has a right to occupy the property etc. Furthermore, if the house is on trust to your son, then in theory, the rent money from the house should be going to your son too, not to the FIL.

I'd certainly try and find more out about the situation. A family solicitor should help.

But, if it turns out that your FIL has merely said that he intends to hold the house on trust, this is not sufficient. The declaration must be in writing, otherwise your FIL remains the legal and beneficial owner and your son has no rights in the property.

Stars you can easily get the land registry entry yourself, I did it the other year trying to find out who owned an empty house we were interested in buying. I think it cost about £6.
You just tell them the address and they write and tell you the owner.
I think you can do it online via the landregistry website and pay with a card. Can your sister do that for you if you don't want any record on your finances?

Stars - just put in a request - will email you the pdf shortly. Maybe you can work out what the names mean? There's 4 registered owners, none of whom seem to match your son's name, and nothing stated about a trust or mortgage.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Thanks to dreadpirate for orgainising this for me ,she is a star.

It is very confusing and frustrating as can't really confront H or FIL about it.

BUMPING for you Stars

Thanks muppets.