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Original poster

Does anyone know much about employment laws? Work have changed their sickness policy, and DS2 is ill.

30 replies

Saltire · 09/03/2009 08:06

I work for a large high st retailer. Thye are apparently changing their sickness policy.
We will now get 4 absences then dismissal. I don't know the full ins and outs, as I ahven't yet had my meeting to discuss it with my manager.

However. I ahd 12 days off in january with a chest infection. Then about 2 weeks ago, spent 3 days in hospital with a suspected heart attack.
When i went back to work the second time and had my "back to work interview". I was
A) Given a formall written warning telling me that my absence was unacceptable and that I had 3 months, duringthis time if I was off again then a disicplinary would occur and i could face dismissal becasue I would then have had 4 absences within a year (may 2008 x2 days, then janury 2009 x 12 days, Feb 2009 x 4 days)
B) Given a verbal warning, which would also be noted on my file that I had failed to attend work one day (the day I was rushed into hospital) and failed to notify them why I wouldn't be in(Iwas wired up to every heart machine going).

Now DS2 has been up all night vomiting and diahorrea. He obviously can't go to school, so if I ring up today and say I won't be in, are they entitled to give me the disciplinary? can they dismiss me, for it being an "Unathorised" absence, which is what they term any illness

OP posts:

rubyslippers · 09/03/2009 08:08

presumably you have sick notes?

i would ring ACAS and see what they say

can you get a copy of the sickness policy ASAP

Original poster

Saltire · 09/03/2009 08:19

I didn't have sick notes for the 4 days last May (although I was technically only off 2, the Friday and Monday, but because my workplace is opne Sat and Sun they counted those as well)
I had a sicknote from GP for the January chest infection, but not from when I was in Hospital, as it was only 3 days in hospital and 2 days at home,and my GP said I had to be off for 7 days before she could give me a sick note!

OP posts:

HelpwithNameNeeded · 09/03/2009 08:22

Someone on MN said it was illegal not to allow someone the time off work for sick children so you may not get paid but you should be allowed the time off

rubyslippers · 09/03/2009 08:24

you can self certify if it is up to 5 days, so you can do this yourself

the hospital will have a record of your admission if work ask for it

also, CAB are very helpful

what a PITA for you - hope your DS is on the mend soon

MuppetsMuggle · 09/03/2009 08:26

Saltire - they can only count you for your missed shifts - so if you do not work sat or sunday they cannot count those.

You should be able to get a letter or something from your consultant at the hospital to confirm you were in hospital for those few days.

If they have any problem tell them to access your medical file (if your happy for that) that shows you were genuinely ill etc.

Ivykaty44 · 09/03/2009 08:26

Time off for dependents is total different from your sickness and they can't put the two together if they do they are breaking the law.

You are allowed time of gor dependent being ill, something like (three days - but dont quote me on that number) then you muct return to work and have sorted someone else to look after the dependent.

Original poster

Saltire · 09/03/2009 08:27

I've jsut read this. it seems I am entitled to time off. however, last time (november 2007) I had a day off because Ds2 was sick, I got a formal warning!

OP posts:

Original poster

Saltire · 09/03/2009 08:31

I haven't had a chance to see the new sickness policy yet.
muppetsmuggle - when my manager was filling in teh company's own self cetificate (for the first few days the employee is meant to ring in every day to tell their manager they won't be in because they are ill), she wrote down 4 days for the absence in May Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. I was off the Saturday anyway,and the Sunday, so really just missed the Friday and Monday,but she still put down 4 days, because she said the shop was open on those days so they must be counted.

OP posts:

llareggub · 09/03/2009 08:35

You'll need to ring in and ask for dependents leave rather than report in sick. You aren't sick so you aren't entitled to sick pay. Dependents leave is usually unpaid.

Original poster

Saltire · 09/03/2009 08:38

I will tell them that DS2 is sick, it's just they are so employee unfriendly.

OP posts:

HelpwithNameNeeded · 09/03/2009 08:46

It doesnt matter how unfriendly they are, they cannot break the law

llareggub · 09/03/2009 08:47

SPecify that you are requesting dependents leave, not sick leave. Refer them to the legislation if you need to, as not all employers are particularly clued up.

Original poster

Saltire · 09/03/2009 08:54

Right am off to ring them now. Can they make me work on Wednesday instead, which is supposed to be my day off, and do I have to make the hours up?

OP posts:

mollythetortoise · 09/03/2009 09:17

perhaps it would be wise to offer to work wednesday instead.. head them off at the pass so to speak. I do that sometimes when my dc's are sick and so I haven't actually had an "absence" from work.

HelpwithNameNeeded · 09/03/2009 11:38

What did they say Saltire?

ThePellyandMe · 09/03/2009 11:48

Is it actually within the law to dismiss someone because of a poor sickness record? Surely they would have to prove or have strong suspicions you were not actually ill or am I being naive.

I think you should talk to your union about their policy TBH.

Ivykaty44 · 09/03/2009 11:51

If you are not in a union - then join one asap.

The way things are atm retail shops along with other trades are looking of ways of scaling down wages bills and to get rid of someone rather than pay them off is much cheaper.

Sad but true so do be careful, having a union behind you can make some difference and as soon as you join they will help you with any problems.

HelpwithNameNeeded · 09/03/2009 11:53

A poor sickness record is probably the reason most people get sacked. You have to have formal written warnings beforehand but it is obviously a sackable offence else many would never go to work

ruddynorah · 09/03/2009 11:54

course it is pellyandme! doesn't have to be non genuine.

mankyscotslass · 09/03/2009 12:16

Pellyandme, as a line manager I used to have to investigate and discipline staff for absence from work, whether or not they had a sick note. As long as you follow procedures then yes, you can dismiss staff who have a poor attendance /sickness record. Even with sick notes. (being very carefull with the DDA though)

Saltire, time off to look after sick dependants is a legal requirement, although it will probably be unpaid. Most companies would allow you a day or two unpaid but then expect you to have back up in place after that.

I hope the phone call to work went ok, and that your DS feels better soon.

circlesquare · 09/03/2009 12:46

Whatever you do, don't get into a discussion with your employer about their sickness policy today. Your situation today has nothing whatsoever to do with that, and you need to have that crystal clear in your head.

What you're asking for is emergency leave for dependents, and it's a legal requirement that they provide you with that and that they don't penalise you for it (although it will be unpaid).

Have a look here - from BERR's web site

www.berr.gov.uk/files/file41731.pdf

Original poster

Saltire · 09/03/2009 14:27

Sorry, I went back to bed with DS2. I couldn't speak to my actual team manager, so spoke ot one of the others (much nicer woman) she said did I want to take today as my day off, and therefore wouldn't lose any pay, so I said yes, and then she said to give her a ring tomorrow (y mananger on hols) and if DS2 is still no better I can have another day off.

It's when I go back that the probs will occur, as they have this back to work interview policy, so will see if they take me in and give me a warning!
Thanks for all the advice

OP posts:

llareggub · 09/03/2009 14:44

saltire you should only have a return to work interview if you are actually off sick. You aren't. The reason for absence is emergency dependents leave, not sickness. So no interview, no warning, no SSP.

I hope DS2 is feeling better.

Original poster

Saltire · 09/03/2009 15:06

llareggub - I can assure you the last time I had a day off when DS2 was ill, I had a back to work interview and given a warning, that was in Nov 2007. Then when I had to go home early one day becasue Ds1 was ill, I was told "you can go but you have to make the hours up"

OP posts:

Ivykaty44 · 09/03/2009 15:16

You don't have to make up the hours - you can but they cant force you to do so.

I would keep a note book and get your union involved to start telling them what they are doing is wrong.

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