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Original poster

anyone have experience of family law?

24 replies

breaghsmum · 15/02/2009 18:36

ok, to cut a long story short, my partner's parents have weekly contact with our son arranged through a court order. this itself has not been without problems however more recently my son (3.5) has informed me that he has been left with other people both in the grandparents home and in another person's home. the 1st time was when they left him with their two daughters whilst they attended a funeral. at the time i requested that i be informed before they leave him with anyone other than themselves. i got no response to this. however this weekend my son told me that he was left with their daughters boyfriend at his house while the grandparents and daughter went away somewhere. he didnt know where. i have never met this boy/man and dont even know his surname. my son has mentioned him before and the fact that he has been at his house, he has also returned with toys that he says this person gave him. really the advice im looking for is whether i am within my rights to disallow this in future. i dont want my son to be left with people i dont know as i would never do this myself. can i do anything legally that will forbid this. the fact that i am not informed of this suggests that they know i wouldnt allow it. if anyone can shed any light i will be most grateful.

OP posts:

cfc · 15/02/2009 20:47

Do you have an Order from the Court setting out the terns of Contact?

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 15/02/2009 20:50

I'm not a legal type, but I don't see that there's anything you can do about this. If you were "informed" that your son's gps were planning to leave him with someone else, what would you propose to do with this information? Run background checks?

I'm sorry and I can see that you're distressed about this, but unless you have reason to believe that your ds is actually at risk from certain people you're going to have to accept that there are other people in his life who presumably love him even if they don't treat him exactly the same way you do.

KingCanuteIAm · 15/02/2009 20:52

I think you could request that all childcarers are people who are suitably qualified but they do not have to agree.

Your only option then would be to go back to court and request it but you would have to show that your child is being put in harms way for them to take you seriously.

If it were an ExP then the court would basicaly tell you that contact time is controlled by the person the contact is with and you do not have the right (except in exceptional circs.) to dictate what they do or who they do it with. I don't think contact with a GP would be any different tbh.

ilovemydogandMrObama · 15/02/2009 20:57

They have unsupervised contact, but perhaps you may wish to consider applying for supervised contact at a contact centre?

This would be based on the fact that they are leaving the children with strangers.

ALternatively, you may wish to ask for the Contact order to be varied and that the GPs don't leave your DS with others during a Contact visit.

Original poster

breaghsmum · 15/02/2009 21:40

ok thanks for all responses, i had presumed that as it was the grandparents that had applied and been granted the contact that this would mean that one or both would have to be present during the contact period. as the contact is granted on the basis that the court sees it as beneficial to my son to have regular contact with them, i cant imagine that leaving him with someone else is doing anything for my sons relationship with his grandparents. would it be advisable to speak to grandparents requesting that this doesnt happen again or should i seek legal advise? i understand that contact with a parent is controlled by the parent but as a grandparent has no parental responsibility, i dont feel they should be making decisions as to who my son is left unsupervised with.

OP posts:

KingCanuteIAm · 15/02/2009 21:54

You may be right, it is worth asking your legal adviser about it but I suspect that the court would not like it unless it happens every time they have contact (ie they are not actually having any contact at all) or they are making very bad choices about the carer.

scrooged · 15/02/2009 21:58

How did your partners parents manage to get contact through a court order?

Original poster

breaghsmum · 15/02/2009 21:58

i have been dealing with it myself as i could no longer afford the solicitor but it sounds like i would be wasting money going back to court anyway. i shall have a quiet word with grandparents and hope to appeal to their better nature. im sure they can understand my concern.

OP posts:

Original poster

breaghsmum · 15/02/2009 22:03

scrooged they saw him weekly from he was around six months old however relations between us werent good and it all came to a head when they threatened my cousin and her friend ( both aged 12) simply because they saw them and knew that one of them (they werent sure which) was related to me. as a result of this a harrasment order was taken out against them by my cousin and i stopped my son going as i didnt think he should be around that sort of aggression. so they left it another six months and then decided they wanted to see him again, they went to court to do it so now theres a court order.

OP posts:

scrooged · 15/02/2009 22:13

Grandparents have no legal rights at all to see their grandchildren though, this seems very odd to me. Parents have a right, not grandparents. You can apply for a prohibition order, prohibiting them from doing one thing, in this case, leaving your son with someone else if you wish. You can do this yourself, just collect the form from the court.

KingCanuteIAm · 15/02/2009 22:21

Scrooged, applying for it does not mean it will be granted. Courts have to hear something better than "because I don't know them" or "I don't like it". Also I suspect you could prohibit them from leaving him with a person not with any people. It would be too sweeping a term for a prohibition order.

Do you think they will listen to reason? (I have to say from your post I have my doubts) could you offer to do the childcare on days that are their contact days if required?

Original poster

breaghsmum · 15/02/2009 22:28

i agree with you KINGCANUTEIAM i doubt that they will listen to reason, but from what im hearing it sounds like my best option, i have to try something. i dont think its a case of them needing childcare, neither of them work. i will suggest that if they are unable to be with him for any reason that they simply leave him with me, that obviously wouldnt be a problem for me, however, it wouldnt appeal to them to allow me any of 'their' time with him.

scrooged the court said that as a relationship was already established ie; weekly visits, then it would be in my sons best interests for this to continue.

OP posts:

KingCanuteIAm · 15/02/2009 22:33

I am trying to think of ways to sell the idea to them, I can't think of much exceot to offer to allow them to swap days if they nee the childcare on "their" day IYSWIM. However, I think this would leav you rathervunerable to being messed around and taken advantage of.

Original poster

breaghsmum · 15/02/2009 22:42

i will gladly offer alternate days i have done it in the past when it hasnt suited them, i would rather that than my son be left with strangers. the thing that is bothering me is that, will they actually swallow their pride and ask me to change days if they havent in the past. or will i keep hearing from my son that he has been left with someone, and if i do keep hearing from him, is there anything i can do about it? it seems not. i had assumed as a parent i would have ultimate say over who is alone with my son, it is very scary to find that i have no control over it. i hope and pray that these people are sure of this persons character. too many children are hurt by what are supposed to be friends of families and for that reason i allow him only to be with my own parents. except when in creche or nursery school. it is my responsibility to protect my son and it feels as though i am being told i have no right to do it. apologies for the long post but this situation is causing me great concern.

OP posts:

KingCanuteIAm · 15/02/2009 22:46

I am sure it is concerning, I have a similar problem with exh and was shocked to find out that I cannot refuse to allow my child lone contact with people who were (but are not now) on the SOF. The system is difficult to say the least and you are most likely to get what you wnat with negotiation rather than action IME.

Original poster

breaghsmum · 15/02/2009 22:51

how horrendous, you cant protect your children from a known sex offender??? has the system gone mad?? actually i know it has. thank you for your advice KING. he doesnt have to see them again until next monday i shall have a serious think about how i word it but it seems i will have to speak directly to them and hope they understand why i am concerned. i hope you can find a resolution to your problem as that is my worst nightmare and exactly what i dont want my son to come across.

OP posts:

KingCanuteIAm · 15/02/2009 22:58

I hope you do get your situation resolved, iti s frustrating at best and frightening at worst. Do you know that hey will make bad choices or do you just fear they will? My problem is that I know he could make those choices again which leaves me in fear all the time my dc is there (yes the sysstem is mad IMO too!). It would be nice if you could at least get some kind of confidence in their choices, it will be helpful in th e longer term too as I guess this relationship will endure for a while longer yet!

KingCanuteIAm · 15/02/2009 22:58

BM, a known former SO - in the eyes of the law all is forgiven

Original poster

breaghsmum · 15/02/2009 23:21

their own daughter was molested by her grandmothers' partner as a child, the grandmother continued the relationship for many years after and all was forgiven by the family, and the victim and her siblings (including my partner) were allowed back to house unsupervised for overnight stays. this itself concerns me that they wouldnt want to prevent it happening again to their own child, it makes me think how much thought they give to who my son is left with and this is why i would rather they were present during contact.

OP posts:

KingCanuteIAm · 15/02/2009 23:28

Yes I can understand your concern absolutly in that case!

From a court POV though this would be hear-say and unproven...

maes me

Original poster

breaghsmum · 15/02/2009 23:34

i know, and as this person is no longer with the grandmother he poses no risk to my son. its the fact that the GPs would allow their own children to continue to visit that makes me question their choice in friends and how far someone needs to go before they consider them a risk. clearly quite far. the court told me that unless someone has made an actual threat to harm my son then i couldnt prevent them seeing him. next they'll be asking for threats in writing, and date on which they intend ti carry out threats.!!!!!

OP posts:

KingCanuteIAm · 15/02/2009 23:37

That about sums the whole situation up for me too, I cannot do anything until either, something has happened or I can prove something will happen...

mumoverseas · 16/02/2009 07:31

I agree with Ilovemydog.
The whole point of a contact order it to provide contact between the parties applying for it and the child/children. It is not supposed to provide contact for other parties.
If they will not agree to make alternative arrangements (ie swop contact visits if they are not seeing your DS) then you should consider taking it back to Court and seeking defined contact, ie set times that the GP's see your DS with restrictions that he should not simply be dumped with other unknown third parties.

Original poster

breaghsmum · 16/02/2009 20:08

thanks mumoverseas, i will speak to them myself first of all, if that doesnt change anything i shall go back to the court.

OP posts:

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