Totally biased, one-sided, divorce planning advice suggestions requested (long, sorry).

[therighttime]

Now is not the right time for me to petition for a divorce but that time will come in the next year or so.

H will not go to relate or even talk about divorce or the state of our marriage except to throw some accusation at me about how it's my fault because I should do X or be more Y and that I'm a rubbish, short cutting, lazy mother. I'm not going to go into details to more than prove otherwise to you guys but I have confidence in myself and my ability to raise the children in much the same fashion as I am doing now but with H living somewhere else and having pretty much unlimited access. The strain of not having to keep up a friendly show with him every day, for the children's sake will be a blessed relief.

As soon as H realises how serious I am that this is going to happen I am 99.9% sure that he will make life very difficult for me in achieving that goal. He has in the past given me the impression that he will pay the minimum he can get away with as he knows that I earn a good salary even taking childcare costs into account (which he considers to be my costs alone ). I know he will make me go through the CSA and delay things as much as possible, he has talked about this having been a good tactic of one of his work colleagues. He will nitpick and wriggle every step of the way, knowing that the children are not suffering financially as I can pretty well support them myself. The thing that will suffer will be my long term financial position as I will be using all my earnings to support us whilst he is able to save and make pension payments etc etc.

At the moment I deal with all of our financial stuff which is all in joint names except one ISA in his sole name, H barely looks at our monthly bank statement, our mortgage will be paid off in about 2 years. He leaves all of the household stuff to me, DIY, tradesmen, finance, getting the cars serviced etc. just expects it to get done and moans when it isn't sorted out. I wouldn't mind but I work outside the home too.

It would therefore be easy for me to start planning financially for his siege mentality kicking in when I start divorce proceedings in a year or so.

I feel that morally repugnant as it is to be even thinking of doing this, it is something that will enable me to let his warlike attitude to a divorce and ensuing financial siege mentality tactics wash over me when "the smelly brown stuff hits the poor mans air conditioning". I will be calmer and less mentally consumed over the whole battle which must be better for the children, no ?

Unless he would reconsider serious relate sessions, our marriage is dead so the trusting each other issue is somewhat irrelevant.

I have so far only thought about substantially raising my personal pension contributions which come from our joint acount and opening a secret savings account into which I pay as much cash as I think won't be missed from the joint account, over the next year or so.

So, what else can I do ? I realise that this all sounds money grabbing and horrible but if only I could show people his daily verbal treatment of me and undermining comments and behaviour which would have sent a mousy sort of lady over the edge by now, plus the aggressive language and domineering/argumentative/nitpicking attitude over everything, you would understand where I am coming from although possibly not my decision to stick it out for possibly 18 months to 2 years. I believe that sooner or later it will be more and more noticeable to the children so I have a limit on how long I can keep up the facade as I don't want them to be affected by this any more than necessary although I realise that there are never any guarantees over that.

If you've read all of this, thanks

Any suggestions for more planning tactics, finacial or otherwise ?

Hi, just been reading through your thread and wish I'd had time to plan it all like you have. Your very lucky you at the stage where the mortgage will be paid off in the next couple of years. If you decide to let the CSA sort out the child maintenance then I think there is more opportunity for H to mess yoy around. Have you seeked legal advice? I have included all financial arrangements in the consent order which is something you could do as it is a document sealed by the court. Your H may argue that you have good earnings etc but he will have to contribute for the DCs and you can apply for spousal maintenance. He cannot force you sell the house until the DCs turn 18 or leave full time education. I would recommend you speak to a solicitor to clarify everything, some offer a low fixed fee for the first meeting.

Staying in the family home would hopfully minimise the effect on the children. I'd assumed that I 'd have to buy his half share by re-mortgaging the property to give him funds to buy elsewhere. If I had mortgage payments on top of childcare we'd have to be very careful with our pennies and it wold be esential that he was forced to pay maintenance for them but I have simply no idea how much that would be likely to be.

A court document does sound a bit more binding than the CSA's efforts to chase men who simply don't want to pay.

H may however go abroad as I know he has frequent thoughts of emigrating, he'd have no problem getting work.

It's very underhand and wrong.

But tbh, in the situation you describe....I'd do it. I'll be honest. I would.

I'd be as underhanded as possible, too.

And I wouldn't feel guilty about it, either.

You're a mama lionness with a family to protect.

Think of it that way and do what you've gotta do.

Don't bump up your pension payments as he will be entitled to half, just as you are entitled to half of his.

If I understand the OP rightly, this is about building up accessible funds and trying to gain control of the assets so that you can survive comfortably through a period when you predict he won't co-operate; if you don't do that, you and the DCs will be living hand-to-mouth whilst the finances are slowly sorted out, or at least you will take the hit of surviving that period by using up your own savings and resources.

A few practical points: Start taking copies of everything and store them away from home. Especially his payslips, details of all bank accounts and ISAs etc, his tax records, and any loans.
I don't think Sherbert is right, except inasmuch as your pension fund will almost certainly be a matrimonial asset just as his will. A fair financial settlement between you might involve pension transfers, or it might not. But if you think that during the 'siege' you will be unable to make contributions (might you even have to stop work for a while??) then I think it is perfectly valid to build up your contributions in advance. Likewise, a cash cushion is sensible, BUT you know how much risk there is of being caught, and he would try to twist it against you - eg no doubt he will allege (and probably believe) that you had no intention of declaring it but would try to 'steal' that cash from the joint funds. Maybe the way round this is to prepare a dated projected budget against which the cash accumulation would be set so you could show that you had earmarked the money for legitimate expenses.

Can you pay any substantial bills in advance? I'm not sure what, exactly, but eg get your car serviced, get school fees paid, that sort of thing, before you file for divorce.

just another thought - could you use joint cash to pay off the mortgage even earlier? then even if you have to remortgage to buy him out, it is possible this could be deferred until child maintenance is sorted out. Then the longer he is an arse, the longer he has to wait for his share of the equity...

Thanks expat, that's kind of the way I feel about it too. H will be thinking about trying to control the situation financially whereas I am looking to the future and wanting the children to notice hardly any difference financially at least until the dust settles.

OK so pension payments are not good.

If I'm hoping to stay in the family home could I overpay on the utility bills over the next year or so, would that be spotted in a nitpicky divorce.

Will I be asked to declare all bank accounts ? Should I perhaps put money in the kids savings accounts but remain as the sole parental signatory on them so that I can withdraw the extra after a divorce if I really need to.

I'm planning on taking out a family gym membership and paying the full year's fees in advance before I initiate proceedings. All the children's sports/other activity club fees could be paid in advance for say a term or so, out of joint funds at the same time.

Having thought about it I could get all of our passports renewed at the right time and perhaps have a serious planning session about any once a year costs that could be brought forward. My only concern is that H might want to have a forensic trawl through the joint bank statements with a solicitor, could any of this planning stuff land me in trouble ?

iheartdusty, I so hope we wouldn't be living hand to mouth but my salary alone would need to cover childcare and our living costs, I don't really know how much our lifestyle would be pegged down but I just don't want H's control issues to mean that we are self-sufficient with nothing left at then end of each month whilst he has a £50,000 salary all to himself until such time as he is forced, if ever, to pay maintenance. If he is unwittingly paying some of our initial post divorce living costs upfront before the divorce, that would help.

It would still be financially worthwhile me working.

I fear that the longer he has to wait for money to buy a separate property the longer he will want to stay in the family home.

One thing I have seen suggested is to visit all the good divorce solicitors near you for an initial consultation. You may even be able to do this as a free initial appointment.

(a) this gives you a feel for them and which will be best for you
(b) (this is the sneaky and underhand bit) once they have advised you, they will be unable to advise your husband as that would be a conflict of interest (if they forget they've already seen you, you can point it out and they'll have to drop the case). This forces your husband to either look further afield or use a less good solicitor.

Do you get childcare vouchers via work to pay childcare expenses through a third-party company? If so, you can now start

• continuing to pay INTO the voucher account through salary deductions
• but not pay anything OUT of the voucher account
• switch to paying childcare out of regular bank accounts instead
• build up cushion of earmarked-for-childcare funds in the voucher account over the next year or two
• then when you split you've got a nice big wodge of money there to pay for childcare
• AND legally it's not your money (that's required for the tax relief to be legal) so I think will be ignored for the purposes of any financial settlement

You will be required to decaler all bank accounts so I would suggest that the sneaky way to do it is open two savings accounts, one for you and one for H. Pay equally into both so that, when it comes to totting things up, you should be able to keep everything in yours. (doing this means that the money is not available for him to withdraw and spend once he realises the lay of the land). Also keep the statements for his account so that he cannot whip the money out and claim it as a nil assett.

I think you should be ok with the pension if you keep it in line with his, if they are the same then it is likely that your solicitors will advise you both to keep your own to save administration and potential complications.

Get a good financial adviser.

Check out if you are allowed to do the thing with the kids accounts, I think you may come unstuck if it is clear that they suddenly have largish amounts when they didn't before.

Make sure anything you do is made to appear liek something you would do anyway. Courts do not like people trying to divert assetts and will come down on you if they get wind of it.

Oh, and look at using your annual gift allowence (I think £3000 per annum per adult) to gift money to your children. This can be put into a trust against future school/university fees and cannot be touched in a divorce.

This is one you could do openly with H to utilise his gift allowence and get more cash towards the cost of education (meaning less for you to worry about later)

justaboutindisguise

I suppose I have several reasons, the first one being that in the autumn it became obvious to me that my dad's battle with cancer would not extend his life beyond the next 18 months or so. I know he would be distressed to know that my marriage had fallen apart and I see no reason to rush into a divorce now if it can be postponed until after he has gone. My mum is more "on-line" as far as the subtle messages about the state of my marriage are I do not think she will be surprised and she is fairly practised at taking life's upheavals in her stride.

Secondly, I have put up with things the way they are for so long that I kind of feel that providing there is a plan even with a non specific implementation date at present, my state of mind will be improved. I will be working towards making things better. I don't want to be unprepared and find that H's financial strategy after I file for divorce leaves me worn out mentally and not fully concentrating on day to day life for the children.

If any underhand financial planning on my part gives me a head start I can then afford to be more laid back when H is in full on "we'll fight them on the beaches" mode and not have to give things so much headspace later when I will be wanting to watch over my cubs for signs of upset and thinking up strategies to deal with that rather than fighting the financial battle in minute detail.

H is in denial about the state of our marriage already, he effectively lies to himself. I find telling him everything about daily life leads to unnecessary nitpicking which actually truly benefits no-one so I'm already omitting to tell him certain things. Lying by omission if you like just to minimise hassle and time wasting over-analysing and blame apportioning and boy is he never ever wrong about anything so by default it must be me or the children.

King Canute

H has company pension into which both he and his employer pay. He also makes payments into a person pension. I will tot up the amounts and up my contributions to equal his.

We do contribute to the children's accounts but I might increase the amounts "to make up for the lower interest rates they are now earning" we also make a once a year birthday lump sum payment so I'll up that too.

I note the comment about savings accounts but he'll wonder why we need separate accounts so I might just "stash the cash" personally. I spend a lot less than him on clothes/gadgets/going out so I absolutely will not feel guilty about my little stash.

Interesting point about the annual gift allowance I suppose this covers the lump sum we put into the children's savings accounts.

PortandLemon

H would not hesitate to hire a hotshot solicitor from elsewhere over a local firm. Are we both responsible for our own solicitors fees ? It's sad to think that solicitors will take a chunk out of finances just to effectively mediate financially, although I fear they will be necessary. How confidential are solicitors ? Bear in mind we live in a small market town. I'd like to consult one now on a low key, fixed fee, payable out of the joint account without anyone really noticing kind of way but fear that would be a step to far morally. Perhaps I'll just disclose it later as part of the divorce proceedings.

The childcare suggestion is very helpful although I think our vouchers have a time limit on them.

It sounds as if your DH and you have substantial capital assets as well as income.

I don't think you are being in the least bit underhand and in your position I would see a solicitor and financial advisor RIGHT NOW and pay for proper advice on planning your divorce.

Ah. Ours only have a cut-off date of a year after you leave the company (I think) -- it all goes into a big pot with Care-4.

Solicitors who aren't confidential get struck off -- it's a very big no-no.

The solicitor might be confidential but my name would be in an appointment book somewhere, secretaries/receptionists/office juniors can gossip too IMHO. Not only that but I'm bound to bump into someone or be spotted by someone who knows me.

H wants/needs a new car soon, say £20,000+.

My car does far fewer miles p.a. than his and is effectively just mum's taxi for the kids and my transport to work. Will the difference in car values be evened out as part of the divorce settlement as I'd hate to divorce and then have my 8 year old car need major work/replacing whilst he swans round in a nearly new, luxury end of the market, car.

That's the sort of thing you need to ask a solicitor. Gossiping in office staff would also be looked upon in a very dim manner, but you could always consult a solicitor in the next town if that's a concern.

Possibly, but possibly not (the car). Do bear in mind though that there is a difference between being prepared and being greedy. If you think you need a new car then sort it out now.

Do not allow yourself to get sucked into "he has X but I only have Y" If you get a divorce then you will, most likely end up with less than him in the long run. He will have more to spend on cars/holidays etc. That is just the way it is and you will have to adapt to that.

What Canute said is very relevant - one of the mad expectations of divorce is that it's difficult to get over having less than you had as a couple as people may have had it for so long.

Unless you genuinely share all childcare and you earn as much as him you will always have less. Is that your aim - to share childcare totally with no primary parent?

When both parents work full time, shared childcare 50:50 is quite a good solution IME.

The car issue seems petty but if we replace H's car soon as planned he will have the use of a year old, large luxury car, worth £15,000+ at least (cost £20,000+ new). The children and I will have a 9 year old slightly dented, scratched in a few places small runaround worth a maximum of about £2,000+. Our car will need MOT'ing etc and is not suitable for weekends away as it doesn't have much luggage room. We don't need two large cars as long as we are together but once separated it is more of a problem. Is the £13,000 difference really too small to be worth mentioning to the solicitors once things are under way or is it really pathetic to want this taken into consideration.

If our cars were the other way round, trust me it would be a major gripe for him that he would want addressing as part of the divorce settlement but I'll "park" the car issue (pun intended) for now and save it as a counter argument to some nitpicky thing he brings up when the divorce is under way.

I'd better add sorting my car out with a full service, MOT, new tyres, licence disc and insurance etc prior to filing for divorce just in case the cars issue is not considered.

Yes, all maintainence is a good idea.

Don't forget an annual (paid up front) service package for you boiler/heating and warrenties or service plans for any electrical goods.