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Original poster

TV Licence - aaahhhh, just got caught, what do I do?

43 replies

Humpdebump · 09/02/2009 23:36

Ok, I am no angel and have avoided letters requesting me to pay this years tv licence. I have always paid it on time by Direct Debit but times have been v hard of late, I dont have a job, have x2 DS & DP works at badly paid job with recently reduced hours. In a nut shell - there were more important bills to pay first - gas, electric etc. Ironically we received our back dated housing benefit payment today, we had been waiting for this to start paying back our landlord, friends and overdue bills.
Anyway......tv licence man calls at door, I answered it eagerly expecting DS's birthday presents, face to face with Mr Licence who said to me ' I am from TV Licence and have come to arrange a Direct Debit'. I (very naively) thought, 'great, maybe we can come to some arrangement where we can start paying it off at like a fiver a month'. He filled in lots of details then I quickly got suspicious when he hurridly pointed out the legal schpeel (..anything you say might be used against you in a court of law). By this time I had said that we had a tv and I couldnt afford the payments on the licence just yet as we were skint ! DOH!
He went on that I could be prosecuted because I had admitted to watching a tv without a licence at which point I burst into floods of tears . But I couldnt help it, I NEVER cry, but so much has gone on recently and it was just too much.
TV Licence man said that its not up to him and the court decides who they will prosecute and fine could be reduced. Could even only be half price !! Oh what a relief...only 500 quid! WTF!!
Now I am quite scared, I know its only money but we really dont have any spare to pay off a fine. I have been trawling the internet for a few hours to find out what our fine will be and if there is any way to pay in installments without having to go to bloody prison!
Anyone have any experience of dealing with this and what the average fine for poor people is?
If my other half buys a licence does would make a difference as its not him that is being prosecuted?
I am so gutted this has happened. Am v. and worried. Cant believe this has effected me so much, I usually dont give a toss (hmm, maybe thats why I am in a mess now!)

OP posts:
whomovedmychocolate · 09/02/2009 23:44

Humpdebump - okay a few things. If the TV licence folks decide to prosecute (and they don't always though they might demand you pay your licence fee in full upfront for the year), you can point out you have always paid and that this is a lapse due to financial difficulties. It won't get you out of the fine but it will show the court you are not a persistent offender.

You will have to buy a licence anyway now so there is no reason not to do so immediately to show that this 'mistake' has been rectified.

If the court agrees you've just made a small error it can fine you as little as £150 (yes I know that's still a lot) but you will need to pay the licence as well as that!

FAQinglovely · 09/02/2009 23:46

hmm - if you can't afford the payments I'm 99% certain he should have offered you a cash easy card (think that's what they're called). Although that could just be given out to people on certain benefits - will have to check with DH - he'll know.

If you've agreed to get a licence then you shouldn't be prosecuted, of that I'm pretty sure.

whomovedmychocolate · 09/02/2009 23:47

I've just been reading a few TV forums on this - apparently if you get a licence within 10 days they don't often prosecute but just send you a very snotty letter. Can you afford to get a licence now (even if you pay by installments you will still have a licence?)

FAQinglovely · 09/02/2009 23:48

he certainly shouldn't have been railroading you into the direct debits - he's only done that as apart from cash payments (of the full amount) DD licence "sales" give the next highest bonus.

Original poster
Humpdebump · 09/02/2009 23:55

Thanks mumsnetters. Yes, I can afford to pay licence now as have just had housing allowance back payment which I'm supposed to pay to my landlord, but will pay licence first if it will get me out of a fine. (landlord knows of my present financial situation and is quite understanding so he will wait for further money). So is there definite legal terms that will allow me to pay within 10 days without being prosecuted? Licence man did give me a cash easy card but said it wouldnt get me out of being prosecuted.

OP posts:
FAQinglovely · 09/02/2009 23:57

I'm pretty sure that's nonsense what he said to you.......

I can check with DH tomorrow, sounds like you had a bullying fool visit you today.

Original poster
Humpdebump · 09/02/2009 23:58

Thanks mumsnetters. Yes I can afford to pay now as got housing allowance back payment today, (supposed to be for rent but landlord knows of present financial situation and is understanding and will wait).
Man offered me a cash card but said it wont neccessarily get me out of being prosecuted. would be v. interested to know if there is any definite legal terms saying that would not be fined if pay within 10 days. Licence man didnt mention that.

OP posts:
kylesmyloveheart · 09/02/2009 23:58

but doesnt that mean that no-one has to bother getting a tv licence. just wait till they come to the door (which can take years if my neighbours are anything to go by) and then if you pay within 10 days its all fine and dandy?

Stretch · 10/02/2009 00:35

For the sake of £12 a month, I wouldn't want the hassle Kyles

dutchmanswife · 10/02/2009 08:59

Have a look at this website. It should help a bit. In future don't communicate with anybody from TVL. They can't prosecute without your co-operation so don't admit anything. It's also worth remembering that they have targets to meet so they'll be doing they're best get a prosecution rather than be sympathetic to you.

www.tvlicensing.biz/

FAQinglovely · 10/02/2009 09:01

no they have targets for sales of licence. That's where the sales and enforcement officers earn their money from getting people to buy their licence.

As she hasn't refused to buy one I'm pretty sure that the visiting officer was just trying to scare her.

SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore · 10/02/2009 09:08

Oh you should have pleaded ignornace which is what I did.

tv woman "do you know you don't have a valid tv liscence?"
me "No I thought I had paid it all this year as they stopped taking the direct debit"
tv woman "okay we will just set that back up again for you"

FAQinglovely · 10/02/2009 17:29

right ok - iformation from the "inside"

it could go to court

basically

when you get the court form don't fill in the means form - they could charge you a bigger fine or if you're on benefits take it out of there on a weekly/monthly basis. Don't go to court to contest it - it'll make you "stand out" among the 50-150 or so other cases.

Unless there's a history of not paying, then not paying, (which it doesn't sound like there is now) then just leave it (ie don't even go to court) and let it go through the system £100-150 is probably the maximum you could be forced to pay.

southeastastra · 10/02/2009 17:33

bloody ridiculous that we have to pay this anyway. sorry for your hasslen hump

Original poster
Humpdebump · 11/02/2009 12:48

Thanks again for the advice. After reading the above and trawling the internet it does appear that the worse off you are then the more they come down on you with a fine and personal financial situations are not taken into account. Flipping ridiculous. DP called up to arrange a payment plan with them, they didn't mention prosecution (although I realise thats not to say its not going to happen).
Interestingly, I refused to sign the declaration the licence man was waving at me saying that it was a true record of our conversation, so based on all the above advise I wonder if that means I didnt co-operate with them therefore they cant prosecute? Lets see what happens...

OP posts:
FAQinglovely · 11/02/2009 12:52

yes - I think that's because a lot of people who are badly off fill in the means form that comes with the court summons (should TVL decide to prosecute, some areas of the country they prosecute a lot, others very little), and also go to court to appeal. That makes them stand out (when they're going through 50-150 cases in a morning and you're standing up appealing while the rest are just read out and stamped) so judges more likely to bump the fine up.

The minimum is £65 (or at least that's what my very reliable source thinks it is - as that's the standard court fee) - most people for a first offence (ie you have't been trying to play the system and mess them around before now) get a maximum of £100-150 fine - unless they send in the means form and then if they're on benefits they'll apparently whack the fine up a bit and have it taken straight from them!

pageturner · 11/02/2009 12:59

Can I just say I really wouldn't advise not turning up to court or not filling in the means form. I'm a magistrate and if there's no info on means we assume £350 pw and take it from there.

TheOtherMaryPoppinsDiets · 11/02/2009 13:04

I got caught about 10 years ago, single parent on benefits and other bills were just more important. I had to beg borrow steal the cash to go and get a licence that very day- and when it went to court ( I attended) was treated very harshly I felt, like a burglar or something, anyway upshot of it was I got fined £800

Just be aware it can happen, they often will make "examples" of people. Let's just hope it's not your turn

FAQinglovely · 11/02/2009 13:05

page - average fine for the SE with no means form and no appearance is apparently £150.

Appearance and no means form - about £250 - and means form and appearance about £350 plus.

FAQinglovely · 11/02/2009 13:06

as the use the "means" form as proof that you have a regular income (even if it is a pittancE) and then swipe stupid amounts off it each week to pay an increased fine amount as they know they'll get the money.

pageturner · 11/02/2009 13:07

Sorry, FAQ, have to disagree! Someone who turns up to court will get a much better hearing than someone who doesn't bother...well, they do in my court. The fines are set by bands which are based on relevant weekly income. If you're on benefits that would be £100 pw (we don't go lower than that. For TV licence payment evasion, it's a Band A fine if it's under 6 months and band B if over 6 months. If you don't turn up, your RWI will be assumed to be £350, so the Band A fine would be £350, band B would be £175. If you're on benefits that's going to be £100 or £50. And it'll look a lot better if you show your face, say sorry and demonstrate that you have bought a licence promptly. particularly in the current climate, if you pled financial pressure you'd get a sympathetic hearing and we'd probably reduce costs or waive them all together.

pageturner · 11/02/2009 13:09

X-post.

Don't know how old your info is, FAQ, but the court fine system was overhauled and made much more structured about 6 months ago.

VinegarTits · 11/02/2009 13:14

I got caught years ago, i didnt turn up at court and got fined £125, i was a single mum on benefits at the time

FAQinglovely · 11/02/2009 13:15

my info is very fresh info - you must be a nice court then - as the info I has says they'd rather just read out and stamp the 100 odd forms rather than sit and have to listen to sob stories (which they mostly don't buy anyhow).

Also depends on non pament history - if there's a long histor of paying, then not paying and repeatedly trying to evade them fine will be higher.

FAQinglovely · 11/02/2009 13:16

oh actually - sorry just forgot about something - minimum would be court fee plus the fee they pay to the TVL company for "catching" them (about £15 which is a joke really as it's costs a hell of a lot more than that LOL).